riding posture question

<< After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have you had a bike fit with a good bike fit person? With special attention to your problem?

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

<< After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper

ass?)

Quoted message said:

muscles invariably start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have you had a bike fit with a good bike fit person? With special

attention to

Quoted message said:

your problem?

No, but I've spent a lot of time myself trying different positions - high stem, low stem, short
stem, long stem. Short of riding a stright upright hybrid or a recumbent, nothing seems to make much
of a difference. I'm pretty much in the Rivendell recommended position (although I don't ride a
Rivendell, bummer).

rivbike.combikes riv5.htmlOpen ↗

I think I'm going to try my damndest to keep my back flat for the next couple of rides - just wanted
to see if anyone had similar successes/failures with that.

Quoted message said:

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

I ride on average 200-300 miles per week. I've had this problem. I bought a new saddle (not because
of my back hurting) and in doing so, positioned it differently at my bike fitters recommendation.
This helped quite a bit. He had several suggestions on posture. Get out of the saddle for a short
distance before my back began to hurt much, and keep my elbows a little more tucked in to help keep
my back straight. In my case, more riding made my trunk stronger, helping my back to stay
straighter.

If you haven't already, consider getting refitted on your bike. As I got stronger and my body
changed, slight changes in the fit were beneficial to
me.

Cheers

Paul J Pharr

Flexability issue- sounds like it anyway! Careful if your hamstrings are to tight the back is forced
to flex where it does not want to. Leading to swolen disks..bad bad bad. Do not ride through pain
(unless racing), it is a warning. Extra stretching may be needed, if you cant hold a flexed position
off the bike do not go near it till you can.

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw

this

Quoted message said:

suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it doesn't
seem natural.

(disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -

all

Quoted message said:

these things help to some degree)

Thanks,

Kyle

KBH said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
this suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it
doesn't seem natural.

(disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly - all these things help to some degree)

Thanks,

Kyle

You'll notice that women seem to ride with a flatter back and men with a more rounded back. I don't
know why but I suppose we all ride the way we are built. I do a lot of back and upper body
strenghtening in the gym and have never had any problems except for my neck. That's an old whiplash
thing that seems to be getting better now I started seeing a chiropractor and also raised my
handlebars a little..

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Openworld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably
start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Quoted message said:

Flexability issue- sounds like it anyway! Careful if your hamstrings are to tight the back is
forced to flex where it does not want to. Leading to swolen disks..bad bad bad. Do not ride
through pain (unless racing), it is a warning. Extra stretching may be needed, if you cant hold a
flexed position off the bike do not go near it till you can.

Perhaps this sympom can come from a variety of sources, but mine seems to come from the "tight
hamstrings" mentioned above. Regular stretching seems to help, about the only thing that does.

I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a RockShox road suspension
seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore my saddle height is a bit nebulous,
although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated. I've always gone with a SH of about
79, with a PBH of about 91.

I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went with KOPS that would help
straighten out my back.

I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

Thanks again,

Kyle

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kbh-<< No, but I've spent a lot of time myself trying different

positions -

Quoted message said:

high stem, low stem, short stem, long stem. Short of riding a stright upright hybrid or a
recumbent,

Have you had your seat height and knee position checked? I think that is

the

Quoted message said:

place to start. If that is not proper, the rest of the fit is somewhat arbitrary.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1051641603.443984@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a

RockShox

Quoted message said:

road suspension seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore

my

Quoted message said:

saddle height is a bit nebulous, although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated.
I've always gone with a SH of about 79, with a PBH of about 91.

I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went

with

Quoted message said:

KOPS that would help straighten out my back.

I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

Thanks again,

Kyle

That $50 for a proper fitting is probably the best investment you can make in your riding career.
Beats all the Ti widgets you can hang on your bike hands down!

Go get fit.

Mike

As others have mentioned bike fit and stretching may have their place in your problem. I have this
issue on long rides going up steep hills. What I found to work well is an exercise for the lower
back. Backward Leg lifts (the half locust pose in yoga, only I add reps). You lay down on your
stomach, arms at the side of your body, hands under your thighs with your palms on the floor. Lift
one leg up as high as comfortable and hold it (leg is extended), do a few reps, then the other leg.
This exercise has helped to eliminate my lower back pain on long steep climbs. For some reason
though I couldn't get there just by doing the climbs. Now, even though I don't do the exercise that
much anymore, all the steep climbing rides I do keeps me quite capable at this exercise.

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so

I

Quoted message said:

want to keep this focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw

this

Quoted message said:

suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it doesn't
seem natural.

(disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -

all

Quoted message said:

these things help to some degree)

Thanks,

Kyle

Quoted message said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

When you stand up, you restore the normal lumbar curvature and the pain goes away. In the riding
position, I'd guess that your lower back is arched and causing your pain.

If I were you, I'd check for a saddle that's too high and/or far back (especially the latter);
and/or handlebars too far away. And I'd check for overly tight hamstrings and glutes (try some
gentle stretching). Ab strengthening (e.g., crunches, situps, etc) may help.

"one of the six billion" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As others have mentioned bike fit and stretching may have their place in your problem. I have this
issue on long rides going up steep hills.

What

Quoted message said:

I found to work well is an exercise for the lower back. Backward Leg

lifts

Quoted message said:

(the half locust pose in yoga, only I add reps). You lay down on your stomach, arms at the side of
your body, hands under your thighs with your palms on the floor. Lift one leg up as high as
comfortable and hold it (leg is extended), do a few reps, then the other leg. This exercise has
helped to eliminate my lower back pain on long steep climbs.

I tried your suggestion but I have a hell of a time keeping my hands under my thighs on long
steep hills.

Descents are no problem though.

Quoted message said:

For some reason though I couldn't get there just by doing the climbs. Now, even though I don't do
the exercise that much anymore, all the steep climbing rides I do keeps me quite capable at this
exercise.

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so

I

Quoted message said:

want to keep this focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably
start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a

little

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as severe), or by forcing your belly button towards
the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw

this

Quoted message said:

suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

may help but it doesn't seem natural.

(disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out of the saddle to climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -

all

Quoted message said:

these things help to some degree)

Thanks,

Kyle

KBH said:

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back?

I don't even think about my back when riding, but this idea of forcing your belly-button down
towards the top tube (mine is low enough as it is!) sounds very, very painful because of other
things that would be forced downward as well, but which would run into the saddle. You want to keep
your hips upright enough so that you are sitting on the "sit bones" on the sides of the back-bottom
of your hips, and not sitting directly on your balls.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die
deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in
judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein

KBH said:

I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went with KOPS that would help
straighten out my back.

Maybe. "An inch or two" behind KOPS is pretty far back.

Quoted message said:

I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

It would be a good investment.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | We have a record of conquest, colonization and expansion _`\(,_ | unequalled by any people
in the Nineteenth Century. We are not (_)/ (_) | to be curbed now. --Henry Cabot Lodge, 1895

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:<pSzra.4559$27.64@fed1read07>...

Quoted message said:

"KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1051641603.443984@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a

RockShox

Quoted message said:

road suspension seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore

my

Quoted message said:

saddle height is a bit nebulous, although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated.
I've always gone with a SH of about 79, with a PBH of about 91.

I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went

with

Quoted message said:

KOPS that would help straighten out my back.

I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

Thanks again,

Kyle

That $50 for a proper fitting is probably the best investment you can make in your riding career.
Beats all the Ti widgets you can hang on your bike hands down!

Go get fit.

Mike

Complete rubbish Mike. Anyone who can ride a bike can fit one to himself. Read the book or look at
the pictures. One more thing to separate cyclists from their money.

KBH said:

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep
this focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

I see there are already a bunch of responses about bike fit potentially being the problem. Let me
add my $.02.

I too have been experiencing lower back pain lately after an hour and a half or two hours. I haven't
changed my position on the bike in over ten years. What's different; I've gotten lazy over this past
winter about doing crunches.

I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles or
so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about 40,
so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.

If I follow through with my new found commitment perhaps I should post if the pain goes away. :-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

Quoted message said:

I too have been experiencing lower back pain lately after an hour and a half or two hours. I
haven't changed my position on the bike in over ten years. What's different; I've gotten lazy over
this past winter about doing crunches.

I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles
or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about
40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.

If I follow through with my new found commitment perhaps I should post if the pain goes away. :-)

I think my regimen will consist of crunches, hamstring stretches, as well as back strengthening
excercises. I've been told by a back doctor that my spine takes a sharper than normal turn towards
my pelvis (the turn that allows you to put your hand under you lower back while lying down flat).
Therefore, my belief is that my lower back muscles are shorter and tighter than most people's, hence
the discomfort when these muscles are stretched for an hour or two, which led to my hypothesis that
maintining a flat back while riding would help the situation.

One way the Dr. suggested to offset this curvature is to strengthen my abs. I also imagine that
stretching these musles in conjunction with my hams shoudl help. Lying on my stomach over a swedish
ball stretched the hell oout of them.

Thanks,

Kyle

John Everett said:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles
or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about
40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.

What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| John Everett wrote:
| > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote:
| >
| > I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the
| > rest of my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the
| > last 10 miles or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started
| > protesting after about 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have
| > some work to do.
| >
|
| What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?
|
| --
| Perre
|
| You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
|
Basically, a limited range sit-up...concentrating more on intense contraction of abs, as opposed to
physically sitting up...many variations...
google.comsearchOpen ↗ =Google+Search

ED3

abdominal workouts

basically lie on your back, knees up (or calves resting on a bench) and contract your abs just until
your shoulder blades are off the ground - hold briefly and repeat again and again and again....

I also do leg lifts, where I lie flat and lift my legs from 0 to 90 degrees and hold. Good for the
lower abs.

Kyle

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Everett said:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the
rest of my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the
last 10 miles or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started
protesting after about 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have
some work to do.

What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.