"Silicone Compound", not "grease"?

[[email protected]]

hi temp auto emissions valves!
i'll bet linseed oil and shellac will do as well
butbutbut i always spend time at the rack wondering if a new product
will really remove facial hair

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

Per Mark Hickey:
>Fashion?

The LBS was adamant about using TiPrep.

My recollection is that you were the one that suggested copper-based... or am I
losing it already?
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Andrew Webster]

"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Soap is made from fats/oils, but reacted with alkali, not just mixed.
> > It is, essentially sodium\potassium salts (depending on the alkali
> > used) of fatty acids (from hydrolysis of glycerides in the original
> > fat/oil).
> >
> > Just as water isn't a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen even though it
> > can be made from them, soap isn't a mixture of alkali and fats even
> > though they are used in its production. Chemical change is involved.
>
>
> Yes, I knew it needed to be cooked a bit.
>
>
> > Grease is made from soap mixed with oil. No chemical change, just
> > physical mixing.
>
>
> OK, I was wrong. It seems that most, if not all, lubricating grease is made
> from oil mixed with soap and maybe other stuff. How about silicone grease,
> is it made with a soap component?

The soap is just a thickener, the lubricant is the oil (silicone or
hydrocarbon), various thickeners can be used in a grease.

See http://www.dynaroll.com/catalog/pag018.htm for a brief
exposition.

Andrew Webster

 

[Jim Smith]

[email protected] (Andrew Webster) writes:

> "Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> "Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Soap is made from fats/oils, but reacted with alkali, not just mixed.
>> > It is, essentially sodium\potassium salts (depending on the alkali
>> > used) of fatty acids (from hydrolysis of glycerides in the original
>> > fat/oil).
>> >
>> > Just as water isn't a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen even though it
>> > can be made from them, soap isn't a mixture of alkali and fats even
>> > though they are used in its production. Chemical change is involved.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I knew it needed to be cooked a bit.
>>
>>
>> > Grease is made from soap mixed with oil. No chemical change, just
>> > physical mixing.
>>
>>
>> OK, I was wrong. It seems that most, if not all, lubricating grease is made
>> from oil mixed with soap and maybe other stuff. How about silicone grease,
>> is it made with a soap component?
>
> The soap is just a thickener, the lubricant is the oil (silicone or
> hydrocarbon), various thickeners can be used in a grease.
>
> See http://www.dynaroll.com/catalog/pag018.htm for a brief
> exposition.

Nice informative page. Would bicycle wheel bearings be considered
high speed or low speed? I would think low speed, but maybe that term
is reserved for things like drawbridges.

 

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:16:10 -0600, Jim Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] (Andrew Webster) writes:
>
>> "Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>> "Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>> > Soap is made from fats/oils, but reacted with alkali, not just mixed.
>>> > It is, essentially sodium\potassium salts (depending on the alkali
>>> > used) of fatty acids (from hydrolysis of glycerides in the original
>>> > fat/oil).
>>> >
>>> > Just as water isn't a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen even though it
>>> > can be made from them, soap isn't a mixture of alkali and fats even
>>> > though they are used in its production. Chemical change is involved.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I knew it needed to be cooked a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Grease is made from soap mixed with oil. No chemical change, just
>>> > physical mixing.
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, I was wrong. It seems that most, if not all, lubricating grease is made
>>> from oil mixed with soap and maybe other stuff. How about silicone grease,
>>> is it made with a soap component?
>>
>> The soap is just a thickener, the lubricant is the oil (silicone or
>> hydrocarbon), various thickeners can be used in a grease.
>>
>> See http://www.dynaroll.com/catalog/pag018.htm for a brief
>> exposition.
>
>Nice informative page. Would bicycle wheel bearings be considered
>high speed or low speed? I would think low speed, but maybe that term
>is reserved for things like drawbridges.

Dear Jim,

Probably low speed.

A 700c wheel spins at about 250 to 500 rpm at 20 to 40 mph.

That rpm sounds mildly impressive at first, but the tiny
circle of the cone is under two inches.

So the hub bearings at 20 to 40 mph slither only 500 to
1,000 inches per minute, which works out to about 0.5 to 1.0
mph.

Here's a post that kinda-sorta addresses such matters:

http://groups.google.co.uk/[email protected]&rnum=1

Carl Fogel

 

[Jim Smith]

[email protected] writes:

> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:16:10 -0600, Jim Smith
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] (Andrew Webster) writes:
>>
>>> "Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>> "Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> > Soap is made from fats/oils, but reacted with alkali, not just mixed.
>>>> > It is, essentially sodium\potassium salts (depending on the alkali
>>>> > used) of fatty acids (from hydrolysis of glycerides in the original
>>>> > fat/oil).
>>>> >
>>>> > Just as water isn't a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen even though it
>>>> > can be made from them, soap isn't a mixture of alkali and fats even
>>>> > though they are used in its production. Chemical change is involved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I knew it needed to be cooked a bit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Grease is made from soap mixed with oil. No chemical change, just
>>>> > physical mixing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, I was wrong. It seems that most, if not all, lubricating grease is made
>>>> from oil mixed with soap and maybe other stuff. How about silicone grease,
>>>> is it made with a soap component?
>>>
>>> The soap is just a thickener, the lubricant is the oil (silicone or
>>> hydrocarbon), various thickeners can be used in a grease.
>>>
>>> See http://www.dynaroll.com/catalog/pag018.htm for a brief
>>> exposition.
>>
>>Nice informative page. Would bicycle wheel bearings be considered
>>high speed or low speed? I would think low speed, but maybe that term
>>is reserved for things like drawbridges.
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> Probably low speed.
>
> A 700c wheel spins at about 250 to 500 rpm at 20 to 40 mph.
>
> That rpm sounds mildly impressive at first, but the tiny
> circle of the cone is under two inches.
>
> So the hub bearings at 20 to 40 mph slither only 500 to
> 1,000 inches per minute, which works out to about 0.5 to 1.0
> mph.
>
> Here's a post that kinda-sorta addresses such matters:
>
> http://groups.google.co.uk/[email protected]&rnum=1
>

Aha! so I guess elasto-hydrodyname separation is the dividing line?

--
Bearing Beam Speed Grease, its good for you!

 

[[email protected]]

Jim Smith <[email protected]> writes:

>> Here's a post that kinda-sorta addresses such matters:

http://tinyurl.com/6rjq5

> Aha! so I guess elasto-hydrodyname separation is the dividing line?

Don't take that electrical conductivity test as a good dividing line.
Electric conductivity occurs when asperity contacts occur but that
does not mean that there is no lubricant film between ball and race,
only that the film is penetrated intermittently. The speed at which
asperity contacts occur is also dependent on surface finish of the
balls and races.

Lubricant free bearings, ones with no oil film between balls and
races, weld and fail rapidly. The nature of mono-molecular squeeze
films is not well understood by many in the tribologists. In such
thin films, liquids perform more like solids because they are so well
attached to the bearing surfaces that they cannot be pressed out of
the interface. For this reason, even with their high contact
pressures, ball bearings retain lubricant between races and balls
which can only be displaced by fretting motions, the ones that cause
bicycle head bearing failures and automobile shipping failures on
wheel, and differential bearings.

> Bearing Beam Speed Grease, its good for you!

I suppose.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

 

[[email protected]]

Jim Smith <[email protected]> writes:

>> Here's a post that kinda-sorta addresses such matters:

http://tinyurl.com/6rjq5

> Aha! so I guess elasto-hydrodyname separation is the dividing line?

Don't take that electrical conductivity test as a good dividing line.
Electric conductivity occurs when asperity contacts occur but that
does not mean that there is no lubricant film between ball and race,
only that the film is penetrated intermittently. The rotational speed
at which asperity contacts occur is also dependent on surface finish
of the balls and races.

Lubricant free bearings, ones with no oil film between balls and
races, weld and fail rapidly. The nature of mono-molecular squeeze
films is not well understood by many tribologists. In such thin
films, liquids perform more like solids because they are so well
attached to the bearing surfaces that they cannot be pressed out of
the interface. For this reason, even with their high contact
pressures, ball bearings retain lubricant between races and balls
which can only be displaced by fretting motions, the ones that cause
bicycle head bearing failures and automobile shipping failures on
wheel, and differential bearings.

> Bearing Beam Speed Grease, its good for you!

I suppose.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

 

[Jim Adney]

On 3 Mar 2005 08:35:52 -0800 [email protected] wrote:

>What DO they suggest that it be used for?
>having said this-
>
>i do believe both P.WOOD and FINISH LINE bicycle greases are silicone

The Phil Wood grease is not a silicone grease. (private conversation
with Phil, circa 1974). I doubt if Finish Line is either, but I have
no data on that.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email protected]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------