Running with Weighted Gloves

buck said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3

pounds per

Quoted message said:

hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments on
whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be

strictly to

Quoted message said:

increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running

form.........

Quoted message said:

just curious.
-TIA

It makes for a great workout...if you're a BOXER! But it's not
conducive to good running.

"buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3
pounds per
hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments on
whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be
strictly to
increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running
form.........
just curious.

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on knees
and ankles. Hiking with weights especially with a weight vest such that
you hold form, can help. Again, this assumes the extra weight does not
cause or irritate any joint problems. Personally my body alone is enough
to haul around. Then again if you plan to shadow box through you next
10k with the towel around your neck it might help. 🙂

-DougF

Could be very dangerous.
It could distort form and damage joints.

buck said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3

pounds per

Quoted message said:

hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments on
whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be

strictly to

Quoted message said:

increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running

form.........

Quoted message said:

just curious.
-TIA

Several years ago I ran for 6 or 8 months carrying a 2 lb wieght in
each hand. Looking back, I think I was trying to burn more calories or
something. Anyway, the workout is appreciably more difficult. I
didn't suffer any ill effects, though at the time I was only running 2
or 3 miles a day.

But when I gave it up, I sure loved running again. It was like a
weight had been lifted off my uh . . . hands. It's not much fun.

Brian Jones

Doug Freese said:

"buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3
pounds per
hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments on
whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be
strictly to
increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running
form.........
just curious.

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on knees
and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

Quoted message said:

Hiking with weights especially with a weight vest such that
you hold form, can help.

Or a full camelbak loaded with fluid and winter gear 😉 (for some
reason these things seem weightless in winter, but weigh a ton in summer
with first temperature changes)

FWIW, we do use hand weights (most of us use 5lb, maybe 10lb; while
macho instructor is probably around 20-25 lb) in some drills in my xt
class - but we're *walking* laps (snake route with about 280 ft/lap, 40
ft the longest straight line distance) most of the time (one short
*very* easy jog at end with weights low) on gymnastics floor mats. I
think I counted the reps one time and I can't remember whether it was
around 75-100 total or each arm on 6 different drills (focus on
different upper body muscles and coordination). You'd be surprised how
heavy a 3-lb weight (where most of us started and have since progressed)
can be after that many reps with the last ones pushing straight up
(about 13 min or so for all 6 drills). But I've found it does help
loosen and strengthen upper body for actual running. (and it helps my
shoulder problem enough that I don't need to go swimming, so it's value
for running is actually secondary in my mind)

But I would never ruin a good run by carrying weights 😉

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Doug Freese said:

"buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3
pounds per
hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments on
whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be
strictly to
increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running
form.........
just curious.

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on knees
and ankles. Hiking with weights especially with a weight vest such that
you hold form, can help. Again, this assumes the extra weight does not
cause or irritate any joint problems. Personally my body alone is enough
to haul around. Then again if you plan to shadow box through you next
10k with the towel around your neck it might help. 🙂

-DougF

drink 6 raw eggs after every workout too.

"drink 6 raw eggs after every
workout too."
~ Doug

'Rocky, that you?!"
~ Twittering

"Could be very dangerous.
It could distort form and damage joints."
~ Rick

"...and what
Woud you say, if on the telephone,
I told you ~ I hear your voice,
Although, no, not yet,
I cannot see you? But yes, I can feel your presence,
Your essential symmetry, pairing mine, my
Mind, yours, ours together."
~ Twittering

"But I've found it does help
Loosen and strengthen upper body for actual running.
(And it helps my shoulder problem enough
That I don't need to go swimming,
So it's value for running
Is actually secondary
In my mind."
~ Dot

"Or, second to whom,
To none? Or now? Or how? Or please eplain ~ What
Does hash mean?"
~ Twittering

"Just saw an article saying
That running with weighted gloves (2-3
Pounds per
Hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout.

Any comments on
Whether this is true or not? I would imagine
That it would be
Strictly to
iIcrease stamina rather than helping
With any kind of running
Form.........
Just curious."
~ Buck

"O, curiouser,
And curiouser, yes, all this. But, O, what
To do, what to say? And how
To move forward,
Rise from bed another day, make sense marry
Sensability? For, I know not,
I stumble, not aimlessly, for aim I have,
But my means lasts not forever ~
So today, I will do my best,
Write my best, say what I need to say, and
When my morrow comes,
I will say ~ I did my best,
I write honestly what I had to say.
And no reward sought I, for as you must
Surely know ~ Poets
Paid not, they scribble for free."
~ Twittering

"It makes for a great workout
....if you're a BOXER!
But it's not
Conducive to good running."
~ Billie

"Boxer?
Or Boston Terrier? Or just an honest
Mutt, working bare foot,
His paws bloodied, without mitts?"
~ Twittering

While you're at it, hang one of those weights off your [censored]. You'll
finally get that "snake basking in the sun" look you've always craved.

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on
knees and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

Probably not much but I still prefer the weight to be over my hips be it
a camel back or waist belt. And then the question is to carry one or
two. I would often see those carrying a single bottle changing hands.
Either one hand is getting bored or at least tired - subtle but a sign
of awkwardness I prefer to bypass. It's important to keep your hands,
arms and shoulders as relaxed as possible when out there for hours. In
a way it's like running with a clenched fist and the radiation up one's
arm and into the shoulders.

Quoted message said:

Or a full camelbak loaded with fluid and winter gear 😉 (for some
reason these things seem weightless in winter, but weigh a ton in
summer with first temperature changes)

FWIW, we do use hand weights (most of us use 5lb, maybe 10lb; while
macho instructor is probably around 20-25 lb) in some drills in my xt
class - but we're *walking* laps (snake route with about 280 ft/lap,
40 ft the longest straight line distance) most of the time (one short
*very* easy jog at end with weights low) on gymnastics floor mats. I
think I counted the reps one time and I can't remember whether it was
around 75-100 total or each arm on 6 different drills (focus on
different upper body muscles and coordination). You'd be surprised how
heavy a 3-lb weight (where most of us started and have since
progressed) can be after that many reps with the last ones pushing
straight up (about 13 min or so for all 6 drills). But I've found it
does help loosen and strengthen upper body for actual running. (and it
helps my shoulder problem enough that I don't need to go swimming, so
it's value for running is actually secondary in my mind)

Most of the studies suggest that weights for runners should be used in
conjunction with movement as walking but never running for the obvious
reasons. Static weights especially for legs are valueless for the act of
running and some suggest counter productive.

Quoted message said:

But I would never ruin a good run by carrying weights 😉

Save you hands to carry some new plant you find or grad some bear pepper
spray. 🙂

-DougF

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from dot.h@#duh?att.net of
17 Feb 2005:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on knees
and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

For one thing, the water bottle would not weigh its full weight for the
entire run, unless your intention is to just carry it as a weight and not
drink from it. The water bottles I use are 22 oz, 26 oz, or 32 oz. Never
more than 2 lbs. I use the straps that come with the UD FastDraw water
bottles. So at least you don't have to squeeze the bottle in order to
hold on to it. These can be fastened to several brands of water bottle,
up to 32 oz in size. By the way these are on sale, at REI
http://tinyurl.com/44hse.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hiking with weights especially with a weight vest such that you hold
form, can help.

Or a full camelbak loaded with fluid and winter gear 😉 (for some
reason these things seem weightless in winter, but weigh a ton in
summer with first temperature changes)

My CamelBak with full fluid capacity and usual gear weighs about 5 lbs.
About 2 lbs when finished. With the weight over my hips, it is hardly
noticeable. However, this wasn't always the case. I've had it for over a
year now. When I first got it, there was some adjustment that I made
(subconsciously?) to minimize the up and down motion in my running style.
I haven't noticed the difference between winter and summer. Probably
because my hill grades are not as varied as yours. I would imagine that
carrying anything extra up a 20% grade would be more difficult in the
summer. Also, since in the summer you aren't carrying a lot of clothing
weight, the addition of the CamelBak is a greater percentage increase
than it would be in the winter. Just a thought.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, we do use hand weights (most of us use 5lb, maybe 10lb; while
macho instructor is probably around 20-25 lb) in some drills in my xt
class - but we're *walking* laps (snake route with about 280 ft/lap, 40
ft the longest straight line distance) most of the time (one short
*very* easy jog at end with weights low) on gymnastics floor mats. I
think I counted the reps one time and I can't remember whether it was
around 75-100 total or each arm on 6 different drills (focus on
different upper body muscles and coordination). You'd be surprised how
heavy a 3-lb weight (where most of us started and have since

progressed)

Quoted message said:

can be after that many reps with the last ones pushing straight up
(about 13 min or so for all 6 drills). But I've found it does help
loosen and strengthen upper body for actual running. (and it helps my
shoulder problem enough that I don't need to go swimming, so it's value
for running is actually secondary in my mind)

I do weight training twice a week. Just upper body exercises. Although I
like the idea of running faster over longer distances, I don't want to
look like a distance runner. OK, you can call me vain ;-). I'm already at
a very low body weight for me and I'm working on maintaining some of the
muscle. I've never carried weights on a run for the sole purpose of
strength training. I think it would really screw up my form and increase
the injury potential. I'm a firm believer in specificity of training. So
unless I enter a race that requires that I carry a dumbbell in each
hand...

Quoted message said:

But I would never ruin a good run by carrying weights 😉

Exactly!

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John
Short, South African coach.

Is that what happened to your face Rick?

Anything that might damage my joints is very important to me. This new
batch is very dry, and doesn't smoke very well.

Dot said:

Doug Freese said:

"buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just saw an article saying that running with weighted gloves (2-3
pounds per
hand) like some boxers use, made for a good workout. Any comments

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

whether this is true or not? I would imagine that it would be
strictly to
increase stamina rather than helping with any kind of running
form.........
just curious.

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on

knees

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

Weighted gloves differ substantially from a full water bottle in each
hand because a tired runner will starting drinking the water in the
bottle in each hand, but few runners would eat their gloves.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, we do use hand weights (most of us use 5lb, maybe 10lb; while
macho instructor is probably around 20-25 lb) in some drills in my xt

Quoted message said:

class - but we're *walking* laps

For *walking* laps, I would never carry less than 50 kg in each hand.
After a few months of such training, my arms lengthened by about 30 cm.
each, and even when I take the weights off, I would walk like an ape,
with my already well-developed hairy chest.

The wimmin in Oz really like that, and started to invite me to their
bedrooms to show them the other parts of my running anatomy which they
have not seen.

Quoted message said:

Dot

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're built umop-apisdn.

DF

Doug Freese said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on
knees and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

Probably not much but I still prefer the weight to be over my hips be it
a camel back or waist belt.

Ahhh, I was playing devil's advocate giving examples of how some things
that are sometimes frowned upon can actually be training for things that
might be normal for some people's running 😉 However, us believers in
specificity would carry a full water bottle or wear a camelbak (maybe
with some extra gear or extra weight) rather than just carrying weights.

Quoted message said:

And then the question is to carry one or
two. I would often see those carrying a single bottle changing hands.
Either one hand is getting bored or at least tired - subtle but a sign
of awkwardness I prefer to bypass.

About once a year I may do this with hand strap, usually because I
decided to run a little longer but didn't want waist belt or cb. I get a
really unbalanced feeling.

Quoted message said:

Most of the studies suggest that weights for runners should be used in
conjunction with movement as walking but never running for the obvious
reasons. Static weights especially for legs are valueless for the act of
running and some suggest counter productive.

Whatever I do is mostly strength training suggested by my PT (or my xt
class, which I seem to attend less and less each year), which can
progress from body weight to adding weight (I was just going to use
weights like my cb), but because of either time (work-related) or volume
(amt of running) limitations, I've never actually added weight. I've
found the specific training of running (or hiking) works better for me
and I'm less likely to do too many reps of whatever indoor drills I do.
Proprioception drills work well.

I think I probably read the same part of Noakes that you were talking
about the other day about the same time one of those special issues on
aging came out in PP or SIB. Those were both rather depressing. And my
GP will harp about weight bearing, strength training, and/or general
activity levels for women over 50. Actually, he doesn't "harp" since he
knows I enjoy most outdoor activities, but does check each year.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But I would never ruin a good run by carrying weights 😉

Save you hands to carry some new plant you find or grad some bear pepper
spray. 🙂

Don't forget the camera 🙂 These reasons are *exactly* why I prefer
hands-free running - whether it's water bottles or flashlights. Too many
other important uses for hands.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Phil M. said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from dot.h@#duh?att.net of
17 Feb 2005:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The extra weight will screw up your form and put extra stress on knees
and ankles.

For curiosity, how would weighted gloves (assuming 1 or 2 lb) differ
substantially from a full water bottle in each hand?

For one thing, the water bottle would not weigh its full weight for the
entire run, unless your intention is to just carry it as a weight and not
drink from it. The water bottles I use are 22 oz, 26 oz, or 32 oz. Never
more than 2 lbs.

Right, that's why I limited it to the 2-lb upper limit, although I was
considering that an over-weight-type training. As I mentioned to Doug, I
was also playing devil's advocate in suggesting that certain weights may
simulate a running function, although holding a hand weight (narrow) is
different hand function than holding a water bottle (fatter). The
original OP gave no indication of whether he was intending to use
something in the 1-2lb size or 25 lb or whatever, so I was limiting my
response to the low end. But I have no idea what the original poster
really intended.

Quoted message said:

I use the straps that come with the UD FastDraw water
bottles. So at least you don't have to squeeze the bottle in order to
hold on to it. These can be fastened to several brands of water bottle,
up to 32 oz in size. By the way these are on sale, at REI
http://tinyurl.com/44hse.

I've got one of their fancy ones with zip pocket, which is how I learned
I *really* don't like handhelds 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hiking with weights especially with a weight vest such that you hold
form, can help.

Or a full camelbak loaded with fluid and winter gear 😉 (for some
reason these things seem weightless in winter, but weigh a ton in
summer with first temperature changes)

My CamelBak with full fluid capacity and usual gear weighs about 5 lbs.
About 2 lbs when finished.

IIRC, mine's about 1.5 lb empty, but 10-12 lb full in winter with about
40oz of fluid. As a general rule, I carry wind pants, warmer layer,
sometimes my reliable shell if testing a new one, food, compass, minimal
1st aid, maybe extra socks, yaktrax, camera, gps, etc. While some is not
essential, my long range goals (couple years yet) involve a 50 mi jaunt
through the woods and above treeline without aid stations (but streams
that *might* be usable as water source with purification). Even with
more efficient gear, I think the weight will probably still end up in
that range.

When I first started noticing the weight last "spring" when weather
warmed up, I dumped out the pack to see what was in there. I think I
found about 2-3 lb of things that were in the 1-4oz range 😉 This is
why I want to keep better track of usefulness / weight and looking at
getting digital scale.

With the weight over my hips, it is hardly

Quoted message said:

noticeable. However, this wasn't always the case. I've had it for over a
year now. When I first got it, there was some adjustment that I made
(subconsciously?) to minimize the up and down motion in my running style.
I haven't noticed the difference between winter and summer.

A lot of it, I'm sure, is the lack of spring here. Summer came fast and
furious last year (almost hypothermic on Tues night because of wind,
dying of heat on Thurs night) and was a record-setter for heat (anything
above 70F / 22 C). I don't feel like I ever got heat adapted last year.
I don't remember having the problem in the past, but I couldn't run as
much in past summers. I start slowing down or getting more tired when
temps get above 40F/5C. But I know I've run hill repeats (about 20-30%
slope, no pack) in temps close to 90F the previous summer, with
relatively little problem, considering my inexperience in warmer
temperatures. This summer will be interesting.

That's why I got the lobo when I did last spring - it could carry what I
needed for a 2-hr summer race. I'm slow enough without an anchor.

Quoted message said:

I do weight training twice a week. Just upper body exercises. Although I
like the idea of running faster over longer distances, I don't want to
look like a distance runner. OK, you can call me vain ;-). I'm already at
a very low body weight for me and I'm working on maintaining some of the
muscle. I've never carried weights on a run for the sole purpose of
strength training. I think it would really screw up my form and increase
the injury potential. I'm a firm believer in specificity of training. So
unless I enter a race that requires that I carry a dumbbell in each
hand...

yep! Some strength training I do is running related, the rest is more
general health recommendations as get older.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from dot.h@#duh?att.net of
20 Feb 2005:

Quoted message said:

Right, that's why I limited it to the 2-lb upper limit, although I was
considering that an over-weight-type training. As I mentioned to Doug,
I was also playing devil's advocate in suggesting that certain weights
may simulate a running function, although holding a hand weight
(narrow) is different hand function than holding a water bottle
(fatter).

I think the bottle with a FastDraw strap may be easier, given that
minimal gripping is required.

Quoted message said:

The original OP gave no indication of whether he was intending to use
something in the 1-2lb size or 25 lb or whatever, so I was limiting my
response to the low end. But I have no idea what the original poster
really intended.

Isn't this what we usually do, take the OPs post and "run" with it?
Especially if we're talking running gear. The OP is probably wondering
how we got off on such a digression. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use the straps that come with the UD FastDraw water
bottles. So at least you don't have to squeeze the bottle in order to
hold on to it. These can be fastened to several brands of water
bottle, up to 32 oz in size. By the way these are on sale, at REI
http://tinyurl.com/44hse.

I've got one of their fancy ones with zip pocket

That's what those on sale are - FastDraw plus. I use the pouch if I need
to bring along some ibuprofen and/or succeed!. The straps for the
FastDraw plus are a little bigger than the standard straps. That's why it
fits nicely on a 32 oz Rubbermaid that I use. On my long runs I'm usually
using a combination of the 50 oz FlashFlo with enough bottles dropped to
get me through the distance. I haven't bothered trying to find another
Camelbak that will hold enough fluid (100 oz) and not bug the heck out of
me while I'm running. You may recall I tried the Lobo with little success
or patience to try it again.

Quoted message said:

which is how I learned I *really* don't like handhelds 😉

I guess, like anything it takes a little practice. IIRC, you didn't like
the sloshing sound of the bottles because it might disturb mama moose.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My CamelBak with full fluid capacity and usual gear weighs about 5
lbs. About 2 lbs when finished.

IIRC, mine's about 1.5 lb empty, but 10-12 lb full in winter with
about 40oz of fluid. As a general rule, I carry wind pants, warmer
layer, sometimes my reliable shell if testing a new one, food,
compass, minimal 1st aid, maybe extra socks, yaktrax, camera, gps,
etc.

I can't imagine trying to train for distance running in Alaska. Every
long run turns into an epic event. If something bad happens on a long run
where I live, I just stop at the nearest QuickTrip gas station. It seems
like there's one every 2 miles or so.

Quoted message said:

While some is not essential, my long range goals (couple years
yet) involve a 50 mi jaunt through the woods and above treeline
without aid stations (but streams that *might* be usable as water
source with purification). Even with more efficient gear, I think the
weight will probably still end up in that range.

Now there's your epic event. Is this something you'll do on your own, or
an existing event?

Quoted message said:

When I first started noticing the weight last "spring" when weather
warmed up, I dumped out the pack to see what was in there. I think I
found about 2-3 lb of things that were in the 1-4oz range 😉 This is
why I want to keep better track of usefulness / weight and looking at
getting digital scale.

The scale I use (SALTER HOUSEWARES Aquatronic Kitchen Scale
http://tinyurl.com/4wf2e) was one I used for weighing all my food when I
was loosing weight. It works well for most things up to 12 pounds. The
feature I like the most is the ability to zero out the weight so that you
can add more ingredients to the recipe while using the same bowl. It
virtually eliminates measuring cups. But it could be a bit awkward to use
when weighing your 12+ lb pack.

Quoted message said:

yep! Some strength training I do is running related, the rest is more
general health recommendations as get older.

Yeah, well that too.

Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from dot.h@#duh?att.net of
20 Feb 2005:

Quoted message said:

Right, that's why I limited it to the 2-lb upper limit, although I was
considering that an over-weight-type training. As I mentioned to Doug,
I was also playing devil's advocate in suggesting that certain weights
may simulate a running function, although holding a hand weight
(narrow) is different hand function than holding a water bottle
(fatter).

I think the bottle with a FastDraw strap may be easier, given that
minimal gripping is required.

Right. I was referring to the thinness of middle section of handweight
vs fatness of bottle and amount of opening needed in hand. In PT for
shoulder, I realized the narrow section of a handweight is much easier
to wrap a hand around than a 16-oz can (yea, I know, most are only
14-15.5 oz, but cranberries are 16 oz), esp. if had had tendonitis in
thumbs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The original OP gave no indication of whether he was intending to use
something in the 1-2lb size or 25 lb or whatever, so I was limiting my
response to the low end. But I have no idea what the original poster
really intended.

Isn't this what we usually do, take the OPs post and "run" with it?
Especially if we're talking running gear. The OP is probably wondering
how we got off on such a digression. ;-)

That's what makes r.r what it is 🙂 People need to learn to be specific
in their questions or they risk generating threads run amuck 😉

Quoted message said:

You may recall I tried the Lobo with little success
or patience to try it again.

Mine's sitting there for another couple months waiting for the
don't-need-to-carry-winter-gear season.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which is how I learned I *really* don't like handhelds 😉

I guess, like anything it takes a little practice. IIRC, you didn't like
the sloshing sound of the bottles because it might disturb mama moose.

I don't like drinking from bottles. I esp. don't like hand carrying
them. I also don't like the sloshing. I don't like the way they freeze
so dang fast (had one almost freeze on a short run the other day -
sucked hard enough to free it again). Even in the car, I'll use the
twist tops of gatorade bottles rather than UD-type bottles.

The local mama moose does follow me these days - but she's enclosed in a
10-acre moose-proof fence for a study - along with 3 calves (not hers).
The other day I was talking with the guy that's doing the research with
them, and he got a kick out of them following me while running. When he
trained elk and mule deer for his grad work, he used to train them to
run after him to get them back to wherever. Eventually, they started
ignoring him, and he had to go through assorted tricks to get them back.
Finally, they got so they led the way back and expected him to follow -
at their pace 😉

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine trying to train for distance running in Alaska.

I'm not sure how most people up here train since I don't know that many,
but it's certainly possible to do loops by car every so often like Doug
does, and I may when my runs get to be 5+ hrs long (awhile yet). But
many people that run trails up here are looking to get away from
trailheads and prefer to just go and come back when done. The Anchorage
ultra runners have a training run most Thurs nights (starting at 6pm)
year round (unless tapering / recovering from a 100) 2-4 hrs, which
sometimes requires ice axes. I'm not sure how much they carry with them
in general. Our snowshoe group has gone on 5 hr runs out/back (no snow
for ss on those, but our leader was training for Su100), and those of us
who aren't up to that volume yet, just turn around when it's our limit.
Some people only going out for 1-2 hr may carry nothing besides a water
bottle. I carry my pack for 1.5+ hr. It's just a difference in mental
attitudes (color me wimpy).

Something I learned early is that one mistake doesn't kill ya. It
usually takes at least 3. Unfortunately, we usually don't recognize the
first 2. When I run trails alone, I know I'm taking a certain level of
risk, but trying to be prepared for the most likely things hopefully
reduces / eliminates the damage level if something goes wrong. I usually
try to run carefully enough that reduces the hazards, although sometimes
curiousity gets the better of me when investigating new trails. But I
still feel like I'm taking a greater risk driving to Anchorage.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While some is not essential, my long range goals (couple years
yet) involve a 50 mi jaunt through the woods and above treeline
without aid stations (but streams that *might* be usable as water
source with purification). Even with more efficient gear, I think the
weight will probably still end up in that range.

Now there's your epic event. Is this something you'll do on your own, or
an existing event?

Existing event - point to point. They also have a 100-mi big brother to
go with it now - out/back on same trail. Since adding the 100, they've
added drop bags at mile 38 of the 50 (where trail meets dirt /gravel
road that the last 12 mi are on) and 50 miles = turnaround for the 100.
I'm going to try to volunteer this summer (no field work!!) so I can get
a feeling for the trail as well as what gear most people use, etc. In
particular, how do they handle the water situation - haul it, chemicals,
filter, etc.

Quoted message said:

The scale I use (SALTER HOUSEWARES Aquatronic Kitchen Scale
http://tinyurl.com/4wf2e) was one I used for weighing all my food when I
was loosing weight. It works well for most things up to 12 pounds. The
feature I like the most is the ability to zero out the weight so that you
can add more ingredients to the recipe while using the same bowl. It
virtually eliminates measuring cups. But it could be a bit awkward to use
when weighing your 12+ lb pack.

Thanks. This one gets me up to about 15 lb.
http://www.digitalscale.com/7001t.htm
I could also get a hanging scale for the pack or stand with it on
bathroom scale if there was a smaller scale I preferred for the
individual items. I might be heading into Anchorage in a couple weeks so
might wait until after then.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)