Screw the entry fees

In article <[email hidden]>,

Radioactive Man said:

The only bad part is that I
ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
(> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
pay attention to nutrition?

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Radioactive Man said:

The only bad part is that I
ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
(> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
pay attention to nutrition?

Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
can run the distance from a fresh start.

That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
(instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
< 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
often.

I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
does that sort of strategy work for you?

As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
starting.

Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

Quoted message said:

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
gels.

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Radioactive Man said:

The only bad part is that I
ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
(> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
pay attention to nutrition?

Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
can run the distance from a fresh start.

That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
(instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
< 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
often.

I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
does that sort of strategy work for you?

As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
starting.

Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

Quoted message said:

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
gels.

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Radioactive Man said:

That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
(instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
< 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
often.

I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
does that sort of strategy work for you?

I have two kids now, so my training tends to be sort of minimalist. I
used to do bricks, but I know what the turnover after T2 is going to
feel like and it doesn't bother me anymore. I don't think I did one
brick all year.

For me these days, training is all about getting in my long runs and
trying to get at least one high-intensity workout (usually a 20-minute
run--after a warmup--at a pace that I can handle for 20 minutes but not
for much longer). I got little bike training in this year; before my
half-IM this year, I'd done less than 250 miles of biking for the
season, and that included two other races! However, I've been working on
doing bike intervals rather than just long, slow rides, and this minimal
training let me cut 50 minutes off my half-IM P.R. and got me under 6
hours. I think I could go 5:30 with a little more work on the bike.

My focus this year is an Ultra-Marathon (50k), so I haven't been as
worried about the bike. I'm hoping to do the Pineman Ironman-distance
race next year, so I'll have to get more biking in (but by then both
kids will be old enough to go in the double bike trailer!).

Quoted message said:

As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
starting.

Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

Ah, I can see your nutritional situation is more complicated than mine.
When people ask me what my strength is in triathlon, I tell them it's my
ability to throw down huge numbers of calories!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
gels.

Whatever you do, practice your nutritional plan in training, from your
breakfast to what you eat during the workout/race. That's how I learned
what works for me, and I stick to that now.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
a couple on windy rolling courses. My swim is just OK at 37 minutes in flat
water.

I do several training days of 6+ hours getting race ready. I do a 5 hour
easy paced day one week prior to race. Yep, it may sound excessive but it
for the last 15 years has managed to get me first in age group in 98 % of my
races.

I don't even want to tell you what I have done for IM distance. You pretty
much get back what you are able to put in. Time is a factor for you guys
still needing to work for a living. I used to get up at 4 AM and run to
work, swim lunch hour and bike till there was no more light after work then
get on the trainer.

Lately I have been flaking out and it is apparent. I would hate to even try
a half in the next couple months.

Ken

"Radioactive Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Radioactive Man said:

The only bad part is that I
ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
(> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
pay attention to nutrition?

Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
can run the distance from a fresh start.

That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
(instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
< 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
often.

I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
does that sort of strategy work for you?

As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
starting.

Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

Quoted message said:

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
gels.

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

In article <[email hidden]>,

IMKen said:

Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
a couple on windy rolling courses.

Either you mean 2:35 or we need to get you on the U.S. Postal Service
Team! :-)

(Er. . . . "Discovery Channel Team" for next year.)

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

IMKen said:

Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
a couple on windy rolling courses. My swim is just OK at 37 minutes in flat
water.

But the 100 mile rides and 18 mile runs are on separate days when
training for the half IM, right?

Quoted message said:

I do several training days of 6+ hours getting race ready. I do a 5 hour
easy paced day one week prior to race. Yep, it may sound excessive but it
for the last 15 years has managed to get me first in age group in 98 % of my
races.

Surviving the training is half the battle. It is good that you're
able to get through all that without an injury that shuts it down. If
a knee or anything else below the waist starts hurting me, I tend to
back off the running and biking a bit and start swimming 2 hours at a
time instead. I know that is not optimal for triathlon training, but
it is better than sitting on the couch.

My problem last Saturday was not that I'm a weak runner, but simply
that I did not have enough stamina to perform anything well after
being in motion for 3 or 4 hours. Thus, I believe any training
combination I do that lasts 5 - 6 hours at a time will bring
improvements, so long as everything is reasonably proportioned - such
as a 1 hour swim, 3 hour ride, and 2 hour run. If that ever gets too
easy, I can always go do a century ride like you do.

Quoted message said:

I don't even want to tell you what I have done for IM distance. You pretty
much get back what you are able to put in. Time is a factor for you guys
still needing to work for a living. I used to get up at 4 AM and run to
work, swim lunch hour and bike till there was no more light after work then
get on the trainer.

That is interesting that the over-distance training strategy works for
you even at the half-IM distance. It works without question if you're
talking about running 5ks and 10ks or even swimming 1500 M, but when
you're talking about an all day event, things aren't so clear cut
anymore.

I am going to start training for a marathon soon and I'm thinking that
my longest run should be around 4 hours (my goal is <= 3:10:59). That
should put me very close to actual distance, but at an easier pace.
I've read and heard plenty of advice about only running 18 or 20 miles
as the longest training run, but I believe it would make sense to
cover the full distance a few times in training before actually racing
it, just I as intend to do with the half-IM. Would you do the same if
you were going to run a marathon, but had never done one before?

Quoted message said:

Lately I have been flaking out and it is apparent. I would hate to even try
a half in the next couple months.

Ken

Thanks for the info.

Quoted message said:

"Radioactive Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Radioactive Man <[email hidden]> wrote:

> The only bad part is that I
> ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
> (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
pay attention to nutrition?

Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
can run the distance from a fresh start.

That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
(instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
< 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
often.

I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
does that sort of strategy work for you?

As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
starting.

Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

Quoted message said:

I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
water source.

I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
gels.

Quoted message said:

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson