David Wright wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Jon Quixote <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>>>I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to rational
>>>>people: ...
>>>
>>>You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
>>>they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
>>>all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
>>
>>No, the study says that they continued to avail themselves of the drugs when
>>given the option.
>>
>>"After 7 days they had the option of stopping the medication or continuing
>>for 3 more weeks. All the
>>patients reported that the drug helped and all chose to continue taking it."
>
>
> Can you even get addicted to a substance in 7 days? I recall reading
> that even heroin takes a couple of weeks.
"Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"CBI" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<hbnEb.4656$Fg.4562@lakeread01>...
>> > "Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > > "Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote
>> > > > I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to
>rational
>> > > > people: ...
>> > >
>> > > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
>> > > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
>> > > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
>> >
>> >
>> > Is that your definition of "addictive"? Does that mean that, oh, women
>on
>> > birth control pills are addicted to them because they refuse to stop
>taking
>> > them "when given the opportunity"? That those on antihistimines are
>> > addicted? (These are two examples that came to mind--there are many
>more, I
>> > am sure).
>>
>> By his definition you are addicted to any medication - in deed any
>> substance - that you choose to ingest.
>>
>> --
>> CBI, MD
>
>
>Any suggestions for my detoxing off losartan potassium?
>
>;o) Rich
>
After seven days, my wife didn't want to stop taking warfarin. I had
better book her into rehab.
"nknisley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Marciosos6 Probertiosos6 wrote:
>
> > "JG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:kiRDb.1624$%[email protected]...
> >
> >>"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>message news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>>(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)
> >>
> >>>Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
> >>>Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET
> >>
> > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1216/hl_acs/ritalin_helps_beat_cancer_fatigue
> >
> >>...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they think
> >>of next?!? <g> When are they gonna test meth, or crack?
> >
> >
> > They are addictive at just about any doseage, so MPH is far preferable,
> > since it is not addictive at the doseages that werre administered.
> >
>
> WRT your statement that methamphetamine is addictive at just about any
> dosage: Are you talking about street meth or pharmaceutical
> methamphetamine (Desoxyn)?
>
> Are there studies that you know of showing Desoxyn is addictive when
> taken as prescribed (for ADHD or narcolepsy) and not abused by taking
> more than the prescribed amount or by injecting or snorting it?
"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Marciosos7 Probertiosos7" <[email protected]> wrote
> > Research studies show that the oral use of the medication does not have
> the
> > same physiology response as when it is snorted, or injected. The
> > physiological response in those circumstances is the same for cocaine
and
> > heroin.
> > Roger refuses to recognize this, and ...
>
> I am happy to recognize the research. Yes, the physiological response
> when ritalin or cocaine is snorted or injected is much faster. It can
reach
> the brain within 5 minutes or so that way. Pills act much more slowly.
> No question about it.
You are 1/3 way there....
Now youhave to recognize that the rapid uptake of injected or snorted
ritalin, met, etc. is what makes it addictive, and that oral use at the
prescribed doses does not make it addictive.
"jake" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:07:57 GMT, "Marciosos7 Probertiosos7"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:hbnEb.4656$Fg.4562@lakeread01...
> >>
> >> "Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > "Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote
> >> > > I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to
> >rational
> >> > > people: ...
> >> >
> >> > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
> >> > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
> >> > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
> >>
> >>
> >> Is that your definition of "addictive"? Does that mean that, oh, women
on
> >> birth control pills are addicted to them because they refuse to stop
> >taking
> >> them "when given the opportunity"? That those on antihistimines are
> >> addicted? (These are two examples that came to mind--there are many
more,
> >I
> >> am sure).
> >
> >How about that diabetic who is addicted to insulin, by Roger's standard?
>
> --
> "Let me clear this up right now. ADHD is not like diabetes and [the
stimulant used for it] is not
> like insulin. Diabetes is a real medical condition that can be
objectively diagnosed. ADHD is an
> invented label with no objective, valid means of identification. Insulin
is a natural hormone
> produced by the body and it is essential for life. [This stimulant] is a
chemically derived
> amphetamine-like drug that is not necessary for life. Diabetes is an
insulin deficiency. Attention
> and behavioral problems are not a [stimulant] deficiency."
>
>
> Dr. Mary Ann Block
Jakey...I was referring to Roger's standards, which have nothing to do with
the real world.
"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
> > > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
> > > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
> > Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...
>
> No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.
Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?
"Marciosos7 Probertiosos7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "nknisley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Marciosos6 Probertiosos6 wrote:
> >
> > > "JG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:kiRDb.1624$%[email protected]...
> > >
> > >>"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > >>message news:[email protected]...
> > >>
> > >>>(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)
> > >>
> > >>>Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
> > >>>Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET
> > >>
> > >
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1216/hl_acs/ritalin_helps_beat_cancer_fatigue
> > >
> > >>...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they think
> > >>of next?!? <g> When are they gonna test meth, or crack?
> > >
> > >
> > > They are addictive at just about any doseage, so MPH is far
preferable,
> > > since it is not addictive at the doseages that werre administered.
> > >
> >
> > WRT your statement that methamphetamine is addictive at just about any
> > dosage: Are you talking about street meth or pharmaceutical
> > methamphetamine (Desoxyn)?
> >
> > Are there studies that you know of showing Desoxyn is addictive when
> > taken as prescribed (for ADHD or narcolepsy) and not abused by taking
> > more than the prescribed amount or by injecting or snorting it?
>
> Street useage.
"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2jFEb.5292$Fg.5235@lakeread01...
>
> "Marciosos7 Probertiosos7" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "nknisley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Marciosos6 Probertiosos6 wrote:
> > >
> > > > "JG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:kiRDb.1624$%[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > >>"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > > >>message news:[email protected]...
> > > >>
> > > >>>(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)
> > > >>
> > > >>>Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
> > > >>>Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET
> > > >>
> > > >
> >
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1216/hl_acs/ritalin_helps_beat_cancer_fatigue
> > > >
> > > >>...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they
think
> > > >>of next?!? <g> When are they gonna test meth, or crack?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are addictive at just about any doseage, so MPH is far
> preferable,
> > > > since it is not addictive at the doseages that werre administered.
> > > >
> > >
> > > WRT your statement that methamphetamine is addictive at just about any
> > > dosage: Are you talking about street meth or pharmaceutical
> > > methamphetamine (Desoxyn)?
> > >
> > > Are there studies that you know of showing Desoxyn is addictive when
> > > taken as prescribed (for ADHD or narcolepsy) and not abused by taking
> > > more than the prescribed amount or by injecting or snorting it?
> >
> > Street useage.
>
> What about the street usage of caffeine?
Higly addictive. One of the women who works for our office tenant is
pregnant.She is drinking at least 8 cups of coffee a day, and is now late
for delivery. If the kid cannot fall asleep....
"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<shFEb.5287$Fg.4086@lakeread01>...
> "Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
> > > > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
> > > > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
> > > Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...
> >
> > No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.
>
>
> Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
> brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
> impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
> addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?
You'll have to excuse Roger. You see - every time he reads and
responds to a Usenet post it is an opportunity to stop using logical
falacies. Alas, he decides not to. He must be addicted to them.
In article <shFEb.5287$Fg.4086@lakeread01>,
SumBuny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
>> > > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
>> > > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
>> > > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
>> > Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...
>>
>> No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.
>
>
>Then why cut out the rest of my post...these drugs also have effects on the
>brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
>impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
>addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the opportunity"?
In Schlafly-land, things mean whatever he defines them to mean.
Reality is irrelevant.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
"Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" <[email protected]> wrote
> > I am happy to recognize the research. Yes, the physiological response
> > when ritalin or cocaine is snorted or injected is much faster. It can
> Now youhave to recognize that the rapid uptake of injected or snorted
> ritalin, met, etc. is what makes it addictive, and that oral use at the
> prescribed doses does not make it addictive.
Just show me the published scientific paper.
Rush Limbaugh claims that he got addicted to prescribed pills. Are
you saying that is impossible?
If it has been shown to be impossible, then there must be a recognized
paper saying so.
"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
> > > > they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
> > > > all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.
> > > Is that your definition of "addictive"? ...
> > No, but it is a good clue when we are discussing mind-altering drugs.
> ..these drugs also have effects on the
> brain....birth control pills, antihistimines, asthma meds, insulin...all
> impact the brain as well...are you suggesting that those who use these are
> addicted because they fail to get off of them when "given the
opportunity"?
Some people probably would. But those drugs only have a minor
effect on the brain, and people take them for other (non-brain) effects.
Addiction is much more of a hazard when people take drugs solely
for their effect on the brain.
"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
> The "either/or" attitude is what truly sucks...you either take no
> medications, or you are addicted to drugs....what happened to the most
> typical patient, the one in the middle area?
Not all meds are addicting. Lots of people take vitamins every day,
but I doubt that anyone is addicted to vitamins.
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:59:51 GMT, "Marciosos6 Probertiosos6"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>(Please repost for jan to read. She MUST know this!)
>
>Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue
>Mon Dec 15, 7:00 PM ET
>
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1216/hl_acs/ritalin_helps_beat_cancer_fatigue
>
>The drug methylphenidate -- more commonly known as Ritalin (news - web
>sites), Concerta, Metadate, or Methylin -- can help cancer patients fight
>off fatigue, according to researchers from M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in
>Houston. The best effect comes from taking small doses throughout the day,
>they report in the Journal of Clinical Oncology (Vol. 21, No. 23:
>4439-4443).
>
>Most patients with advanced cancer will experience fatigue, a symptom that
>can destroy quality of life. Although the fatigue sometimes stems from
>anemia and improves with increases in blood counts, most often there is no
>specific cause and no ready treatment.
>
>Methylphenidate is typically prescribed for ADHD, or attention
>deficit/hyperactivity disorder, but it has been used, with some success, to
>treat cancer fatigue. In this study, the researchers wanted to better
>document this success by measuring symptom improvement through the use of
>specially designed questionnaires.
>
>Patients Felt Better Physically and Emotionally
>
>The researchers enrolled 30 patients with advanced cancer and fatigue; the
>participants were given a one-week supply of 5-mg methylphenidate tablets
>and told to take them as needed for fatigue. After 7 days they had the
>option of stopping the medication or continuing for 3 more weeks. All the
>patients reported that the drug helped and all chose to continue taking it.
>
>
>The researchers also found other evidence that the drug was helping. At the
>beginning of the study, the patients rated their fatigue on a 0-10 scale,
>with 10 being the worst. The average was 7.2. After 28 days of
>methylphenidate, their fatigue level had dropped to 4.4.
>
>
>The patients also reported less depression and greater physical and
>emotional well-being. When the researchers measured patient fatigue during
>the day, they noted a drop from morning to evening as the effects of that
>day's treatment took hold.
>
>Side Effects Minor
>
>Side effects weren't a big problem. Two patients reported restlessness. Two
>others reported a loss of appetite, although most actually found their
>appetites improved.
>
>
>The authors acknowledge that bigger studies are needed to understand why
>methylphenidate works, how long it remains effective, and how long it can
>safely be taken. But they were encouraged by the clear-cut benefit of the
>drug in improving both the fatigue and the quality of life of these
>patients.
>
Repost.
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference
"Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:03:24 GMT, "Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
>> The "either/or" attitude is what truly sucks...you either take no
>> medications, or you are addicted to drugs....what happened to the most
>> typical patient, the one in the middle area?
>
>Not all meds are addicting. Lots of people take vitamins every day,
>but I doubt that anyone is addicted to vitamins.
"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > I am happy to recognize the research. Yes, the physiological response
> > > when ritalin or cocaine is snorted or injected is much faster. It can
> > Now youhave to recognize that the rapid uptake of injected or snorted
> > ritalin, met, etc. is what makes it addictive, and that oral use at the
> > prescribed doses does not make it addictive.
>
> Just show me the published scientific paper.
>
> Rush Limbaugh claims that he got addicted to prescribed pills. Are
> you saying that is impossible?
Well. Rush Limboob, the hypocrite, has his own thery. Did he mention that he
was abusing them prior to becoming addicted? I define abusing as not taking
them as prescribed.
> If it has been shown to be impossible, then there must be a recognized
> paper saying so.
Sorry, Roger, but you have been asked a gadzillion times to prove that
methylphendiate is addictive when taken as prescribed. You may not switch
the burden of proof at this time.
Either provide documentation of a claim you made a gadzillion times, or
admit that you are flatuating.
"Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
> > The "either/or" attitude is what truly sucks...you either take no
> > medications, or you are addicted to drugs....what happened to the most
> > typical patient, the one in the middle area?
>
> Not all meds are addicting. Lots of people take vitamins every day,
> but I doubt that anyone is addicted to vitamins.
I know somewone who had the choice to stop taking them, but chose not to do
so. Thus, by your criteria, they are addcited.
"Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > Now you have to recognize that the rapid uptake of injected or snorted
> > > ritalin, met, etc. is what makes it addictive, and that oral use at
the
> > > prescribed doses does not make it addictive.
> > Just show me the published scientific paper.
> ... You may not switch the burden of proof at this time.
I am not. You made the claim above. I don't believe it. I cannot find
it in any published scientific paper.
> Either provide documentation of a claim you made a gadzillion times, or
> admit that you are flatuating.
Joe Parsons wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:03:24 GMT, "Roger Schlafly" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"SumBuny" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>>The "either/or" attitude is what truly sucks...you either take no
>>>medications, or you are addicted to drugs....what happened to the most
>>>typical patient, the one in the middle area?
>>
>>Not all meds are addicting. Lots of people take vitamins every day,
>>but I doubt that anyone is addicted to vitamins.
>
>
> And yet they continue to take them.
>
> Junkies--every last one of them!
>
Oh, my gosh, I'm a lettuce junkie! I could "choose" to stop eating
lettuce any time I want to, but I instead, I "choose" to continue eating
it. I'm obviously addicted. And, I never snorted or crushed and snorted
lettuce either!
I guess lettuce rehab is something I should look into.
