shoe surgery to get cleats further back

I did successful surgery on a pair of Lake mountain bike shoes - I don't know the model, but they
have laces and the sole is mostly rubber. I just hacked away the rubber with a sharp knife, and used
a power drill to drill new holes in the hard plastic part of the shoe. I was able to move my SPD
cleats back about 1.5", which made a huge difference in comfort and power output on my GRR. You can
see a picture of the cleat position at:

dotphoto.comGuestViewImage.aspOpen ↗

(just click on the sign in box and the image will appear. no need for password)

I think it would probably be much more difficult to do this on road shoes - the hard plastic soles
would end up putting the cleat at an odd angle, and it would be hard to get the bolts through the
sole into the inside mount plate. When you move the cleat back, your shoe doesn't have to be nearly
so stiff anyway. The lake shoes allow for easy walking even with the SPD cleat - it doesn't even
touch the pavement.

dan schaper <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted to
get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a non-event.
However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious pulling while
spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to their original
location.

So I've moved on to Frogs/SidiGenius shoes that use adapters which I modified (some might say
mutilated) to get the cleats back as far as possible. Alas I don't think they made it to where the
platform/PowerGrips allowed. Pulling/spinning uphill is fine. Clipping-in sometimes is
problematic, but clipping-out is a no-brainer and the knees are happy. However walking in the road
shoes is often way too exciting and the cleats grinding on the sidewalk sound terrible.

It appears I'm searching maybe for some mountain bike SPD shoes for the Frog cleats. Any
suggestions as to which ones would require the least amount of grinding/drilling/whittling? Or is
there a shoe surgery method out there I haven't thought of?

Dan

Mort,

I could not get the picture.

Andy

"MortDubois" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I did successful surgery on a pair of Lake mountain bike shoes - I don't know the model, but they
have laces and the sole is mostly rubber. I just hacked away the rubber with a sharp knife, and
used a power drill to drill new holes in the hard plastic part of the shoe. I was able to move my
SPD cleats back about 1.5", which made a huge difference in comfort and power output on my GRR.
You can see a picture of the cleat position at:

dotphoto.comGuestViewImage.aspOpen ↗

(just click on the sign in box and the image will appear. no need for password)

I think it would probably be much more difficult to do this on road shoes - the hard plastic soles
would end up putting the cleat at an odd angle, and it would be hard to get the bolts through the
sole into the inside mount plate. When you move the cleat back, your shoe doesn't have to be
nearly so stiff anyway. The lake shoes allow for easy walking even with the SPD cleat - it doesn't
even touch the pavement.

dan schaper <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted
to get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a
non-event. However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious
pulling while spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to
their original location.

So I've moved on to Frogs/SidiGenius shoes that use adapters which I modified (some might say
mutilated) to get the cleats back as far as possible. Alas I don't think they made it to where
the platform/PowerGrips allowed. Pulling/spinning uphill is fine. Clipping-in sometimes is
problematic, but clipping-out is a no-brainer and the knees are happy. However walking in the
road shoes is often way too exciting and the cleats grinding on the sidewalk sound terrible.

It appears I'm searching maybe for some mountain bike SPD shoes for the Frog cleats. Any
suggestions as to which ones would require the least amount of grinding/drilling/whittling? Or
is there a shoe surgery method out there I haven't thought of?

Dan

dan schaper said:

During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted to
get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a non-event.
However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious pulling while
spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to their original
location.

Dan,

I was able to move a Frog cleat approximately 3 cm toward the heel area of a Shimano MO-33 shoe with
the help of a dremel tool and xacto type knife. The 3 cm is measured from the center of the normal
most rearward cleat position. The newly recessed area was filled with bathroom type silicon caulk to
create a smoother inner surface in the shoe. For me, this has made a significant improvement in my
comfort while riding. I have had a chance to try other shoes with a more traditional cleat position
including the SIDI Mega and nothing matches the modified cleat position. I ride a Bacchetta Giro. I
actually came to this conclusion after experimenting with various foot/pedal positions while riding
a recumbent exercycle at the Gym which used a powergrip/platform system. In looking at the SIDI
shoes I did not have the guts to do such major work on such an expensive shoe.

I would not profess that this would work for everyone but I would encourage you to experiment. I
would never go back now to the old position.

Hope this helps, Don

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mortdubois
dotphoto.comGuestViewImage.aspOpen ↗

(just click on the sign in box and the image will appear. no need for password)

Ummm...it would not let me past the sign in box.

"Andy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mort,

I could not get the picture.

Andy

Hit the link. The webpage will come up with a login box that should have "imageextreme" or
something like it as the username, and a blank space for a password, then a button for Login. Just
hit the login button without entering a password, and the picture should appear (it just worked a
minute ago)

Mort

I've given up, for now, on clipless pedals and have gone back to Power Grips for this reason. I
might try chewing up my Shimano shoes and remounting the cleats, but - really, PGs are almost as
efficient and much more flexible.

Quoted message said:

I was able to move a Frog cleat approximately 3 cm toward the heel area of a Shimano MO-33 shoe
with the help of a dremel tool and xacto type knife. The 3 cm is measured from the center of the
normal most rearward cleat position. The newly recessed area was filled with bathroom type silicon
caulk to create a smoother inner surface in the shoe. For me, this has made a significant
improvement in my comfort while riding. I have had a chance to try other shoes with a more
traditional cleat position including the SIDI Mega and nothing matches the modified cleat
position. I ride a Bacchetta Giro. I actually came to this conclusion after experimenting with
various foot/pedal positions while riding a recumbent exercycle at the Gym which used a
powergrip/platform system. In looking at the SIDI shoes I did not have the guts to do such major
work on such an expensive shoe.

Luckily, the SIDIs have this adapter dealy that bolts to the bottom of the shoe for SPD(FROG)
compatibility so the dremel work was done to them, not the shoe proper.

Quoted message said:

I would not profess that this would work for everyone but I would encourage you to experiment. I
would never go back now to the old position.

I dug a pair of Jalapenos I had originally written off as too small in the toe area and went to work
on them. There's now about 3/8" of the original slots in the sole (which the SPD nut-gizmo that's
inside the shoe slides in) showing in front of the cleats and 40 miles today went by pretty
comfortably. They're also 1000% easier to walk in than the SIDI setup I'd tried.

"jim h" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've given up, for now, on clipless pedals and have gone back to Power Grips for this reason. I
might try chewing up my Shimano shoes and remounting the cleats, but - really, PGs are almost as
efficient and much more flexible.

I've been riding with my cleats moved back 2" behind the slots on my Shimano MO-33s.
bikesmithdesign.comCleat.JPGOpen ↗ bikesmithdesign.comInsole.JPGOpen ↗

I removed most of the sole in the instep area and created a plate from
1/8" 6061 aluminum. I just tapped two holes in the plate to 5mm x .8mm for the cleat screws. I
thought they might pull out, but have lasted 5 years so far. I've used them so much I had to
resole the shoes. The plates attach to the shoe with 3 5mm screws. The front screw attaches to the
cleat plate and the others to nuts.

I used hardware store contact cement to attach scraps of shoe sole material to the aluminum
alongside the cleats. The bond was so good that they were a [censored] to replace at the time of
the resole. With Shimano pedals I had to bevel the material behind the cleats to allow
releasing. I also had to remove about 1/32" of the aluminum just ahead of the cleat for the
pedal to engage properly.

I'll never go back to the conventional position. I can pull up much harder now, and never get foot
or tendon pain anymore.

[email hidden] (Mark Stonich) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

bikesmithdesign.comCleat.JPOpen ↗

Where does that place the cleat "on your foot" ? Is it in the arch area (or instep)? Does this
completely eliminate numb toes?

Rorschandt-- <A HREF="mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]"

rorschandt said:

Quoted message said:

bikesmithdesign.comCleat.JPOpen ↗

Where does that place the cleat "on your foot" ? Is it in the arch area (or instep)?

2" behind the ball of the foot (ie knuckle of the big toe)

Quoted message said:

Does this completely eliminate numb toes?

Yes, but I also use a 3 degree anti-pronation wedge under a good arch support.

Numb toes were not a big problem for me, but genereal foot pain was. My main reason for moving the
cleats back was tendonitis, which had limited my riding for 20 years.