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Sprint bikes

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Cycling Equipment
Published
26 July 2006
Last activity
31 July 2006
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Jenny Brien
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  1. Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent beat
    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    Quoted message said:

    From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in which


    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar ability.
    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in 200.
    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial acceleration
    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when he
    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

  2. Jenny Brien said:

    Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent beat
    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    Quoted message said:

    From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in which


    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar ability.
    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in 200.
    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial acceleration
    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when he
    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

    Dear Jenny,

    When Owens beat a horse, it was partly because he was one the the
    world's greatest sprinters and partly a variation of an old gambler's
    trick:

    "There's no way a man can beat a horse, even over 100 yards," he
    [Owens] explained. "The secret is, first, get a thoroughbred because
    they are the most nervous animals on earth. Then get the biggest gun
    you can and make sure the starter fires that big gun right by the
    nervous thoroughbred's ear. By the time the jockey gets the horse
    settled down, I could cover about 50 yards and win, which I did."

    Chided for "stooping" to such a level, he replied: "People said it was
    degrading. I had four gold medals but I couldn't eat them. I had to do
    what I could and there weren't any of the benefits they have today,
    particularly for people of my color."

    http://6news.kusports.com/news/columns/story/110938

    Something similar is likely to be true of a faired bicycle--given an
    equal start, the bicycle is unlikely to have any chance.

    Olympic sprinters reach about 27 mph around 70 meters down the track
    in the 100-meter dash.

    The Kentucky Derby record for the 1st quarter-mile (1320 feet) is just
    under 22 seconds--an average of 40.9 mph from a standing start:

    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kyderbyhorses1.html

    And that's with a full mile left to go.

    The world record for a flying 500 meters for a diamond frame is 26.7
    seconds--an average of 42.0 mph from a flying start for 1640 feet:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/records.html

    A faired recumbent is heavier, so it's not going to accelerate even as
    well as an ordinary bike from a dead stop. Typically, they have very
    high gearing and take up to five miles to reach top speed for a short
    speed trap.

    As for a sprinter against a bicycle, the distance will be fairly
    short, as you suppose. After about 70 meters, sprinters slow down from
    about 25-27 mph, while the bicycle is still accelerating to a steady
    speed over 30 mph.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  3. Jenny Brien said:

    Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent beat
    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    Quoted message said:

    From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in which


    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar ability.
    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in 200.
    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial acceleration
    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when he
    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

    Ya ever notice that the drug dealers all ride chrome BMX bikes? It isn't just
    the bling factor. Even a mountain bike has a higher top speed, but it's the only
    bike that has a chance against a man on foot from a standing start. Give the
    BMXer ten yard and he's ahead of the runner and gone.

    Ron

  4. "Jenny Brien" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent beat
    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    Quoted message said:

    From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in which


    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar ability.
    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in 200.
    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial acceleration
    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when he
    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

    Just for some numbers.... Current world class track sprinters do 1000m in
    very close to 60s from a standing start. Not sure about split times, but I
    bet they're out there somewhere.

    Skippy
    E&OE

  5. Quoted message said:

    "There's no way a man can beat a horse, even over 100 yards," he
    [Owens] explained.

    Unless, of course, that man is on a bicycle. And the course is
    longer than a mile.

    The fastest land animal over 3 miles is a breed of dog called the
    Saluki. Over a mile course, they have been measured to run at up to
    33 mph.

    Compare that to Dave Zabriskie's speed in last year's TdF prologue:
    34 mph over 12 miles. No contest.

    The finest cyclists have a mass scaled VO2 max of about 90, only
    about 60% that of a thoroughbred horse. But since a running horse is
    much less efficient than a cyclist on a TT bike, the horse wouldn't
    stand a chance over a long enough course.

    --
    terry morse - Undiscovered Country Tours - http://udctours.com

  6. On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:55:49 -0700, Terry Morse <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "There's no way a man can beat a horse, even over 100 yards," he
    [Owens] explained.

    Unless, of course, that man is on a bicycle. And the course is
    longer than a mile.

    The fastest land animal over 3 miles is a breed of dog called the
    Saluki. Over a mile course, they have been measured to run at up to
    33 mph.

    Compare that to Dave Zabriskie's speed in last year's TdF prologue:
    34 mph over 12 miles. No contest.

    The finest cyclists have a mass scaled VO2 max of about 90, only
    about 60% that of a thoroughbred horse. But since a running horse is
    much less efficient than a cyclist on a TT bike, the horse wouldn't
    stand a chance over a long enough course.

    Dear Terry,

    When Owens said "even over 100 yards," he meant even as short as 100
    yards. As a sprinter, he obviously had no interest in bicycles.

    You may want to check some details on fastest land animals.

    If a Saluki does only 33 mph for a mile, the dog has little chance
    against a race horse in a mile race, much less a 3 mile race.

    Horses rarely race over any but the shorter standard distances, but a
    century ago there was more variety. Churchill Downs has kept excellent
    records since 1872.

    The track record for 1 mile is 1:35.8, or 37.6 mph, almost 5 mph
    faster than the dog for the same distance--and that's carrying a
    rider.

    The track record for 3 miles is 5:35, or 32.24 mph, almost the same as
    claimed for the dog for three times as far, again with a rider.

    http://www.fairgroundsracecourse.com/racing_information/todays_race_card/track_records.html

    Pronghorns, a common sight near Pueblo, can reach 60 mph in a sprint
    and will run for miles at over 30 mph, stopping only to crawl under
    barb-wire fences. They're escaping from the cheetahs now extinct in
    North America.

    No other animal can catch an adult pronghorn in good health. People
    have tried all sorts of exotic dogs over the last century, without
    success.

    Indeed, you need a good camera or a car just to get close enough to
    see how silly the stocky little animals look, running like crazy with
    their tongue dangling out one side of their mouth.

    I clocked one last month at a steady 30 mph down a dirt road for a
    quarter mile. It wasn't trying to outrun my car at all, not even hard
    enough for its tongue to hang out in that odd fashion. It was just
    trotting along, looking for a good spot to swerve and crawl under the
    fence to join its two friends.

    You may also want to look into ostrich speed. They're usually credited
    with over 30 mph for long distances.

    A Zabriskie over a course in excess of three miles stands a good
    chance against a race horse--again, as long as the horse carries 120
    pounds of rider and saddle.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  7. Skippy said:


    Just for some numbers.... Current world class track sprinters do 1000m in
    very close to 60s from a standing start. Not sure about split times, but I
    bet they're out there somewhere.


    Just at a rough estimate. Times for a flying 1k are about 3 seconds
    faster. If a track sprinter could get to full speed within 100 metres
    then I'd expect him to do it from a standstill in about 9 seconds (6
    seconds 'flying' time and an extra 3 to get up to speed). However,
    most track sprinters seem to be still out of the saddle long past that
    point, which is why I think beating a runner over that distance would
    be tough. Maybe with a small-wheel bike and a 50' gear?

    200 metres is a different story. By the same calculation, if (as is
    likely) he reaches top speed by then, he will get there is about 15
    seconds - five faster than the runner!

    That's just a better guess, though.

  8. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jenny Brien said:

    Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent


    beat

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    Quoted message said:

    From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in


    which

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar


    ability.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in


    200.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial


    acceleration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

    Dear Jenny,

    When Owens beat a horse, it was partly because he was one the the
    world's greatest sprinters and partly a variation of an old gambler's
    trick:

    "There's no way a man can beat a horse, even over 100 yards," he
    [Owens] explained. "The secret is, first, get a thoroughbred because
    they are the most nervous animals on earth. Then get the biggest gun
    you can and make sure the starter fires that big gun right by the
    nervous thoroughbred's ear. By the time the jockey gets the horse
    settled down, I could cover about 50 yards and win, which I did."

    Chided for "stooping" to such a level, he replied: "People said it was
    degrading. I had four gold medals but I couldn't eat them. I had to do
    what I could and there weren't any of the benefits they have today,
    particularly for people of my color."

    http://6news.kusports.com/news/columns/story/110938

    Something similar is likely to be true of a faired bicycle--given an
    equal start, the bicycle is unlikely to have any chance.

    Olympic sprinters reach about 27 mph around 70 meters down the track
    in the 100-meter dash.

    The Kentucky Derby record for the 1st quarter-mile (1320 feet) is just
    under 22 seconds--an average of 40.9 mph from a standing start:

    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kyderbyhorses1.html

    And that's with a full mile left to go.

    The world record for a flying 500 meters for a diamond frame is 26.7
    seconds--an average of 42.0 mph from a flying start for 1640 feet:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/records.html

    A faired recumbent is heavier, so it's not going to accelerate even as
    well as an ordinary bike from a dead stop. Typically, they have very
    high gearing and take up to five miles to reach top speed for a short
    speed trap.

    As for a sprinter against a bicycle, the distance will be fairly
    short, as you suppose. After about 70 meters, sprinters slow down from
    about 25-27 mph, while the bicycle is still accelerating to a steady
    speed over 30 mph.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    The All-American Futurity at Ruidoso Downs Racetrack in New Mexico is
    the world's richest Quarter Horse race with a total purse of $2 million.
    It's a straight quarter mile drag race.

    Quarter horses are commonly believed to be the world's fastest horses
    over short distances, some having been clocked at 55 mph.

    Ride on.....

    Chas.

  9. Jenny Brien said:
    Skippy said:

    Just for some numbers.... Current world class track sprinters do 1000m in
    very close to 60s from a standing start. Not sure about split times, but I
    bet they're out there somewhere.


    Just at a rough estimate. Times for a flying 1k are about 3 seconds
    faster. If a track sprinter could get to full speed within 100 metres
    then I'd expect him to do it from a standstill in about 9 seconds (6
    seconds 'flying' time and an extra 3 to get up to speed). However,
    most track sprinters seem to be still out of the saddle long past that
    point, which is why I think beating a runner over that distance would
    be tough. Maybe with a small-wheel bike and a 50' gear?

    200 metres is a different story. By the same calculation, if (as is
    likely) he reaches top speed by then, he will get there is about 15
    seconds - five faster than the runner!

    That's just a better guess, though.

    There are splits available on the web.
    For ex, 2006 Commonwealth Games:
    <http://www.melbourne2006.com.au/Schedule+and+Results/By+Sport/Cycling+Track/>
    click on the 500m and 1km results.
    Anna Meares did 19.355 sec for 250m split and 34.326 sec for 500m.
    Ben Kersten did 18.357 sec for 250m split and 1:01.815 for 1000m.

    The world record for 200m (running) sprint is 19.32sec,
    Michael Johnson. It's safe to say Meares could beat that since
    her split was for 250m.

  10. RonSonic said:


    Ya ever notice that the drug dealers all ride chrome BMX bikes? It isn't just
    the bling factor. Even a mountain bike has a higher top speed, but it's the only
    bike that has a chance against a man on foot from a standing start. Give the
    BMXer ten yard and he's ahead of the runner and gone.

    Ron

    Obviously it's the chrome plating bling that does the trick.

    John

  11. Quoted message said:

    You may want to check some details on fastest land animals.

    If a Saluki does only 33 mph for a mile, the dog has little chance
    against a race horse in a mile race, much less a 3 mile race.

    Other sources put Saluki speed at up to 43 mph.

    Quoted message said:

    Pronghorns, a common sight near Pueblo, can reach 60 mph in a sprint
    and will run for miles at over 30 mph, stopping only to crawl under
    barb-wire fences. They're escaping from the cheetahs now extinct in
    North America.

    No other animal can catch an adult pronghorn in good health. People
    have tried all sorts of exotic dogs over the last century, without
    success.

    Apparently correct, here's another source:

    "The pronghorn antelope of western United States has maintained 60
    mph for two miles and 36 mph for 27 miles."

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/200-299/nb215.htm

    That's an impressive performance. I wonder what their VO2 max is,
    but it would be hard to test them for that.
    --
    terry morse - Undiscovered Country Tours - http://udctours.com/

  12. On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:54:40 -0700, Terry Morse <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You may want to check some details on fastest land animals.

    If a Saluki does only 33 mph for a mile, the dog has little chance
    against a race horse in a mile race, much less a 3 mile race.

    Other sources put Saluki speed at up to 43 mph.

    Quoted message said:

    Pronghorns, a common sight near Pueblo, can reach 60 mph in a sprint
    and will run for miles at over 30 mph, stopping only to crawl under
    barb-wire fences. They're escaping from the cheetahs now extinct in
    North America.

    No other animal can catch an adult pronghorn in good health. People
    have tried all sorts of exotic dogs over the last century, without
    success.

    Apparently correct, here's another source:

    "The pronghorn antelope of western United States has maintained 60
    mph for two miles and 36 mph for 27 miles."

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/200-299/nb215.htm

    That's an impressive performance. I wonder what their VO2 max is,
    but it would be hard to test them for that.

    Dear Terry,

    Well, they're equipped to move a lot of air through their lungs . . .

    A common observation while skinning and cleaning deceased pronghorns,
    which weigh only about 75 to 150 pounds, is that a baseball bat will
    fit down their windpipes.

    They're tasty, too:

    "At the Green River [Utah] station we had breakfast--hot biscuits,
    fresh antelope steaks, and coffee--the only decent meal we tasted
    between the United States and Great Salt Lake City, and the only one
    we were ever really thankful for."

    "Think of the monotonous execrableness of the thirty that went before
    it, to leave this one simple breakfast looming up in my memory like a
    shot-tower after all these years have gone by!"

    --"Roughing It" Chapter XII

    The same antelope steaks were glorified in purple prose by a New York
    Times writer a decade or so later, when Twain was writing "Roughing
    It" and the railroad had replaced the stagecoach:

    "At 4.20 P.M., Sunday, we rolled out of the station at Omaha, and
    started westward on our long jaunt. A couple of hours out, dinner was
    announced--an "event" to those of us who had yet to experience what it
    is to eat in one of Pullman's hotels on wheels; so, stepping into the
    car next forward of our sleeping palace, we found ourselves in the
    dining-car. It was a revelation to us, that first dinner on Sunday.
    And though we continued to dine for four days, and had as many
    breakfasts and suppers, our whole party never ceased to admire the
    perfection of the arrangements, and the marvelous results achieved.
    Upon tables covered with snowy linen, and garnished with services of
    solid silver, Ethiop waiters, flitting about in spotless white, placed
    as by magic a repast at which Delmonico himself could have had no
    occasion to blush; and, indeed, in some respects it would be hard for
    that distinguished chef to match our menu; for, in addition to all
    that ordinarily makes up a first-chop dinner, had we not our antelope
    steak (the gormand who has not experienced this --bah! what does he
    know of the feast of fat things?) our delicious mountain-brook trout,
    and choice fruits and berries, and (sauce piquant and unpurchasable!)
    our sweet-scented, appetite-compelling air of the prairies?"

    --"Roughing It" Chapter IV

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  13. email hidden said:
    Jenny Brien said:
    Skippy said:

    Just for some numbers.... Current world class track sprinters do 1000m in
    very close to 60s from a standing start. Not sure about split times, but I
    bet they're out there somewhere.


    There are splits available on the web.
    For ex, 2006 Commonwealth Games:
    <http://www.melbourne2006.com.au/Schedule+and+Results/By+Sport/Cycling+Track/>
    click on the 500m and 1km results.
    Anna Meares did 19.355 sec for 250m split and 34.326 sec for 500m.
    Ben Kersten did 18.357 sec for 250m split and 1:01.815 for 1000m.

    The world record for 200m (running) sprint is 19.32sec,
    Michael Johnson. It's safe to say Meares could beat that since
    her split was for 250m.

    If the cyclist isn't planning to do the other 3 laps, it's even
    quicker. Whoever led out the Scotland Team Sprint squad (can't
    remember if it was Hoy or MacLean) did 250m from a standing start in
    17.672 at the same meeting. Since the second man covered his lap in
    around 13s, it seems a track sprinter would be over 80m ahead of
    Michael Johnson after 19.32s

    Kinky Cowboy*

    *Batteries not included
    May contain traces of nuts
    Your milage may vary

  14. Kinky Cowboy said:

    If the cyclist isn't planning to do the other 3 laps, it's even
    quicker. Whoever led out the Scotland Team Sprint squad (can't
    remember if it was Hoy or MacLean) did 250m from a standing start in
    17.672 at the same meeting. Since the second man covered his lap in
    around 13s, it seems a track sprinter would be over 80m ahead of
    Michael Johnson after 19.32s


    But still a long way behind a quarter horse, which would be another 100
    m ahead.

    What I saw was ten years or more ago, a programme called "You Bet" if
    any Brits remember. It was obviously set up for the cyclist to win -
    just. The bike was a Kingcycle SWB recumbent or something like it,
    with a nose and tail fairing and a bodysock. The horse was a
    point-to-point type and although it was galloping hard I doubt if it
    was travelling much over 30mph. Even so, it pulled out better than 50
    yards lead before the cyclist began clawing it back.

  15. Don't forget, however, that the running sprinters start from
    a gun, rather than at their discretion. A minor effect, to
    be sure...

    --
    Joe Riel

  16. Joe Riel said:


    Don't forget, however, that the running sprinters start from
    a gun, rather than at their discretion. A minor effect, to
    be sure...

    Track sprinters start from a 'gun', and have a mechanical device
    holding them until it goes off. Horses too are mechanically restrained
    until the starter tells them to go.

    Runners are penalised for a false start if they apply pressure to the
    blocks less than 0.11s after the gun, but the best start in about 0.2s

    Kinky Cowboy*

    *Batteries not included
    May contain traces of nuts
    Your milage may vary

  17. On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:00:34 -0700, "* * Chas" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jenny Brien said:

    Some years ago I saw a TV stunt where a guy on a faired recumbent


    beat

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a racehorse over a quarter mile. If I recall correctly, Jesse Owens
    used to do a similar feat over a shorter distance.

    >From a standing mstart on the flat, what is the least distance in


    which

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a cyclist could expect to overtake a sprint athlete of similar


    ability.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I would expect it to be impossible in 100 metres, and unlikely in


    200.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What sort of bike would give the best advastage? There seems to be a
    fine balance between getting close to the athletes initial


    acceleration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and reaching a high enough top speed to close him down quickly when


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reaches maximun at 60 metres or so.

    Dear Jenny,

    When Owens beat a horse, it was partly because he was one the the
    world's greatest sprinters and partly a variation of an old gambler's
    trick:

    "There's no way a man can beat a horse, even over 100 yards," he
    [Owens] explained. "The secret is, first, get a thoroughbred because
    they are the most nervous animals on earth. Then get the biggest gun
    you can and make sure the starter fires that big gun right by the
    nervous thoroughbred's ear. By the time the jockey gets the horse
    settled down, I could cover about 50 yards and win, which I did."

    Chided for "stooping" to such a level, he replied: "People said it was
    degrading. I had four gold medals but I couldn't eat them. I had to do
    what I could and there weren't any of the benefits they have today,
    particularly for people of my color."

    http://6news.kusports.com/news/columns/story/110938

    Something similar is likely to be true of a faired bicycle--given an
    equal start, the bicycle is unlikely to have any chance.

    Olympic sprinters reach about 27 mph around 70 meters down the track
    in the 100-meter dash.

    The Kentucky Derby record for the 1st quarter-mile (1320 feet) is just
    under 22 seconds--an average of 40.9 mph from a standing start:

    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kyderbyhorses1.html

    And that's with a full mile left to go.

    The world record for a flying 500 meters for a diamond frame is 26.7
    seconds--an average of 42.0 mph from a flying start for 1640 feet:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/oct96/records.html

    A faired recumbent is heavier, so it's not going to accelerate even as
    well as an ordinary bike from a dead stop. Typically, they have very
    high gearing and take up to five miles to reach top speed for a short
    speed trap.

    As for a sprinter against a bicycle, the distance will be fairly
    short, as you suppose. After about 70 meters, sprinters slow down from
    about 25-27 mph, while the bicycle is still accelerating to a steady
    speed over 30 mph.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    The All-American Futurity at Ruidoso Downs Racetrack in New Mexico is
    the world's richest Quarter Horse race with a total purse of $2 million.
    It's a straight quarter mile drag race.

    Quarter horses are commonly believed to be the world's fastest horses
    over short distances, some having been clocked at 55 mph.

    Ride on.....

    Chas.

    Dear Chas,

    The devil is in the details.

    In 1996, a quarter horse finally broke 21 seconds for 1320 feet,
    Evening Snow at 20.94:

    http://www.aqha.com/racing/handicapping/firsttimers/thehorse.html

    That's 42.9 mph. He may have been going 55 mph well down the track
    (28% faster), but you can see how this sort of thing gets confusing.

    It's similar to a 10-second 100m dash, which is an average speed of
    22.4 mph for sprinters who are commonly thought to reach 27 mph at
    about 70 meters (20% faster).

    That's why standing-start sprint records are usually given in elapsed
    time, which has been easily measured for over a century, instead of
    top speed, which is still a bit tricky to measure.

    A baseball is fairly easy to measure with a speed gun (given a lot of
    practice behind the batter), but speed guns can give very odd readings
    on irregular objects with feet, hands, or hooves whipping forward much
    faster than the body.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  18. Kinky Cowboy said:
    Joe Riel said:


    Don't forget, however, that the running sprinters start from
    a gun, rather than at their discretion. A minor effect, to
    be sure...

    Track sprinters start from a 'gun', and have a mechanical device
    holding them until it goes off. Horses too are mechanically restrained
    until the starter tells them to go.

    Runners are penalised for a false start if they apply pressure to the
    blocks less than 0.11s after the gun, but the best start in about 0.2s

    Thanks for the correction. Does the starting device for a cyclist
    also test for "anticipating" the gun? Or does it actually restrain
    the bike (I had assumed the bike was merely held up, not restrained).
    For the race against the clock it would be easier, I think, to just
    start the timer when the athlete moves forward. Isn't that what
    happens with (solo) ski racers (i.e. timing starts when they break the
    gate)?

    --
    Joe Riel

  19. Joe Riel said:
    Kinky Cowboy said:
    Joe Riel said:


    Don't forget, however, that the running sprinters start from
    a gun, rather than at their discretion. A minor effect, to
    be sure...

    Track sprinters start from a 'gun', and have a mechanical device
    holding them until it goes off. Horses too are mechanically restrained
    until the starter tells them to go.

    Runners are penalised for a false start if they apply pressure to the
    blocks less than 0.11s after the gun, but the best start in about 0.2s

    Thanks for the correction. Does the starting device for a cyclist
    also test for "anticipating" the gun? Or does it actually restrain
    the bike (I had assumed the bike was merely held up, not restrained).
    For the race against the clock it would be easier, I think, to just
    start the timer when the athlete moves forward. Isn't that what
    happens with (solo) ski racers (i.e. timing starts when they break the
    gate)?

    Dear Joe,

    For what it's worth, horses can be just as tricky to start and time as
    people:

    "In American Quarter Horse racing, the clock begins as soon as the
    starter pushes the button and the starting gates open. In comparison,
    Thoroughbreds are given a running start. Although they break from the
    gate just like American Quarter Horses, their timer does not begin
    until they are several strides from the gate."

    http://www.aqha.com/racing/handicapping/firsttimers/thehorse.html

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  20. Quoted message said:

    A Zabriskie over a course in excess of three miles stands a good
    chance against a race horse--again, as long as the horse carries 120
    pounds of rider and saddle.

    I've read that the fastest horses recorded were being ridden, not
    "riding solo". Maybe it's just the motivation of the jockey (plus the
    jockey does contribute somewhat to the propulsion, though not in
    proportion to his weight).

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

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