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RR: Just got spanked

Started by Dean A. Stepper · · Last activity · 32 posts · 741 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
11 June 2004
Last activity
16 June 2004
Original author
Dean A. Stepper
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32
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  1. I live in Laguna Beach and ride all the local trails....El Moro, Laguna
    Wilderness Park and Aliso Woods and for the most part can clear them all
    without a problem..in fact they are not the challenge they once where. I
    can go up and down San Juan Trail with no problems so I am a basic
    intermediate rider.

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge, Newport
    Beach. If you don't know Orange County, many of the trails are loose dirt
    on top of limestone bedrock, with small and large loose rocks spread around
    to keep things interesting...oh ya! the rain runoff ruts making the line
    inches wide in places. So I drop in and am doing fine, computer says and
    the grade is 34 degrees downhill with the above trail conditions. OK I
    think, not too bad. Come to the next steep section and decide to not any
    worse than the last; expect for this two foot limestone drop half way down
    the trail. With the 37 degree downhill and the 2 ft. drop I went endo.
    Scraps and scratches nothing major except trust in my biking abilities. The
    dust on the stanchions shows that I bottomed out 6 inches of travel on my
    Maverick Fork. Apparently 85 pounds of air in the fork is not enough for my
    weight (220lbs). Plus I have a bad habit of not getting my ass back far
    enough. Well first endo on the 5-spot after 2 years and 1,600 miles of
    dirt. Ok dust off and see what the rest of the trail has to offer hoping the
    worst is behind. Now the stuff I know I could clear I hesitate on and try
    to step off the bike....too steep, too loose. tangled up in the bike and in
    the dirt and bushes again. So I finish the ride walking some stuff thinking
    I will come back but next time with some plastic courage. Well after a few
    weeks of get my trust back on familiar trails.

  2. Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote:
    (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.


    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't ride illegal trails.
    Go ride a legal trail and post a ride report. Even better, do that then
    pledge to "poach no more."

    Tom

  3. On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:


    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    --
    monique

  4. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.


    hehehe

    Dean, spanked twice in the same evening; it's your lucky night!

    --
    Slacker

  5. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no legal trails in
    Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in the Laguna Wilderness,
    Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's it. In contrast there are perhaps
    hundreds of illegal trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal
    trails are quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some level of official
    "ignore" policy- otherwise they would have been shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the clandestine trails.
    That IS the local culture.

    Miles

  6. On 2004-06-11, miles todd penned:

    Quoted message said:
    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no legal trails in
    Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in the Laguna Wilderness,
    Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's it. In contrast there are perhaps
    hundreds of illegal trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal
    trails are quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some level of
    official "ignore" policy- otherwise they would have been shut down
    long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the clandestine trails.
    That IS the local culture.

    That may be the culture, but it stinks. I have a major problem with the
    idea that just because a law isn't enforced means that the status quo is
    okay. Any law on the books has the potential to be enforced, and lack
    of enforcement in the past is no defense. (Obviously this goes beyond
    the mountain biking world.) A hiker who isn't aware that mtbers say
    it's okay is still going to get [censored] when s/he sees a bike on a
    pedestrian-only trail, and will act accordingly.

    If there are no legal trails in Laguna Beach, why did he bother to
    specifically point out its illegality? Sounds like, if anything, he's
    trying to sound all badass by adding in that detail. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach environment. I don't know
    what it's like there. But I stand by my belief that poaching will, in
    the long run, just get everybody in trouble. Much better to fight for
    your rights.

    --
    monique

  7. tcmedara said:

    Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote:
    (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't ride illegal trails.
    Go ride a legal trail and post a ride report. Even better, do that then
    pledge to "poach no more."

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not oonly
    where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm glad Rosa
    Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives
    Before it is too late
    The battles we fought were long and hard
    Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

  8. miles todd said:


    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no legal trails in
    Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in the Laguna Wilderness,
    Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's it. In contrast there are perhaps
    hundreds of illegal trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal
    trails are quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some level of official
    "ignore" policy- otherwise they would have been shut down long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the clandestine trails.
    That IS the local culture.

    Miles


    This is true.

    A little nod, wink, a nap, and just about anything is possible
    http://www.poopworld.net/Funny/20040429/1334-monkey.swf

    --
    Slacker

  9. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    Oh please, if we keep cowing to equestrians and hikers the only legal trail
    will be the boardwalk at the beach.

    Greg
    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives
    Before it is too late
    The battles we fought were long and hard
    Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

  10. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach environment. I don't know
    what it's like there. But I stand by my belief that poaching will, in
    the long run, just get everybody in trouble. Much better to fight for
    your rights.


    Laguna is a very wealthy community and there are many high (and not so
    high) profile pro's that live there/around the area. The trails, legal
    or not, are not going anywhere. That's just the way it is.

    Look at it like a freeway. The max speed limit is 65 mph, but on a
    lighter traffic day, if you were doing less than 85 in the fast lane
    you'd get your ass kicked.

    Go with the flow, baby.
    --
    Slacker

  11. On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    Oh please, if we keep cowing to equestrians and hikers the only legal
    trail will be the boardwalk at the beach.

    And by riding on trails illegally, we'll somehow convince them that
    we're responsible enough to be allowed on more trails?

    C'mon, Greg. That doesn't make sense.

    --
    monique

  12. On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not
    oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm
    glad Rosa Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point across. What
    works in one case may not work in another. Rosa Parks was a right time,
    right place kind of scenario. I respect what she did, but do you
    honestly think that's the first time a black person ever tried to sit at
    the front of the bus? If she had been a big black man rather than a
    photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have engendered the same
    results? The political climate was changing. She was the first to say
    that she was only one of many people who made things happen, and she was
    active in many other, completely legal ways.

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably toward
    mountain bikes right now.

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more harm than good.
    It's bad PR. It reinforces the public opinion that mountain bikers are
    all disrespectful, juvenile punks (no matter the age). It's not a
    matter of being conformant; it's about doing what works.

    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being cheerful and
    friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try to undo the opinion they may
    have formed based on previous experiences with careless (as in,
    "Couldn't care less"😉 bikers.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when one equestrian
    is talking to another and the topic of mountain biking comes up, one of
    them will say, "Oh, I don't know -- I've met some really considerate
    mountain bikers. You can't judge the whole lot by a few bad apples."

    --
    monique

  13. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    Much better to fight for your rights.

    Tell me how, after attending land use meetings, writing the relevant parks
    depts, and writing my senators and congressperson, still losing large
    swaths of land left and right, how else am I to fight for my rights? By
    twiddling my thumbs?

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives
    Before it is too late
    The battles we fought were long and hard
    Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

  14. I do understand your point Monique and that you are unfamiliar with this
    area. We are not talking public parks land but strips of unusable steep
    terrain that in some places we do not know if city, county or private
    property. If it were posted as illegal or no trespassing, I for one would
    not use them. Trails in Laguna area are biking only trails. They are too
    steep, loose and nasty for hiking and never used by horses. Many of them
    way over my skill level. I look at some of them and wonder that they can be
    ridden at all. Park Rangers think we are crazy and the private land (Irvine
    Company) has lost interest as all of their prime land has been devolved.
    Mountain biking in Laguna goes way back and the trail system was made by
    mountain bikers for mountain biking. I have yet to meet anyone that has
    received a trespassing ticket. That is because it is part of our "local
    culture".

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:


    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not
    oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm
    glad Rosa Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point across. What
    works in one case may not work in another. Rosa Parks was a right time,
    right place kind of scenario. I respect what she did, but do you
    honestly think that's the first time a black person ever tried to sit at
    the front of the bus? If she had been a big black man rather than a
    photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have engendered the same
    results? The political climate was changing. She was the first to say
    that she was only one of many people who made things happen, and she was
    active in many other, completely legal ways.

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably toward
    mountain bikes right now.

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more harm than good.
    It's bad PR. It reinforces the public opinion that mountain bikers are
    all disrespectful, juvenile punks (no matter the age). It's not a
    matter of being conformant; it's about doing what works.

    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being cheerful and
    friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try to undo the opinion they may
    have formed based on previous experiences with careless (as in,
    "Couldn't care less"😉 bikers.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when one equestrian
    is talking to another and the topic of mountain biking comes up, one of
    them will say, "Oh, I don't know -- I've met some really considerate
    mountain bikers. You can't judge the whole lot by a few bad apples."

    --
    monique

  15. in article [email hidden], Monique Y. Mudama at
    [email hidden] wrote on 6/10/04 10:16 PM:

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, miles todd penned:

    Quoted message said:
    Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    > So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    > Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    What's funny about that, Monique, is that there are no legal trails in
    Laguna Beach. OK, maybe one or two each in the Laguna Wilderness,
    Aliso, and Moro parks, but that's it. In contrast there are perhaps
    hundreds of illegal trails in these same areas. Some of the illegal
    trails are quite famous and well used. In fact, so much so that I
    almost have to imagine that many of them receive some level of
    official "ignore" policy- otherwise they would have been shut down
    long ago.

    Riding in the Laguna Beach area is all about the clandestine trails.
    That IS the local culture.

    That may be the culture, but it stinks. I have a major problem with the
    idea that just because a law isn't enforced means that the status quo is
    okay. Any law on the books has the potential to be enforced, and lack
    of enforcement in the past is no defense. (Obviously this goes beyond
    the mountain biking world.) A hiker who isn't aware that mtbers say
    it's okay is still going to get [censored] when s/he sees a bike on a
    pedestrian-only trail, and will act accordingly.

    If there are no legal trails in Laguna Beach, why did he bother to
    specifically point out its illegality? Sounds like, if anything, he's
    trying to sound all badass by adding in that detail. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I'll admit that I don't know the Laguna Beach environment. I don't know
    what it's like there. But I stand by my belief that poaching will, in
    the long run, just get everybody in trouble. Much better to fight for
    your rights.

    --
    monique

    That is more than a spanking, that is a whipping! Where is Sorni, he needs
    the cat o'nine tails!

    Mtbchip

  16. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not
    oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm
    glad Rosa Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point across.

    Umm, you know what Mudama, I've been involved in land use issues since 1976
    and know when being a sheep no longer works. So don't even bother trying
    to preach to me.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives
    Before it is too late
    The battles we fought were long and hard
    Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

  17. Monique Y. Mudama said:

    On 2004-06-11, G.T. penned:

    Quoted message said:

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not
    oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm
    glad Rosa Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Hoo, boy.

    It's all about choosing the best way to get your point across. What
    works in one case may not work in another. Rosa Parks was a right time,
    right place kind of scenario. I respect what she did, but do you
    honestly think that's the first time a black person ever tried to sit at
    the front of the bus? If she had been a big black man rather than a
    photogenic black woman, do you think she'd have engendered the same
    results? The political climate was changing. She was the first to say
    that she was only one of many people who made things happen, and she was
    active in many other, completely legal ways.

    But you would have no civil disobedience.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think the political climate is changing favorably toward
    mountain bikes right now.

    It's definitely changing favorably but that doesn't mean that we don't
    continue to be lumped together with motor vehicles and locked out of
    wilderness area.

    Quoted message said:

    I honestly believe that poaching trails results in more harm than good.
    It's bad PR.

    I don't poach trails.

    Quoted message said:


    Me, I try the opposite tack. I make a point of being cheerful and
    friendly to hikers and equestrians. I try to undo the opinion they may
    have formed based on previous experiences with careless (as in,
    "Couldn't care less"😉 bikers.

    Who said I wasn't cheerful and friendly to hikers and equestrians? I get
    more flack from hikers on open trails than I do from hikers on the closed
    trails that I ride. Why? Because the closed trails are back country
    trails that were originally open to mtn bikes and they're so remote and
    little travelled that any hiker, equestrian, or mtn biker is happy to see
    someone else.

    Quoted message said:


    Maybe I'm naive, but I hope that maybe, some time, when one equestrian
    is talking to another and the topic of mountain biking comes up, one of
    them will say, "Oh, I don't know -- I've met some really considerate
    mountain bikers. You can't judge the whole lot by a few bad apples."

    You're really confusing two entirely different issues. My encounters on
    the trail are always positive except when I meet up with some moron hiker
    or equestrian who thinks they own the trail even when it's multi-use.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives
    Before it is too late
    The battles we fought were long and hard
    Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

  18. Please save your outrage and over reaction for when it is appropriate. One
    of my riding partners is an FBI agent and another a Superior Court Judge.
    We run across many off duty Sheriff officers on our illegal trail system all
    riding mountain bikes. Sometimes we ask questions and find out the
    circumstances before accusing someone. I am sorry if I offended your sense
    or righteousness. But I do not feel I did anything wrong. It is you
    applying your experiences and your local culture on me. I do not ride
    illegal trails in State/Federal protected areas or sensitive areas that
    would cause problems to the biking community.

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:


    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    Thanks for doing your part to make all mountain bikers look like
    [censored]. I'll be sure to express my appreciation when I find myself
    banned from my favorite, currently legal, spots.

    Stay on legal trails.

    --
    monique

  19. G.T. said:
    tcmedara said:

    Dean A. Stepper <[email hidden]> wrote:
    (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    So this evening I try this un-named illegal trail on Pelican Ridge,
    Newport Beach.

    (snip)

    Good ride report, [censored] poor judgement. You shouldn't ride illegal
    trails. Go ride a legal trail and post a ride report. Even better,
    do that then pledge to "poach no more."

    I'll ride where I and other trail users deem it proper to ride, not
    oonly where some ignorant bureaucracy deems it proper to ride. I'm
    glad Rosa Parks didn't have your conformant attitude.

    Greg

    Comparing closed mountain biking trails to segregation? That's a stretch.
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the moral imperatives involved don't
    quite equate.

    Tom

  20. On 2004-06-11, Dean A. Stepper penned:

    Quoted message said:

    Please save your outrage and over reaction for when it is
    appropriate. One of my riding partners is an FBI agent and another a
    Superior Court Judge. We run across many off duty Sheriff officers on
    our illegal trail system all riding mountain bikes. Sometimes we ask
    questions and find out the circumstances before accusing someone. I
    am sorry if I offended your sense or righteousness. But I do not feel
    I did anything wrong. It is you applying your experiences and your
    local culture on me. I do not ride illegal trails in State/Federal
    protected areas or sensitive areas that would cause problems to the
    biking community.

    Okay. Okay.

    Can I ask you something, then?

    Why did you make a point of saying that you were on an illegal trail in
    the very first sentence of your RR? Does illegal have a completely
    different meaning in Laguna?

    Seriously. I think we're having a language issue here. Do people in
    your area use the term "illegal" to mean a set of trails that are
    abandoned and unloved? I'm especially confused because in the above
    quote, you sound like you're making a distinction between "illegal
    trails that are fine to ride" and "illegal trails that are bad to ride."

    I've apparently made a mistake because I don't know the area, but that
    being said, your language was really misleading to anyone not familiar
    with your area's terminology.

    I mean, I wouldn't make a point of saying I was "illegally parked"
    unless I was expressing the fact that I wasn't supposed to be there and
    that I was risking a ticket ...

    --
    monique

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