Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

RR: Just got spanked

Started by Dean A. Stepper · · Last activity · 31 posts · 10,875 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
11 June 2004
Last activity
16 June 2004
Original author
Dean A. Stepper
Posts
31
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  1. I live in Laguna Beach and ride all the local trails....El
    Moro, Laguna Wilderness Park and Aliso Woods and for the
    most part can clear them all without a problem..in fact
    they are not the challenge they once where. I can go up and
    down San Juan Trail with no problems so I am a basic
    intermediate rider.

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican
    Ridge, Newport Beach. If you don't know Orange County, many
    of the trails are loose dirt on top of limestone bedrock,
    with small and large loose rocks spread around to keep
    things interesting...oh ya! the rain runoff ruts making the
    line inches wide in places. So I drop in and am doing fine,
    computer says and the grade is 34 degrees downhill with the
    above trail conditions. OK I think, not too bad. Come to the
    next steep section and decide to not any worse than the
    last; expect for this two foot limestone drop half way down
    the trail. With the 37 degree downhill and the 2 ft. drop I
    went endo. Scraps and scratches nothing major except trust
    in my biking abilities. The dust on the stanchions shows
    that I bottomed out 6 inches of travel on my Maverick Fork.
    Apparently 85 pounds of air in the fork is not enough for my
    weight (220lbs). Plus I have a bad habit of not getting my
    ass back far enough. Well first endo on the 5-spot after 2
    years and 1,600 miles of dirt. Ok dust off and see what the
    rest of the trail has to offer hoping the worst is behind.
    Now the stuff I know I could clear I hesitate on and try to
    step off the bike....too steep, too loose. tangled up in the
    bike and in the dirt and bushes again. So I finish the ride
    walking some stuff thinking I will come back but next time
    with some plastic courage. Well after a few weeks of get my
    trust back on familiar trails.

  2. Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote: (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.


    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't ride
    illegal trails. Go ride a legal trail and post a ride
    report. Even better, do that then pledge to "poach no more."

    Tom

  3. On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:


    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    --
    monique

  4. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.


    hehehe

    Dean, spanked twice in the same evening; it's your
    lucky night!

    --
    Slacker

  5. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no
    legal trails in Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in
    the Laguna Wilderness, Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's
    it. In contrast there are perhaps hundreds of illegal
    trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal trails are
    quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some level
    of official "ignore" policy- otherwise they would have been
    shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the clandestine
    trails. That IS the local culture.

    Miles

  6. tcmedara said:

    Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote: (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't
    ride illegal trails. Go ride a legal trail and post a
    ride report. Even better, do that then pledge to "poach
    no more."

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to
    ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it
    proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  7. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    Oh please, if we keep cowing to equestrians and hikers the
    only legal trail will be the boardwalk at the beach.

    Greg
    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  8. On 2004-06-11, miles todd penned:

    Quoted message said:
    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no
    legal trails in Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in
    the Laguna Wilderness, Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's
    it. In contrast there are perhaps hundreds of illegal
    trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal trails are
    quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some
    level of official "ignore" policy- otherwise they would
    have been shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the
    clandestine trails. That IS the local culture.

    That may be the culture, but it stinks. I have a major
    problem with the idea that just because a law isn't enforced
    means that the status quo is okay. Any law on the books has
    the potential to be enforced, and lack of enforcement in the
    past is no defense. (Obviously this goes beyond the mountain
    biking world.) A hiker who isn't aware that mtbers say it's
    okay is still going to get [censored] when s/he sees a bike on a
    pedestrian-only trail, and will act accordingly.

    If there are no legal trails in Laguna Beach, why did he
    bother to specifically point out its illegality? Sounds
    like, if anything, he's trying to sound all badass by adding
    in that detail. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach environment. I
    don't know what it's like there. But I stand by my belief
    that poaching will, in the long run, just get everybody in
    trouble. Much better to fight for your rights.

    --
    monique

  9. miles todd said:


    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no
    legal trails in Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in
    the Laguna Wilderness, Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's
    it. In contrast there are perhaps hundreds of illegal
    trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal trails are
    quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some
    level of official "ignore" policy- otherwise they would
    have been shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the
    clandestine trails. That IS the local culture.

    Miles


    This is true.

    A little nod, wink, a nap, and just about anything is
    possible poopworld.net1334
    monkey.swf

    --
    Slacker

  10. On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    Oh please, if we keep cowing to equestrians and hikers the
    only legal trail will be the boardwalk at the beach.

    And by riding on trails illegally, we'll somehow
    convince them that we're responsible enough to be
    allowed on more trails?

    C'mon, Greg. That doesn't make sense.

    --
    monique

  11. On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to
    ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it
    proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point
    across. What works in one case may not work in another. Rosa
    Parks was a right time, right place kind of scenario. I
    respect what she did, but do you honestly think that's the
    first time a black person ever tried to sit at the front of
    the bus? If she had been a big black man rather than a
    photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have engendered
    the same results? The political climate was changing. She
    was the first to say that she was only one of many people
    who made things happen, and she was active in many other,
    completely legal ways.

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably
    toward mountain bikes right now.

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more harm
    than good. It's bad PR. It reinforces the public opinion
    that mountain bikers are all disrespectful, juvenile punks
    (no matter the age). It's not a matter of being conformant;
    it's about doing what works.

    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being
    cheerful and friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try
    to undo the opinion they may have formed based on
    previous experiences with careless (as in, "Couldn't
    care less"😉 bikers.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when one
    equestrian is talking to another and the topic of mountain
    biking comes up, one of them will say, "Oh, I don't know --
    I've met some really considerate mountain bikers. You can't
    judge the whole lot by a few bad apples."

    --
    monique

  12. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach
    environment. I don't know what it's like there. But I
    stand by my belief that poaching will, in the long run,
    just get everybody in trouble. Much better to fight for
    your rights.


    Laguna is a very wealthy community and there are many high
    (and not so high) profile pro's that live there/around the
    area. The trails, legal or not, are not going anywhere.
    That's just the way it is.

    Look at it like a freeway. The max speed limit is 65 mph,
    but on a lighter traffic day, if you were doing less than 85
    in the fast lane you'd get your ass kicked.

    Go with the flow, baby.
    --
    Slacker

  13. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    Much better to fight for your rights.

    Tell me how, after attending land use meetings, writing the
    relevant parks depts, and writing my senators and
    congressperson, still losing large swaths of land left and
    right, how else am I to fight for my rights? By twiddling
    my thumbs?

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  14. I do understand your point Monique and that you are
    unfamiliar with this area. We are not talking public parks
    land but strips of unusable steep terrain that in some
    places we do not know if city, county or private property.
    If it were posted as illegal or no trespassing, I for one
    would not use them. Trails in Laguna area are biking only
    trails. They are too steep, loose and nasty for hiking and
    never used by horses. Many of them way over my skill level.
    I look at some of them and wonder that they can be ridden at
    all. Park Rangers think we are crazy and the private land
    (Irvine Company) has lost interest as all of their prime
    land has been devolved. Mountain biking in Laguna goes way
    back and the trail system was made by mountain bikers for
    mountain biking. I have yet to meet anyone that has received
    a trespassing ticket. That is because it is part of our
    "local culture".

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper
    to ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems
    it proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point
    across. What works in one case may not work in another.
    Rosa Parks was a right time, right place kind of scenario.
    I respect what she did, but do you honestly think that's
    the first time a black person ever tried to sit at the
    front of the bus? If she had been a big black man rather
    than a photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have
    engendered the same results? The political climate was
    changing. She was the first to say that she was only one
    of many people who made things happen, and she was active
    in many other, completely legal ways.

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably
    toward mountain bikes right now.

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more
    harm than good. It's bad PR. It reinforces the public
    opinion that mountain bikers are all disrespectful,
    juvenile punks (no matter the age). It's not a matter of
    being conformant; it's about doing what works.

    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being
    cheerful and friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try
    to undo the opinion they may have formed based on
    previous experiences with careless (as in, "Couldn't
    care less"😉 bikers.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when
    one equestrian is talking to another and the topic of
    mountain biking comes up, one of them will say, "Oh, I
    don't know -- I've met some really considerate mountain
    bikers. You can't judge the whole lot by a few bad
    apples."

    --
    monique

  15. in article [email hidden], Monique Y. Mudama at
    [email hidden] wrote on 6/10/04 10:16 PM:

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, miles todd penned:

    Quoted message said:
    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    > So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    > Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no
    legal trails in Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each
    in the Laguna Wilderness, Aliso, and Moro parks, but
    that's it. In contrast there are perhaps hundreds of
    illegal trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal
    trails are quite famous and well used. In fact, so much
    so that I almost have to imagine that many of them
    receive some level of official "ignore" policy- otherwise
    they would have been shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the
    clandestine trails. That IS the local culture.

    That may be the culture, but it stinks. I have a major
    problem with the idea that just because a law isn't
    enforced means that the status quo is okay. Any law on the
    books has the potential to be enforced, and lack of
    enforcement in the past is no defense. (Obviously this
    goes beyond the mountain biking world.) A hiker who isn't
    aware that mtbers say it's okay is still going to get
    [censored] when s/he sees a bike on a pedestrian-only trail,
    and will act accordingly.

    If there are no legal trails in Laguna Beach, why did he
    bother to specifically point out its illegality? Sounds
    like, if anything, he's trying to sound all badass by
    adding in that detail. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach
    environment. I don't know what it's like there. But I
    stand by my belief that poaching will, in the long run,
    just get everybody in trouble. Much better to fight for
    your rights.

    --
    monique

    That is more than a spanking, that is a whipping! Where is
    Sorni, he needs the cat o'nine tails!

    Mtbchip

  16. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to
    ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it
    proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your
    point across.

    Umm, you know what Mudama, I've been involved in land use
    issues since 1976 and know when being a sheep no longer
    works. So don't even bother trying to preach to me.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  17. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to
    ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it
    proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point
    across. What works in one case may not work in another.
    Rosa Parks was a right time, right place kind of scenario.
    I respect what she did, but do you honestly think that's
    the first time a black person ever tried to sit at the
    front of the bus? If she had been a big black man rather
    than a photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have
    engendered the same results? The political climate was
    changing. She was the first to say that she was only one
    of many people who made things happen, and she was active
    in many other, completely legal ways.

    But you would have no civil disobedience.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably
    toward mountain bikes right now.

    It's definitely changing favorably but that doesn't mean
    that we don't continue to be lumped together with motor
    vehicles and locked out of wilderness area.

    Quoted message said:

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more
    harm than good. It's bad PR.

    I don't poach trails.

    Quoted message said:


    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being
    cheerful and friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try
    to undo the opinion they may have formed based on
    previous experiences with careless (as in, "Couldn't
    care less"😉 bikers.

    Who said I wasn't cheerful and friendly to hikers and
    equestrians? I get more flack from hikers on open trails
    than I do from hikers on the closed trails that I ride. Why?
    Because the closed trails are back country trails that were
    originally open to mtn bikes and they're so remote and
    little travelled that any hiker, equestrian, or mtn biker is
    happy to see someone else.

    Quoted message said:


    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when
    one equestrian is talking to another and the topic of
    mountain biking comes up, one of them will say, "Oh, I
    don't know -- I've met some really considerate mountain
    bikers. You can't judge the whole lot by a few bad
    apples."

    You're really confusing two entirely different issues. My
    encounters on the trail are always positive except when I
    meet up with some moron hiker or equestrian who thinks they
    own the trail even when it's multi-use.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  18. Please save your outrage and over reaction for when it is
    appropriate. One of my riding partners is an FBI agent and
    another a Superior Court Judge. We run across many off duty
    Sheriff officers on our illegal trail system all riding
    mountain bikes. Sometimes we ask questions and find out the
    circumstances before accusing someone. I am sorry if I
    offended your sense or righteousness. But I do not feel I
    did anything wrong. It is you applying your experiences and
    your local culture on me. I do not ride illegal trails in
    State/Federal protected areas or sensitive areas that would
    cause problems to the biking community.

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:


    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers
    look like [censored]. I'll be sure to express my
    appreciation when I find myself banned from my favorite,
    currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    --
    monique

  19. G.T. said:
    tcmedara said:

    Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote: (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on
    Pelican Ridge, Newport Beach.

    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't
    ride illegal trails. Go ride a legal trail and post a
    ride report. Even better, do that then pledge to "poach
    no more."

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to
    ride, not oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it
    proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa Parks didn't have your
    conformant attitude.

    Greg

    Comparing closed mountain biking trails to segregation?
    That's a stretch. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that
    the moral imperatives involved don't quite equate.

    Tom

  20. On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    Please save your outrage and over reaction for when it is
    appropriate. One of my riding partners is an FBI agent and
    another a Superior Court Judge. We run across many off
    duty Sheriff officers on our illegal trail system all
    riding mountain bikes. Sometimes we ask questions and find
    out the circumstances before accusing someone. I am sorry
    if I offended your sense or righteousness. But I do not
    feel I did anything wrong. It is you applying your
    experiences and your local culture on me. I do not ride
    illegal trails in State/Federal protected areas or
    sensitive areas that would cause problems to the biking
    community.

    Okay. Okay.

    Can I ask you something, then?

    Why did you make a point of saying that you were on an
    illegal trail in the very first sentence of your RR? Does
    illegal have a completely different meaning in Laguna?

    Seriously. I think we're having a language issue here. Do
    people in your area use the term "illegal" to mean a set of
    trails that are abandoned and unloved? I'm especially
    confused because in the above quote, you sound like you're
    making a distinction between "illegal trails that are fine
    to ride" and "illegal trails that are bad to ride."

    I've apparently made a mistake because I don't know the
    area, but that being said, your language was really
    misleading to anyone not familiar with your area's
    terminology.

    I mean, I wouldn't make a point of saying I was "illegally
    parked" unless I was expressing the fact that I wasn't
    supposed to be there and that I was risking a ticket ...

    --
    monique

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