Silva sighting compass

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

Mine has Type 4 written on it.

The type 4 does not have the super sighting thingummy that the wiglet
seeks. That is the 54.

Mine *does* have the super sighting thingummy. So why does it have Type
4 written on it? Could I have been sold one with the wrong baseplate?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Peewiglet said:

I agree! I bought a little Geko 201 just before I went walking
recently. I didn't have time to learn how to use it with uploaded
routes etc, so just used it for getting a grid reference from time to
time, but I plan to get out the instruction book soon 🙂

You don't even have to bother with routes, just put a few useful
waypoints into it, then tell it to GOTO whichever waypoint you want,
then just follow the arrow. Easy peasy.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

Mine has Type 4 written on it.

The type 4 does not have the super sighting thingummy that the wiglet
seeks. That is the 54.

Mine *does* have the super sighting thingummy. So why does it have Type
4 written on it? Could I have been sold one with the wrong baseplate?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

I mislaid my first copy of this type of compass a few years ago, and missed
it so much, bought a 2nd. I then came across the first, and realised the
design had changed slightly between "identical" models. First version is
labelled "4/54" - can't find 2nd. (with luminous figures) at the moment. My
requirements were in the surveying sphere, rather than finding my way
around, and the quoted accuracy was attractive. Variations in local
magnetic deviation were not!
Have since used the Suunto mentioned above, and for my original purposes, it
seems the better device, and in fact is used by some departments at Lampeter
University for this purpose.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

Dominic Sexton said:

The Geko series (and probably other recent Garmins) do not allow the
selection of WGS-84 with OS grid. You can't change the datum from Ord
Svy GB when using OS grid position format.

Just checked my 60CS and it seems you are right. When you set it
British Grid it fixes the datum to Ordnance Survey, you can't change it.
When you choose a lat/long format it automatically switches to WGS84,
but you can change that back to Ordnance Survey if you want. Lat/long
will work with both (and give different positions - very confusing!).

Quoted message said:

With the older Garmin default setting of WGS-84 with OS grid gave an
error just about 120m which could be confusing but is unlikely to lead
to next valley syndrome.

Well the bog standard 6 figure grid ref can be out by as much as 141m
and people have been happy with that for years, so even a 120m error
isn't that big a deal for *very* rough navigation.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

Mine has Type 4 written on it.

The type 4 does not have the super sighting thingummy that the wiglet
seeks. That is the 54.

Mine *does* have the super sighting thingummy. So why does it have Type
4 written on it? Could I have been sold one with the wrong baseplate?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Mine has "Type 4" too. Looks like there's been some renaming by Silva over
the years. Now, if only I hadn't thrown away that 1986 Field and Trek
catalogue. . . .

druidh

Chris Malcolm said:

2. Omigod I just happened to open it and it's got lots of pages and
words and stuff! Yuk!

I read manuals. It seems to me that many are *over* written these days,
they explain simple things in far too much detail. This results in lots
of words, thus a manual may look daunting simply because it's so big,
yet there isn't really that much actual information in it.

Many manuals these days are like help files, they mostly just state the
obvious.

An example from the troubleshooting section of my new Freeview receiver;

Problem - Scrambled channel message
Possible cause - Channel is scrambled
What to do - Select alternative channel

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

druidh said:

Mine has "Type 4" too. Looks like there's been some renaming by Silva
over the years.

Well that's a relief!

Quoted message said:

Now, if only I hadn't thrown away that 1986 Field and
Trek catalogue. . . .

I wouldn't mind betting that I've still got one of those somewhere...

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

| Why anyone expects to navigate without reading the instructions in beyond
| me.

Because it is absolutely *impossible* to even read all the instructions for
all the electronic equipment I have. There are not enough hours in a year
for that, after deducting sleeping/eating time etc.

As we said when I was an engineer. "If all else fails read the
instructions".

Yep! I got into doo-doo when I bought a new VCR about 3 hours before
I was taking the lady friend dancing. I had to install it, do the
initial setup, cook and eat my tea, and get showered and changed.

In the middle of this she said "Can you record XXXX for me", it's on
while we're out?

I managed it with minutes to spare, and set the timer, but didn't have
time to glance at the manual.
Unfortunately in the initial setup I had guessed an innocent looking
setting choice which actually instructed it to record the satellite
channel whenever there was a signal. I don't have satellite, but I do
have a security camera permanently connected! So when we sat down
for her to watch the program we got the security camera picture!
--
Gordon

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I originally went to university with the vague idea of becoming some
kind of scientist. I messed up badly and walked off without a degree
before they flung me out.

I accidentally became a kind of uncertified engineer simply because I
was good at fixing complicated broken things. I soon discovered that
most folk, including engineers, would only read the manual as a
desperate last resort when everything else had failed, and that He Who
Has Read The Manual is a Great Guru with Amazing Mental Powers.

By the simple expedient of reading manuals I became a research
scientist. Having read the manuals I was able to display such Amazing
Mental Powers that they waived the usual degree requirements.

Why didn't anyone tell me this before I went to university?

I didn't go to university because I suffered from CRAFT.

Can't Remember A F****** Thing.
--
Gordon

Peewiglet <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:09:25 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

| Why anyone expects to navigate without reading the instructions in beyond
| me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because it is absolutely *impossible* to even read all the instructions for
all the electronic equipment I have. There are not enough hours in a year
for that, after deducting sleeping/eating time etc.

Quoted message said:

You must be a very slow reader.

Many people are slow readers, but telepathic properties are much more
unusual. How come you know how much electronic equipment Dave has?
:-)

Because he is omnipotent. :-)
--
Gordon

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not just navigation. I think the reasoning goes something like this.

1. If you need to read the manual you must be stupid, it can't be that hard.

2. Omigod I just happened to open it and it's got lots of pages and
words and stuff! Yuk!

3. I am not stupid, nor am I a boring anorak who reads boring manuals
for chrissake!

4. Can you change my watch to winter time for me?
--

It's not just the watch. It's the telly, the central heating timer,
the VCR, all those time switches on the lights, the clock radios.

I now have a clock and a watch which adjust themselves by listening to
Droitwich or somewhere, but I wonder why we put up with it anyway?

Suppose we all refused to go back to winter time?
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

Mine has Type 4 written on it.

The type 4 does not have the super sighting thingummy that the wiglet
seeks. That is the 54.

Mine *does* have the super sighting thingummy. So why does it have Type
4 written on it? Could I have been sold one with the wrong baseplate?

It seems that they have indeed use the same baseplate for the 54 and the
4.

http://www.silva.se/orienteering/produkter/com_exp54.htm
http://www.silva.se/outdoor/products/comp_exp4.htm

On the baseplate in the type 4 you can see TYPE 4/54 near the lanyard
hole. Makes sense but perhaps a little confusing sometimes...

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Gordon said:

Suppose we all refused to go back to winter time?

<rant>
Or better still, go back to Greenwich Mean Time now and refuse to
accept the daylight savings bodge next year. I couldn't care less
about the euro replacing the pound, but I want to stick with Real Time.

</rant>

-adrian (still annoyed after hearing on the news this morning that
some idiot MP who can't get up in the morning wants to mess with the
clocks again ..)

In article <[email hidden]>, Adrian Godwin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Gordon said:

Suppose we all refused to go back to winter time?

<rant>
Or better still, go back to Greenwich Mean Time now and refuse to
accept the daylight savings bodge next year. I couldn't care less
about the euro replacing the pound, but I want to stick with Real Time.

</rant>

-adrian (still annoyed after hearing on the news this morning that
some idiot MP who can't get up in the morning wants to mess with the
clocks again ..)

We should stay on BST all the time thus reducing the number of injuries
/ fatalities of youngsters at dusk. It is well known that dusk is a
better time for accidents so having dusk coincide with the time the
youngsters are on their way home from school is senseless.

I too would like to stay with GMT for reasons of tradition but it just
doesn't make any sense. If only they had done a better job of GMT in the
first place...

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

We should stay on BST all the time thus reducing the number of injuries
/ fatalities of youngsters at dusk. It is well known that dusk is a
better time for accidents so having dusk coincide with the time the
youngsters are on their way home from school is senseless.

I agree. Apparently the Scots were the ones to dig their heels in and
disagree with the safety findings, but a later survey proved that to
retain BST the whole year would make 0.7% reduction in accidents to
children. It doesn't sound much, but it contradicted the instinctive
opinions.

The discussion (radio 4) went on to say that since Scotland now enjoys
devolution, why don't we devolve from them and do our own thing.
They can please themselves whether they follow suit. :-)

Quoted message said:

I too would like to stay with GMT for reasons of tradition but it just
doesn't make any sense. If only they had done a better job of GMT in the
first place...

It used to irritate me that I had to keep my Amateur Radio log book in
GMT at all times, so I had one desk clock which I never altered.
It kept me sane. I think.
--
Gordon

Peewiglet said:

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:09:25 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

| Why anyone expects to navigate without reading the instructions in beyond
| me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because it is absolutely *impossible* to even read all the instructions for
all the electronic equipment I have. There are not enough hours in a year
for that, after deducting sleeping/eating time etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You must be a very slow reader.

Quoted message said:

Many people are slow readers, but telepathic properties are much more
unusual. How come you know how much electronic equipment Dave has?
:-)

Not necessary. All I had to do was to imagine a maximum rate of annual
electronic equipment purchase nobody was likely to exceed, and
consider if there would be enough time to read all the manuals before
the next year's lot arrived.

I came to the conclusion "only if a very slow reader". No telepathy
needed. The only person likely to be an exception to this
generalisation is of course nobody. Very handy sort of chap.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Alan Law said:

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:22:46 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>If you're prepared to spend that much on a sighting compass, you might
>like to consider buying one that's nearly indestructible, such as
>
>http://www.suuntousa.com/images/kb-14_lrg.jpg
>
>which is carved out of a solid block of alumimium, and which would be
>very difficult to break by jumping on it with hiking boots.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've had a look, and although it looks cool I don't think it has the
little window showing the bearing. The reason I was willing to pay #++
was I'm not the world's most competent navigator and...

Quoted message said:

KB-14 is a true sighting compass, but the window is non-protruding. See this
URL:
http://www.suunto.com/suunto/main/product_long.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673940088&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723697223383&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442490195&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395903525&bmUID=1097426465884

The sighting optics being encased in the aluminium block of the body
is what makes it close to indestructible.

Quoted message said:

www.suunto.com says that Viking Optical Ltd (Suffolk) are importers of
Suunto KB-14 compass, but Viking's web-site seems unclear on this. Certainly
I purchased a Suunto clinometer from Viking two years ago.
www.adventureshop.co.uk sell them, but seem to be out of stock.

It's a rare purchase on account of the price, which means you
sometimes find a place that's got fed up of having it in the window
are are willing to do a deal.

It's trivially easy to read it down to 1/4 degree, and good estimators
with a steady support could probably get .1 degree from it.

BTW, a useful tip for those who have compasses where the plastic
window sometimes get charged with static electricity so that the
compass disc gets attracted to it and won't rotate: breathe on
it. Discharges the static. Can happen after some polishing of a dirty
window gives it a charge, for example.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Gordon said:

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not just navigation. I think the reasoning goes something like this.

1. If you need to read the manual you must be stupid, it can't be that hard.

2. Omigod I just happened to open it and it's got lots of pages and
words and stuff! Yuk!

3. I am not stupid, nor am I a boring anorak who reads boring manuals
for chrissake!

4. Can you change my watch to winter time for me?
--

It's not just the watch. It's the telly, the central heating timer,
the VCR, all those time switches on the lights, the clock radios.

Quoted message said:

I now have a clock and a watch which adjust themselves by listening to
Droitwich or somewhere, but I wonder why we put up with it anyway?

Quoted message said:

Suppose we all refused to go back to winter time?

It also depends on how far east or west of the Greenwich Meridian you
are, thus advancing or retarding true local time. I blame the railways
for taking away our local times and shoehorning us all into
one-time-fits-all GMT. It all comes from trying to travel faster than
a horse.

In fact (don't laugh, this is *really* *true*) the railways
nationalised British time to GMT in order to make trains run to the
timetabled times, because if towns had stuck to their local sun times,
you'd find east-west trains turning up five minutes early or late!
Just Imagine!

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Gordon said:

Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

We should stay on BST all the time thus reducing the number of injuries
/ fatalities of youngsters at dusk. It is well known that dusk is a
better time for accidents so having dusk coincide with the time the
youngsters are on their way home from school is senseless.

I agree. Apparently the Scots were the ones to dig their heels in and
disagree with the safety findings, but a later survey proved that to
retain BST the whole year would make 0.7% reduction in accidents to
children. It doesn't sound much, but it contradicted the instinctive
opinions.

I agree that children shouldn't be going home from school in dusk,
but the same argument applies to any group that don't make the
best use of daylight hours (including the farmworkers that the
scheme was originally intended for). These groups don't all have
the same requirements, so it makes no sense to shift the entire
timekeeping system for everyone to the advantage of one group.

There's a much simpler option : send children to school
earlier in the winter. This is, of course what we're doing
anyway, but we're doing it by relabelling the hours, which
is absurd.

Similarly, if a businessman wants his working day to coincide
with his colleagues in a French office, then let him work
hours that match theirs : don't put the rest of us on double
summer time.

Quoted message said:

The discussion (radio 4) went on to say that since Scotland now enjoys
devolution, why don't we devolve from them and do our own thing.
They can please themselves whether they follow suit. :-)

They also acknowledged that if part of the UK changed, the rest
would inevitiably follow. Multiple timezones are too inconvenient.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I too would like to stay with GMT for reasons of tradition but it just
doesn't make any sense. If only they had done a better job of GMT in the
first place...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they chose 12:00 to be the time when
the sun was highest in the sky. They continued to work the daylight
hours, which now had a conveniently standardised reference. I don't
think there's any natural law that requires work to run from 9-5
and school 9-3. In fact, they probably worked 6 a.m. until 6 p.m.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It used to irritate me that I had to keep my Amateur Radio log book in
GMT at all times, so I had one desk clock which I never altered.
It kept me sane. I think.

Quite so. A better system still would be alter NONE of your clocks.

-adrian

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:00:33 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris

Malcolm) said:

Alan Law said:

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:22:46 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>If you're prepared to spend that much on a sighting compass, you might
>>like to consider buying one that's nearly indestructible, such as
>>
>>http://www.suuntousa.com/images/kb-14_lrg.jpg
>>
>>which is carved out of a solid block of alumimium, and which would be
>>very difficult to break by jumping on it with hiking boots.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've had a look, and although it looks cool I don't think it has the
little window showing the bearing. The reason I was willing to pay #++
was I'm not the world's most competent navigator and...

Quoted message said:

KB-14 is a true sighting compass, but the window is non-protruding. See this
URL:
http://www.suunto.com/suunto/main/product_long.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673940088&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723697223383&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442490195&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395903525&bmUID=1097426465884

The sighting optics being encased in the aluminium block of the body
is what makes it close to indestructible.

Quoted message said:

www.suunto.com says that Viking Optical Ltd (Suffolk) are importers of
Suunto KB-14 compass, but Viking's web-site seems unclear on this. Certainly
I purchased a Suunto clinometer from Viking two years ago.
www.adventureshop.co.uk sell them, but seem to be out of stock.

It's a rare purchase on account of the price, which means you
sometimes find a place that's got fed up of having it in the window
are are willing to do a deal.

It's trivially easy to read it down to 1/4 degree, and good estimators
with a steady support could probably get .1 degree from it.

BTW, a useful tip for those who have compasses where the plastic
window sometimes get charged with static electricity so that the
compass disc gets attracted to it and won't rotate: breathe on
it. Discharges the static. Can happen after some polishing of a dirty
window gives it a charge, for example.

I had a Suunto KB-14 for a number of years when I used to go
potholing. On one particularly cold day the compass was exposed to
this temperature for a few hours inside an ammunition box which I left
on the surface whilst underground. Later on I noticed a large air
bubble had formed inside the compass capsule. To cut a long story
short everything I tried failed to get rid of the bubble. The compass
was well constructed and ideal for getting bearings. It was no good
for map work as it lacked the protractor facility that the Silva type
have. I gave it away and bought a Thommen compass which served a
similar purpose. Having purchased a variety of GPS receivers since
1992 the compass has never been used although I do use my Silva 4 now
and again.
You can buy marine hand held sighting compasses a lot cheaper than the
Suunto KB-14. See:
http://www.seamarknunn.co.uk/catalog/items/item171.htm
I have looked at one of these in a boat chandlery shop and they appear
very well made, functional and robust.

Norman