RoseVersand

On 6 Jun, 21:11, Sam Salt <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I then found another light ( as they said if I wanted anything else they
would send it "post free"😉. Checked with B & M site that it would fit
either 50mm or 80mm fittings and it would by way of a type of
spacer.They wouldn't have that either and said I would once again have
to drill holes.

At that point I gave up and am waiting for my money back,but still £6+
out of pocket.

I just bought two B & M rear lights from Roseversand:
B&M 4DToplight® permanent
B&M 4DToplight® senso multi (light and motion sensors turns it on
automagically when needed)

I too was wondering about the difference between 50 mm and the 80 mm
model. It turned out that they both can be turned into a 50 or 80mm
model. With the "senso" model however, one had to drill extra holes to
get the 50 mm spacing, not a very elegant a solution, but it works.
Without knowing the exact B&M model that you bought, I am inclined to
think that Roseversand was right and you where wrong.

Roseversand has a very good reputation, but doesn't have so low prices
as
http://www.bike-palast.com/
http://www.bike-discount.de/
http://212.202.110.172/ (cheap, but slow)

Quoted message said:

Also I would have thought that if they are selling to other European
countries ( which they are as their website has English and French
translations ) then at least the principal bits of paperwork would be in
the appropriate language.No,every single thing was in German.They even
sent out a very comprehensive and lavishly illustrated catalogue ( I bet
that bumped the postage up it must have been an inch thick ),totally in
German.

Come on, german is is easy; Rahmen means frame, and Laufräder means
wheels, et cetera, et cetera... It's like that all the way.

--
Regards
Peter S.

Quoted message said:

On 6 Jun, 21:11, Sam Salt <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I then found another light ( as they said if I wanted anything else they
would send it "post free"😉. Checked with B & M site that it would fit
either 50mm or 80mm fittings and it would by way of a type of
spacer.They wouldn't have that either and said I would once again have
to drill holes.

At that point I gave up and am waiting for my money back,but still £6+
out of pocket.

I just bought two B & M rear lights from Roseversand:
B&M 4DToplight® permanent
B&M 4DToplight® senso multi (light and motion sensors turns it on
automagically when needed)

I too was wondering about the difference between 50 mm and the 80 mm
model. It turned out that they both can be turned into a 50 or 80mm
model. With the "senso" model however, one had to drill extra holes to
get the 50 mm spacing, not a very elegant a solution, but it works.
Without knowing the exact B&M model that you bought, I am inclined to
think that Roseversand was right and you where wrong.

Roseversand has a very good reputation, but doesn't have so low prices
as
http://www.bike-palast.com/
http://www.bike-discount.de/
http://212.202.110.172/ (cheap, but slow)

Quoted message said:

Also I would have thought that if they are selling to other European
countries ( which they are as their website has English and French
translations ) then at least the principal bits of paperwork would be in
the appropriate language.No,every single thing was in German.They even
sent out a very comprehensive and lavishly illustrated catalogue ( I bet
that bumped the postage up it must have been an inch thick ),totally in
German.

Come on, german is is easy; Rahmen means frame, and Laufräder means
wheels, et cetera, et cetera... It's like that all the way.

--
Regards
Peter S.

Mine was a 4D Toplight Senso Multi also and the point is that B & M
actually make a 50mm fitting of this light ( I had the part number from
them and an e-mail ).I am certainly not going to drill holes in a light
and cover the original holes with tape ( presumably ) when the retailer
is too idle to order what you want while all the while advertising it as
a two fitting model.Why doesn't it say in the on-line catalogue that
holes have to be drilled.

As for the prices,well in the UK it retails at 42GBP ( Kinetics )and
Roseverand price was about 25GBP both with P & P.

Sam Salt

On 6 Jun, 23:05, Sam Salt <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Mine was a 4D Toplight Senso Multi also and the point is that B & M
actually make a 50mm fitting of this light ( I had the part number from
them and an e-mail ).I am certainly not going to drill holes in a light
and cover the original holes with tape ( presumably ) when the retailer
is too idle to order what you want while all the while advertising it as
a two fitting model.

I am pretty sure there only exists one model of the "B&M Toplight
Senso Multi" (article no. "328ABLHR"😉
It is designed so it can be converted from the std. 80 mm spacing to
to a 50 spacing by drilling holes. I don't say it is an elegant
solution or a very user friendly solution, but it works. B&M probably
also realised that some of the end users weren't too happy with this
design, since the 4D'Toplight Permanent" model comes with loose bolts
and no pre-drilled holes. Instead one pops out the holes with a light
pressure from a screwdriver.

You are certainly right that B&M gives the impression that their rear
lights comes in two different models, but in fact they don't. It would
also be extremely stupid if they did, since it would mean that their
dealers would have to stock twice the number of models.

Quoted message said:

Why doesn't it say in the on-line catalogue that
holes have to be drilled.

I really don't know. Probably because B&M is a tiny, tiny company, I
mean, their english version of their site used to be a year behind
regarding product information.
I like B&M products but their manuals are are often lacking importent
information.

Quoted message said:

As for the prices,well in the UK it retails at 42GBP ( Kinetics )and
Roseverand price was about 25GBP both with P & P.

Well, that certainly is a hefty price difference.

--
Regards
Peter S.

Quoting Sam Salt <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Mine was a 4D Toplight Senso Multi also and the point is that B & M
actually make a 50mm fitting of this light ( I had the part number from
them and an e-mail ).I am certainly not going to drill holes in a light
and cover the original holes with tape ( presumably ) when the retailer
is too idle to order what you want while all the while advertising it as
a two fitting model.

And what do you suppose has been done to the "50mm fitting" version? If
you're lucky, it's had those two holes pre-drilled, saving you all of
thirty seconds.

Rose Versand are right here; you are wrong. They are right because they
actually know there is only one part involved.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corridor,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyaki,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose:yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!sparkle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

David Damerell said:

Quoting Sam Salt <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Mine was a 4D Toplight Senso Multi also and the point is that B & M
actually make a 50mm fitting of this light ( I had the part number from
them and an e-mail ).I am certainly not going to drill holes in a light
and cover the original holes with tape ( presumably ) when the retailer
is too idle to order what you want while all the while advertising it as
a two fitting model.

And what do you suppose has been done to the "50mm fitting" version? If
you're lucky, it's had those two holes pre-drilled, saving you all of
thirty seconds.

Rose Versand are right here; you are wrong. They are right because they
actually know there is only one part involved.

In that case I certainly find it strange that B & M don't know what they
make and they conjure up part numbers [censored] nilly.

It is not just the drilling of holes but making waterproof the original
holes.

Anyway I have a 50mm on order from another supplier,no problem.I will
let you know when this *unobtainable* light arrives.

Sam Salt

Am Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:47:08 -0700 schrieb [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 6 Jun, 21:11, Sam Salt <[email hidden]>
wrote:

....

Quoted message said:

Roseversand has a very good reputation,

Same experience here. After looking around for ages in this part of England
for a set of wheels and tyres with built in hub dynamo and quick release, I
ordered them from Roseversand in the end. The price was ok considering the
quality of the wheels and 15 Euros delivery cost for a set of wheels is
quite good value for money as well, IMHO.
One has to say though that Roseversand is aiming its marketing more at the
sporty cyclist, the mud-jumping mountain bikers and more importantly the
road biking. Just consider that their cheapest bikes start around 800
Euros! So there are some better and cheaper shops for day-to-day cycling,
which also might be better for giving advice to lighting systems.

Quoted message said:

but doesn't have so low prices
as
http://www.bike-palast.com/
http://www.bike-discount.de/
http://212.202.110.172/ (cheap, but slow)

Some more links which also have english websites...
http://www.actionsports.de/index.php?language=gb
http://www.bike24.com/
http://bikeparts-online.de/bpo_new/site_frameset_en.php?page=home
http://bike-components.de/catalog/?language=en&osCsid=dd7007b3ab695623f5e1b7c22dd927cc

And then there are some of the bigger ones, yet just in German:
http://www.boc24.de/epages/bicycles.storefront
http://www.bruegelmann.de/
http://preiswerte-fahrradteile.de/
http://www.fahrrad.de/

One of the best online shops for outdoor products also sells some bicycle
accessories:
<http://www.globetrotter.de/de/shop/rubrik.php?k_id=03&h_kat=Rund+ums+Fahrrad&GTID=65a8b1d236b144a543abcfd5dad43d3fa34>

And these one is nice if you are into vintage bicycles:
http://www.classic-cycle.de/
http://www.velo-classic.de/

see more at http://de-rec-fahrrad.de/links#haendler

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also I would have thought that if they are selling to other European
countries ( which they are as their website has English and French
translations ) then at least the principal bits of paperwork would be in
the appropriate language.No,every single thing was in German.

Can you show me a British online shop that would first offer access in
different languages and then has the paperwork translated into French,
Spanish, Dutch or German (to name a few)?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They even
sent out a very comprehensive and lavishly illustrated catalogue ( I bet
that bumped the postage up it must have been an inch thick ),totally in
German.

Come on, german is is easy; Rahmen means frame, and Laufräder means
wheels, et cetera, et cetera... It's like that all the way.

In case you want to know more about specific terms, have a look at the
bictionary:
http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Ratgeber/Bictionary/
They have even got a French version now.
And together with http://translate.google.com/ it should be possible to
guess the rest of a website.
:-)

Andreas

"Sam Salt" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone had any difficulty with this German retailer whom I
always assumed was pretty good after comments on here. There
prices are certainly competitive.

I've ordered from them a number of times, with only one small problem.

I'd ordered some bladed spokes on special offer that were described as being
supplied with 1.8mm nipples. I'd checked the German language page before
ordering to confirm that this was the case (Rose normally supply spokes
without nipples). When my package arrived the 1.8mm nipples were missing, so
I sent a mail asking if they could be sent. After a week without a response,
I sent another. After another week, the description of the spokes on the web
page was changed to read "without nipples".

I sent a third email, and received a polite reply in English explaining that
the description had been in error and offering to send me a box of 2.0mm
nipples. I explained that 1.8mm spokes require 1.8mm nipples, so 2.0mm
nipples would be useless. Rose replied that they were sorry, but they had no
1.8mm nipples to offer me, and once again offered 2.0mm nipples. I thanked
them, and declined their offer.

All in all, an annoyance, but not enough to prevent me ordering from them in
the future.

Quoted message said:

They even sent out a very comprehensive and lavishly illustrated catalogue
( I bet that bumped the postage up it must have been an inch
thick ),totally in
German.

See it as a free illustrated German cycling phrasebook. It's thanks to Rose
(and time served on eBay.de) that I know my *Kurbeln* from my
*Kettenstrebenschutz*.

James Thomson

[email hidden] wrote:

Sorry - can't help with the lights.

Quoted message said:

Roseversand has a very good reputation, but doesn't have so low prices
as
http://www.bike-palast.com/
http://www.bike-discount.de/
http://212.202.110.172/ (cheap, but slow)

There's also http://www.bike24.net/ which is conveniently in English by
clicking the obvious flag or going directly to http://www.bike24.com/
Prices seemed OK, and good service, and free shipping within Germany.

Not ordered from RoseVersand, mainly because they've never had all the
items I wanted for a given order, but Bike24 have. The website is not
the easiest either imho.

Quoted message said:

Come on, german is is easy; Rahmen means frame, and Laufräder means
wheels, et cetera, et cetera... It's like that all the way.

Babelfish is your friend. Checkout might be the only tricky part, since
CC are not so widespread, and there'll be options such as COD and bank
transfer.

--
AndyM.
The expat cyclist in Germany.

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone had any difficulty with this German retailer whom I always
assumed was pretty good after comments on here.There prices are
certainly competitive.

I ordered a rear rack light from them and stipulated a 50mm rack fitting
( their web site indicated both sizes were available ).They sent me
an 80mm fitting.

I returned the light at a cost of £6+ and e-mailed to tell them they had
sent the wrong one.

You shouldn't have returned it before you'd sorted it out with them.

Quoted message said:

They responded by saying that there was only one size
and the Busch & Muller packaging that indicated otherwise was wrong, and
if I wanted a 50mm fitting I would have to drill the appropriate 50mm
holes ( what exactly I was supposed to do with the holes already there I
don't know ).

Fill them with epoxy, hot glue, silicone sealant ...

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They responded by saying that there was only one size
and the Busch & Muller packaging that indicated otherwise was wrong, and
if I wanted a 50mm fitting I would have to drill the appropriate 50mm
holes ( what exactly I was supposed to do with the holes already there I
don't know ).

Fill them with epoxy, hot glue, silicone sealant ...

Quite.

Most cyclists are resourceful and able to make things work, without
having to have everything handed to them on a plate.

Al C-F said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They responded by saying that there was only one size
and the Busch & Muller packaging that indicated otherwise was wrong, and
if I wanted a 50mm fitting I would have to drill the appropriate 50mm
holes ( what exactly I was supposed to do with the holes already there I
don't know ).

Fill them with epoxy, hot glue, silicone sealant ...

Quite.

Most cyclists are resourceful and able to make things work, without
having to have everything handed to them on a plate.

Are they? I'm clearly not part of your l33t crew.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>