Rttc was bloody AUK;

[druidh]

wafflycat wrote:
>
> "druidh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> But why does it all have to take place as some sort of "race" anyway?
>> What's wrong with just going for a good cycle?
>>
>>
>> druidh
>
>
> Because we aren't all the same.
> Because it's done safely with no massed start.
> Because a lot of people enjoy it.
> Because it's a simple way of testing yourself on a bike over a specific
> distance.
> Because there simply aren't road races or circuit races in some parts of
> the country so it's the only form of competitive cycling available to many.
> Because entry fees to events is cheap (£6.50 per adult approx).
> Because if you don't have the finances for specialist equipment, fairy
> nuff, a set of clip on bars for under £35.00 will convert your bike into
> one you can TT on...
>
> Cheers, helen s
>
>
>
>
>
If I replaced bike/cycle with car or motorcycle in the above
paragraph???????




druidh

 

[Arthur Clune]

MartinM wrote:
>
> not at all, many lower distance Audax events have gotten very sporting
> (if you wish to do so) since the mudguard rule was dropped. And there's

Sort of, but it's not a race. Even a "sporting" audax is still slow
in race terms since it's got that upper speed limit, cafe stops etc.

Personally this year it's very likely I'll only do club TTs, sportifies
and the odd audax so I sort of agree with you.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

 

[Arthur Clune]

MartinM wrote:
>> TLI organise Australian Pursuits, which work for all levels. Much the
>> best option for most people.
>
> heard of this, could you give some details please?

Handicap road races - slowest group starts first, then
the next after 2 mins say. Usually there'll be 3 or 4
groups depending on the size of the field.

The main benift is that it avoids that situation where
someone trys a 3/4 race and gets shelled out in the first
lap.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, wafflycat
('w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com') wrote:

> Because if you don't have the finances for specialist
> equipment, fairy nuff, a set of clip on bars for under £35.00 will
> convert your bike into one you can TT on...

You don't need clip-ons to time trial. Plenty of people in my club time
trial on mountain bikes, even when time trialling on the road. Indeed
this year we're adding a special trophy for people who time trial using
knobbly tyres, because (obviously) they can't compete with those using
slicks.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:

>> TLI organise Australian Pursuits, which work for all levels. Much the
>> best option for most people.
>
> heard of this, could you give some details please?

The /theory/ of an Australian Pursuit is that you handicap the riders,
and let them away individually slowest first, as in a time trial but
with times chosen so that all should reach the finish together. In
practice they seem to divide the riders into groups of roughly equal
ability, and let these groups away together.

It's fun and certainly a good means of doing road racing with
mixed-ability groups, but whether a mass finish race is a better thing
on a public road than a mass start race I wouldn't like to say.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.

 

[wafflycat]

"druidh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat wrote:
>>
>> "druidh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>
>>> But why does it all have to take place as some sort of "race" anyway?
>>> What's wrong with just going for a good cycle?
>>>
>>>
>>> druidh
>>
>>
>> Because we aren't all the same.
>> Because it's done safely with no massed start.
>> Because a lot of people enjoy it.
>> Because it's a simple way of testing yourself on a bike over a specific
>> distance.
>> Because there simply aren't road races or circuit races in some parts of
>> the country so it's the only form of competitive cycling available to
>> many.
>> Because entry fees to events is cheap (£6.50 per adult approx).
>> Because if you don't have the finances for specialist equipment, fairy
>> nuff, a set of clip on bars for under £35.00 will convert your bike into
>> one you can TT on...
>>
>> Cheers, helen s
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> If I replaced bike/cycle with car or motorcycle in the above
> paragraph???????
>

So. It's not illegal to cycle and there's no things like speed limits
broken, so err... chalk & cheese.

Cheers, helen s

 

[MartinM]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>,
> MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> >> TLI organise Australian Pursuits, which work for all levels. Much the
> >> best option for most people.
> >
> > heard of this, could you give some details please?
>
> The /theory/ of an Australian Pursuit is that you handicap the riders,
> and let them away individually slowest first, as in a time trial but
> with times chosen so that all should reach the finish together. In
> practice they seem to divide the riders into groups of roughly equal
> ability, and let these groups away together.
>
> It's fun and certainly a good means of doing road racing with
> mixed-ability groups, but whether a mass finish race is a better thing
> on a public road than a mass start race I wouldn't like to say.

Thanks; sounds like a handicap RR; did one of these once,
unfortunately the winner was in my slowest group and I was shelled very
soon. Good fun though trying to stay ahead of the peleton. This was in
the days when you could buy a 3 race licence for £10, BC did away with
this idea so it was left to shell out £50+, plus £10-15 an event, an
expensive hobby IMO.

 

[MartinM]

triddletree wrote:
> > No wonder it's a dying sport.
>
> The age of most competitors will assist its demise ;-)
>
> The sooner this excuse for a 'sport' is taken off the public highways
> the better.

If anything TTing is safer that a lot of cycling as ;
1. It's usually done early in the morning
2. Only one rider to overtake and he/ she's also riding nearer whatever
speed the cars are driving (unless he/she's on a dual carriageway which
is becoming more widespread with courses through traffic calmed
villages being stopped)

 

[triddletree]

MartinM wrote:
> triddletree wrote:
>
>>>No wonder it's a dying sport.
>>
>>The age of most competitors will assist its demise ;-)
>>
>>The sooner this excuse for a 'sport' is taken off the public highways
>>the better.
>
>
> If anything TTing is safer that a lot of cycling as ;
> 1. It's usually done early in the morning

In my area most events are in the evenings. not quite at rush hour but
shortly after. These are also the Club events where the least
experienced riders will be competing.

Open events are mainly over by 11am on the local near motorway standard
holiday route, but still many (most weekends)are held over the full
afternoon, often with two events back to back sharing the road with the
heavy traffic off to coast especially in the Summer.

Quite why cyclists are allowed to race on such roads I do not know when
other racing is banned. IMO it is very difficult to concentrate fully on
road safety aspects of riding when your mind is concentrating on going
fast above all else.

That the national body allows 12 year olds to mix with 70mph traffic on
dual carriageways is quite unbelievable. It says so much for the
responsibility of much of the TT world.

tt

 

[Mark Thompson]

> That the national body allows 12 year olds <snippity>

I think that is something the parents/guardians should have responsibility
for.

Has anyone got any stats to back up their prejudices?

 

[wafflycat]

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>> That the national body allows 12 year olds <snippity>
>
> I think that is something the parents/guardians should have responsibility
> for.
>
> Has anyone got any stats to back up their prejudices?

Put it this way... Nathan is often the only junior in events and he's out
doing an open, sometimes two, almost every weekend during the TT season.
Plus, the 'fast' courses are safer than the 'sporting' courses - counter to
'common sense' but that's the reality.

Cheers, helen s

 

[triddletree]

Mark Thompson wrote:
>>That the national body allows 12 year olds <snippity>
>
>
> I think that is something the parents/guardians should have responsibility
> for.
>
> Has anyone got any stats to back up their prejudices?

I don't think you can call a concern about 12-year olds being permitted
to race on major trunk roads amongst heavy commercial and holiday
traffic a prejudice.
IMO a parent who allows a child to participate in such an activity would
not be acting in a responsible manner. Of course your view may differ.

However, I'd prefer the national organisation set more responsible rules
for its 'sport' but while it doesn't, it, and those who participate,
send all the wrong messages about cycling to those who come across the
events.

tt

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:

>
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> in message <[email protected]>,
>> MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:
>>
>> >> TLI organise Australian Pursuits, which work for all levels. Much
>> >> the best option for most people.
>> >
>> > heard of this, could you give some details please?
>>
>> The /theory/ of an Australian Pursuit is that you handicap the riders,
>> and let them away individually slowest first, as in a time trial but
>> with times chosen so that all should reach the finish together. In
>> practice they seem to divide the riders into groups of roughly equal
>> ability, and let these groups away together.
>>
>> It's fun and certainly a good means of doing road racing with
>> mixed-ability groups, but whether a mass finish race is a better thing
>> on a public road than a mass start race I wouldn't like to say.
>
> Thanks; sounds like a handicap RR; did one of these once,
> unfortunately the winner was in my slowest group and I was shelled very
> soon. Good fun though trying to stay ahead of the peleton. This was in
> the days when you could buy a 3 race licence for £10, BC did away with
> this idea so it was left to shell out £50+, plus £10-15 an event, an
> expensive hobby IMO.

That's why the TLI is good. Don't need a licence.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Roburt Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

 

[Mark Thompson]

> IMO a parent who allows a child to participate in such an activity
> would not be acting in a responsible manner.

Why not (genuine question)?

 

[MartinM]

triddletree wrote:

> In my area most events are in the evenings. not quite at rush hour but
> shortly after. These are also the Club events where the least
> experienced riders will be competing.

I agree those should be on quiet out of the way roads, ours rarely has
a car even overtaking riders; for evening 10's overall time is less
important that being faster than the other riders on the same course

> Quite why cyclists are allowed to race on such roads I do not know when
> other racing is banned. IMO it is very difficult to concentrate fully on
> road safety aspects of riding when your mind is concentrating on going
> fast above all else.

IMBW but is it not just motorised racing that's banned?; running,
cycling and horse and trap is legal AFAIK.

I had a disgraceful bit of riding a couple of years ago for which I
make no apologies on an event I was marshalling; a rider crossed both
white lines on the corner I was on then swore at me for not stopping
the traffic, he was not one of our club and fortunately has not been
back since. But the majority of riders I see whilst marshalling put
their lives before their time. The biggest danger are the cars who pay
no attention to marshalls and riders who are riding legally.

 

[Phil Cook]

MartinM wrote:

>triddletree wrote:

>> Quite why cyclists are allowed to race on such roads I do not know when
>> other racing is banned. IMO it is very difficult to concentrate fully on
>> road safety aspects of riding when your mind is concentrating on going
>> fast above all else.

I never had any problem concentrating on my safety as I was going
eyeballs out. It's no good getting dnf due to an accident.

>IMBW but is it not just motorised racing that's banned?; running,
>cycling and horse and trap is legal AFAIK.

Cycle racing is permitted under two different sets of regulations, one
for TTs and one for road races. As for TTs you still have to obey the
rules of the road including stop and give way signs.

>I had a disgraceful bit of riding a couple of years ago for which I
>make no apologies on an event I was marshalling; a rider crossed both
>white lines on the corner I was on then swore at me for not stopping
>the traffic, he was not one of our club and fortunately has not been
>back since. But the majority of riders I see whilst marshalling put
>their lives before their time. The biggest danger are the cars who pay
>no attention to marshalls and riders who are riding legally.

IIRC marshals in TT events are there solely to indicate the direction
the rider should take. They have no powers to stop the traffic. As for
marshals in road races they don't have those powers either but I have
marshaled in races with police supervision where we have been asked to
stop the traffic and it is much easier to bend the rules when you have
a bunch of riders spreading themselves over the road rather than a
single rider wanting to take a corner. Indeed last week I was
marshalling a road race and we stopped the traffic for the bunch but
left the ones off the back largely to their own devices as far as
oncoming traffic was concerned, just shouting "clear" to them if the
road was clear and "keep in" if it wasn't.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[Douglas Steel]

MartinM wrote:
> triddletree wrote:
>
>>Quite why cyclists are allowed to race on such roads I do not know when
>>other racing is banned. IMO it is very difficult to concentrate fully on
>>road safety aspects of riding when your mind is concentrating on going
>>fast above all else.
>
>
> IMBW but is it not just motorised racing that's banned?; running,
> cycling and horse and trap is legal AFAIK.

That depends on the type of motor racing involved - road rallying
which is a time trial event is still allowed on open public roads.

See:
http://www.ukmotorsport.com/road_rally.html

If it is allowed for motor cars then why not for cyclists
so long as they are well regulated ?

What is banned on open public roads for both motor vehicles and
cyclists are mass start races. For these you need special permission
from the authorities and probably a road clisure (maybe a rolling
closure).

Doug

 

[Arthur Clune]

wafflycat wrote:

> Plus, the 'fast' courses are safer than the 'sporting' courses - counter to
> 'common sense' but that's the reality.

I'm very unconvinced by the RTTC arguments on this one. People crash on 'sporting'
courses yes, but not usually seriously. I take it that Nathen is looking to ride
'fast' courses and improve his times?

I think we did all the arguments before

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk...rec.cycling+author:arthur+author:clune&hl=en&

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

 

[MartinM]

Phil Cook wrote:

> IIRC marshals in TT events are there solely to indicate the direction
> the rider should take. They have no powers to stop the traffic. As for
> marshals in road races they don't have those powers either but I have
> marshaled in races with police supervision where we have been asked to
> stop the traffic

That's definitely the case;on the corner we marshall we are there
mainly to draw attention to other road users that something is going
on. I will shout "clear" or "easy" to the oncoming rider depending on
the road conditions but it's ultimately up to the rider to check the
junction before he turns. We have a rule that anyone who crosses either
white line (ie into potential oncoming traffic) is disqualified. Plus
there's often gravem on the corner.

The Surrey League events I have marshalled involve a bloke plonking his
motorbike in the middle of the road a full minute before the riders
arrive; this invariably results in a hold up of the cars. Presumably
the police are happy with it.

 

[wafflycat]

"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat wrote:
>
>> Plus, the 'fast' courses are safer than the 'sporting' courses - counter
>> to
>> 'common sense' but that's the reality.
>
> I'm very unconvinced by the RTTC arguments on this one. People crash on
> 'sporting'
> courses yes, but not usually seriously. I take it that Nathen is looking
> to ride
> 'fast' courses and improve his times?
>

You can take what you want, but you'd be wrong. Nathan isn't fast enough for
'fast' courses. He does mostly SPOCO courses. Have gone over the Unfit
Family ethos to cycling many times before - he competes against *himself* on
whatever course he's on.

Cheers, helen s