Red Rock Canyon...

[jsirabella]

Hello All,

Just thought I drop a post as I have been lucky enough to go to Vegas, the weather has been amazing and I finally brought my bike. I had a choice between riding again this year to Boston or trying Vegas as I got this Ritchey Breakaway bike used from a friend.

All I can say if you have the opportunity go to Red Rock, do the Blue Diamond Loop, The Red Rock Route and Mt. Charleston. All were amazing and for a guy who only rode in my little area of NYC and once in a while to Boston or Baltimore this was amazing. Vegas as I have been riding I find to be like a bowl basically with Vegas at the bottom of the bowl. I rode from my hotel straight out to the Canyons and it is just a gradual incline all the way to the top of the Canyons. But on the way back you just fly through the switch backs and the roads. Constant down grade for what must be like 20-30 miles, hitting 25 miles per hour without even trying hard.

I understand now why people love to ride the West Coast as it is so different than East Coast. The roads are wide and long with a gradual grade where you can go all out for 60 minutes and hold a nice pace. Also I can see the importance of drafting as the winds out here can be a challenge. Than you can go up in the mountain and do switchbacks and climb and climb which was about 5,000 feet here in Red Rock.

There were some surprises as I never heard of cattle guards. I mean wtf are cattle guards? Just make sure you are not doing 25 miles or more before you hit one. Talk about an experience....also the roads have more vibration out here as it is not the tar I see here in NYC.

The people are real nice here and they say hi. The LBS ProCyclery was real nice to me and helped me out. My wife has been nice to me and gave me like 5 or more in the morning to ride so I am on day 4 and going to pass 300 miles for me which is alot for me. My CTL slop this week will be a +8 by tomorrow and my legs can feel it.

I can see why RDO loved riding here. Strange about that as I asked a few riders around here about him and most seem to know of him but not him. I kept riding the Blue Diamond loop almost everyday as someone told me he heard he rides here in the mornings but no luck.

Thanks Dave for the advice and was thinking about you today as I saw alot of rock climbers getting their gear out of the car.

-Js

 

[frenchyge]

Nice. If I ever make it out there I'd like to ride up to a view of Boulder Dam and the lake.

Makes a flatlander like me jealous. Of course, I used to live in SoCal, but didn't pick up biking until I'd moved to Kansas.

 

[Piotr]

There were some surprises as I never heard of cattle guards. I mean wtf are cattle guards? Just make sure you are not doing 25 miles or more before you hit one. Talk about an experience....

-Js

25 MPH?! How about jumping cattle guards at 45 MPH mid-pack in a race. Oh, you east coast rookies!

 

[daveryanwyoming]

....Thanks Dave for the advice...

Glad you hit the weather right and are enjoying yourself. Never occurred to me to mention cattle guards, guess I never saw those till I got West of the Mississippi myself. The best are those fake ones just painted on the road.

-Dave
P.S.

...I mean wtf are cattle guards? Just make sure you are not doing 25 miles or more before you hit one...

Actually faster is better when it comes to cattle guards, like Piotr says run at 'em fast, watch out for any gaps in the rails that might catch your tires and lift a bit as you cross. You don't need a full out jump, just unweight the bike a bit with a little vertical unweighting hop and you'll float right over a cattle guard. We've got one right at the base of a steep straight descent on a local training route, it's normal to hit 40-45 mph at the base of the hill and the cattle guard is about 100 feet further. Spooky in the rain or the first couple of times but you get used to it. That'll teach you to stay off your brakes

 

[Powerful Pete]

Thanks for the description. Always have wanted to ride the Western US...

 

[jsirabella]

Still what the heck is a cattle guard? Do you really need to be guarded from cattle all that often? ... lol

Coming back from Red Rock it was hard not to do 25 mph...I was tapping the brakes as I was approaching it but man you get your wheels stuck in between that grid and you are toast!

The area though is so different as you can just open up, no crowds like CP or Nyack...just you and the open road...it was beautiful!

25 MPH?! How about jumping cattle guards at 45 MPH mid-pack in a race. Oh, you east coast rookies!

 

[jsirabella]

On those switchbacks down Red Rock you can easily hit the numbers you guys talk about all the time and in a pack coming back on Route 159 you should be able to fly!

On the East Coast it would be much more difficult but can be done ofcourse just not as easy as do not have those nice long open roads where you can really just get into a zone. Even on 9W you have to be looking for cars and other cyclists.

I used to think CP and NYACK had fast turns but I can tell now it is all a joke compared to here. The switchbacks coming down Red Rock were fast and sharp but very manageable. Very different for me...also Mt. Charleston is no joke.

-js

Glad you hit the weather right and are enjoying yourself. Never occurred to me to mention cattle guards, guess I never saw those till I got West of the Mississippi myself. The best are those fake ones just painted on the road.

-Dave
P.S. Actually faster is better when it comes to cattle guards, like Piotr says run at 'em fast, watch out for any gaps in the rails that might catch your tires and lift a bit as you cross. You don't need a full out jump, just unweight the bike a bit with a little vertical unweighting hop and you'll float right over a cattle guard. We've got one right at the base of a steep straight descent on a local training route, it's normal to hit 40-45 mph at the base of the hill and the cattle guard is about 100 feet further. Spooky in the rain or the first couple of times but you get used to it. That'll teach you to stay off your brakes

 

[frenchyge]

Still what the heck is a cattle guard? Do you really need to be guarded from cattle all that often? ... lol!

Heh, only if they're wearing gang colors.
When the road plows through someone's grazing land, the govt won't let them build their fence across the road. The cattle guards keep the cows from walking around the end of the fence at the break where the road goes through the pasture (ok... desert).

Coming back from Red Rock it was hard not to do 25 mph...I was tapping the brakes as I was approaching it but man you get your wheels stuck in between that grid and you are toast!

I've only seen the ones which are essentially a set of 5-6 poles laying *across* the road. Are you saying there are slots running *along* the road that would eat a wheel?

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...I've only seen the ones which are essentially a set of 5-6 poles laying *across* the road. Are you saying there are slots running *along* the road that would eat a wheel?

Unfortunately we've got some with wheel biter slots. It usually means the railroad tracks, I beams or pipe they used to build the guard weren't long enough so they pieced together shorter sections creating some expansion gaps set up perfectly to grab a 23c tire. I've gotten used to scanning ahead for those gaps when approaching a cattle guard which is why I hate coming up on one unexpectedly when riding deep in the field during a race. I sure like to see what's in front of my wheels but it's another good reason to practice some impromptu bunny hops on the road bike.

They were replacing a guard on a local road last summer and I came round the corner to see two of the pipes simply missing creating a couple of big deep steel potholes. Not much for it but a quick hop, still slammed the rear wheel kinda hard on the second missing rail.

We've definitely got our share of road hazards out West. Moose and Bison come to mind when training here and last summer we came off a fast descent in a road race in Idaho to find ourselves face to face with a road filling cattle drive. Yep, cowboys, horses, herding dogs and a couple of hundred steer all filling the road from fence to fence. The cattle were all spooked from the previous group that had pushed through behind their lead car and it was like looking down a stampede. Not much to do but hop the fences and cyclocross a quarter of a mile through freshly plowed fields. That was interesting in road cleats. Still I'll take it over taxi cabs, endless stoplights and Manhatten traffic

-Dave

 

[Steve_B]

I understand now why people love to ride the West Coast as it is so different than East Coast. The roads are wide and long with a gradual grade where you can go all out for 60 minutes and hold a nice pace. Also I can see the importance of drafting as the winds out here can be a challenge. Than you can go up in the mountain and do switchbacks and climb and climb which was about 5,000 feet here in Red Rock.

Yeah, it's a different world than back this way. The desert has it's own beauty (except at high noon in July when there is not any shade to be found ). Some parts of the west are all laid out in squares and rectangles and of course the roads are too and there aren't as many road options. (Tucson come to mind.) The only thing that sucks about that is that if you miss your turn, you are "committed" for a while until you can get to the next intersection. It's not like here where there's a turn every 1/2 km and there isn't straight open road anywhere.

There were some surprises as I never heard of cattle guards. I mean wtf are cattle guards?

Yeah, those are fun, huh? Lots of those all over the west. I remember first riding over my first one in northern NM. I wasn't sure what was going to happen to me and my bike as I passed over it.

Any goatheads (thorns) in NV or is that a NM thing? Have you seen a Monsoon (fast moving afternoon storm) or do they only get those in the summer?

 

[Steve_B]

25 MPH?! How about jumping cattle guards at 45 MPH mid-pack in a race. Oh, you east coast rookies!

Yeah, that would have me a bit concerned, you know, being a pansy from the right coast. Just like the NYC guys that I have occasion to race in CT hopping over BIG potholes in the middle of a 100 rider, 30 mph crit have me a bit nervous too. It's all cool until that one time this dude came down sideways. That was a shame.... I'm glad I was in front of that one.

 

[Piotr]

Cattle guard

 

[jsirabella]

Actually that type of cattle guard would not make me nervous as it is a wider railroad track so I can handle that. The ones I pased here in NV, the bars were laid vertical and they had gaps just like the one in your picture but shorter ofcourse and vertical. The wheel could easily fall into the vertical gap and the depth of the gap was pretty low. I hope you understand what I mean...

Luckily after I hit the first one I noticed a couple of the vertical steel beams were just wide enough to ride over. If you were in a pack and your wheel feel into the gap...bye bye wheel.

-Js

Cattle guard

 

[jsirabella]

When I first saw the sign I looked to my left and right thinking it was like a deer crossing sign and there was cattle around. I had no idea what the hell it meant and than as I came close enough I saw these yellow beams on the road and approached like a sewer cap but than as I looked close as was like ****, there are gaps in between beams so I just held on and was lucky that my wheel did not go into one of the gaps...

I have to admit as my wife keeps reminding me, it can be a whole other experience in July or August riding here!! I have to agree with her. It make me wonder how do they train out here when the heat comes in.

I did not see any monsoons or goatheads(never heard of that before). CP is as close as you can come to open in NYC but only at daybreak or at late night hours otherwise just loaded with runners, riders and everything else. Just writing that makes me want to extend my vacation another week.

-js

Yeah, it's a different world than back this way. The desert has it's own beauty (except at high noon in July when there is not any shade to be found ). Some parts of the west are all laid out in squares and rectangles and of course the roads are too and there aren't as many road options. (Tucson come to mind.) The only thing that sucks about that is that if you miss your turn, you are "committed" for a while until you can get to the next intersection. It's not like here where there's a turn every 1/2 km and there isn't straight open road anywhere.

Yeah, those are fun, huh? Lots of those all over the west. I remember first riding over my first one in northern NM. I wasn't sure what was going to happen to me and my bike as I passed over it.

Any goatheads (thorns) in NV or is that a NM thing? Have you seen a Monsoon (fast moving afternoon storm) or do they only get those in the summer?

 

[jsirabella]

Your kidding right...cowboys and steers in the middle of a road race. Were you ever really from NJ?

Alot of guys tell me how they get very nervous riding in Manhattan. I can tell you those switchbacks made me a little nervous on the descents. I guess it all comes down to where you trained. I wonder if that makes a big difference for race results. Meaning do the locals always usually take home the prizes and how often do the out-of-towners win.

-js

Unfortunately we've got some with wheel biter slots. It usually means the railroad tracks, I beams or pipe they used to build the guard weren't long enough so they pieced together shorter sections creating some expansion gaps set up perfectly to grab a 23c tire. I've gotten used to scanning ahead for those gaps when approaching a cattle guard which is why I hate coming up on one unexpectedly when riding deep in the field during a race. I sure like to see what's in front of my wheels but it's another good reason to practice some impromptu bunny hops on the road bike.

They were replacing a guard on a local road last summer and I came round the corner to see two of the pipes simply missing creating a couple of big deep steel potholes. Not much for it but a quick hop, still slammed the rear wheel kinda hard on the second missing rail.

We've definitely got our share of road hazards out West. Moose and Bison come to mind when training here and last summer we came off a fast descent in a road race in Idaho to find ourselves face to face with a road filling cattle drive. Yep, cowboys, horses, herding dogs and a couple of hundred steer all filling the road from fence to fence. The cattle were all spooked from the previous group that had pushed through behind their lead car and it was like looking down a stampede. Not much to do but hop the fences and cyclocross a quarter of a mile through freshly plowed fields. That was interesting in road cleats. Still I'll take it over taxi cabs, endless stoplights and Manhatten traffic

-Dave

 

[Piotr]

Unfortunately we've got some with wheel biter slots. It usually means the railroad tracks, I beams or pipe they used to build the guard weren't long enough so they pieced together shorter sections creating some expansion gaps set up perfectly to grab a 23c tire. I've gotten used to scanning ahead for those gaps when approaching a cattle guard which is why I hate coming up on one unexpectedly when riding deep in the field during a race. I sure like to see what's in front of my wheels but it's another good reason to practice some impromptu bunny hops on the road bike.

They were replacing a guard on a local road last summer and I came round the corner to see two of the pipes simply missing creating a couple of big deep steel potholes. Not much for it but a quick hop, still slammed the rear wheel kinda hard on the second missing rail.

We've definitely got our share of road hazards out West. Moose and Bison come to mind when training here and last summer we came off a fast descent in a road race in Idaho to find ourselves face to face with a road filling cattle drive. Yep, cowboys, horses, herding dogs and a couple of hundred steer all filling the road from fence to fence. The cattle were all spooked from the previous group that had pushed through behind their lead car and it was like looking down a stampede. Not much to do but hop the fences and cyclocross a quarter of a mile through freshly plowed fields. That was interesting in road cleats. Still I'll take it over taxi cabs, endless stoplights and Manhatten traffic

-Dave

It was hilarious! Garden Creek Gap, right? I was there and can vouch for the unplanned 10 min break during the race to let the cattle through. Need I mention dodging dung all over the roads for the next 3 laps?

 

[Steve_B]

We've definitely got our share of road hazards out West. Moose and Bison come to mind when training here and last summer we came off a fast descent in a road race in Idaho to find ourselves face to face with a road filling cattle drive.

One of the local spring races here goes on some roads near a horse farm. One year the horses were startled (bicycles easily startle horses), jumped over a fence and ran right into the 35+ field. I forget exactly what happened to my teammate but he ended up crashing (along with many other people) but fortunately wasn't extremely seriously hurt. Many others were hurt. I missed that race that year. Maybe it was a premonition.

 

[Steve_B]

I have to admit as my wife keeps reminding me, it can be a whole other experience in July or August riding here!! I have to agree with her. It make me wonder how do they train out here when the heat comes in.

The way they survive the summer in Tucson is to get out on the road at the crack of dawn. Races start at 6AM (just like Central Park, NYC, but not because of the heat ). It's the coolest part of the day. Daily average maximum temperature in June, July and August is around 100F.

 

[frenchyge]

Actually that type of cattle guard would not make me nervous as it is a wider railroad track so I can handle that. The ones I pased here in NV, the bars were laid vertical and they had gaps just like the one in your picture but shorter ofcourse and vertical. The wheel could easily fall into the vertical gap and the depth of the gap was pretty low. I hope you understand what I mean...

I've never ridden in that area. Maybe those are biker guards.

 

[frenchyge]

One of the local spring races here goes on some roads near a horse farm. One year the horses were startled (bicycles easily startle horses), jumped over a fence and ran right into the 35+ field. I forget exactly what happened to my teammate but he ended up crashing (along with many other people) but fortunately wasn't extremely seriously hurt. Many others were hurt. I missed that race that year. Maybe it was a premonition.

Oh man, I'd have to see a video of that just to imagine it. Maybe Pompalona, Spain should host an anual circuit race along the city streets.