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Reconsidering attitude to footy flags..

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UK and Europe
Published
20 June 2004
Last activity
25 June 2004
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Velvet
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  1. Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead (first
    half was most unpleasant - mostly my mental state/mood I think but just
    didn't feel part of the bike, tense, nervous, etc - but the second half
    things improved vastly and I was happily whooshing down nice sweeping
    downhills etc), we were overtaken by three cars in rapid succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and cut back in fairly
    close. The third gave plenty of room all round as it passed, though did
    then look to be attempting to climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it was the one
    that overtook with plenty of room to spare which had the twin ingerland
    mini-flags flying from the rear windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate monitor that has
    altitude, and it seems I'm not the only one to have invested in a
    height-aware new toy, t'other half (unknown to me at the time) has
    ordered a GPS too (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at
    maps when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I wanted
    to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer
    ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over a ride and
    compare how it felt at the time with what the heart was doing, in a
    number of different places. Have already realised that doing this for a
    ride of more than 30-60 mins is a LOT of info to look at, but the
    ability to get the resolution on a small stretch is very helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  2. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as hills. Any
    particular reason to be in Land of the Scientologists? (and Mormons
    seventh day whatevers and New Life church)

  3. Velvet said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I wanted
    to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer
    ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    Actually I want to use it to demonstrate that the height profiles in
    the Ultimate C2C Guide are a work of fiction.

  4. On 20/6/04 11:28 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Velvet"

    Quoted message said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire

    But hills is just an acronym for 'height increment leaving legs shattered',
    which then becomes relative to the legs concerned..

    Strangely enough, Cambridge has a hills road wheras Dundee doesn't (but does
    have a hilltown which *will* leave legs shattered)

    ...d

  5. MartinM said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as hills. Any
    particular reason to be in Land of the Scientologists? (and Mormons
    seventh day whatevers and New Life church)

    Other than it being relatively easy to get trains back towards home
    from, and the fact that had I started out in a better frame of mind we'd
    have gone further, and further from east grinstead lies forest row and
    the chance to drool over recumbents... no, not really any particular
    reason :-)

    Oh, apart from the fact that the other direction leads to busier roads
    and/or bigger hills, of course...

    --

    Velvet

  6. Simon Proven said:
    Velvet said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I
    wanted to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over
    a longer ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after
    hills[1] once I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    Actually I want to use it to demonstrate that the height profiles in
    the Ultimate C2C Guide are a work of fiction.

    Well, yes, that too :-)

    --

    Velvet

  7. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    MartinM said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as hills. Any
    particular reason to be in Land of the Scientologists? (and Mormons
    seventh day whatevers and New Life church)

    Other than it being relatively easy to get trains back towards home
    from, and the fact that had I started out in a better frame of mind we'd
    have gone further, and further from east grinstead lies forest row and
    the chance to drool over recumbents... no, not really any particular
    reason :-)

    A very good reason for coming back is the CTC Southern Challenge
    12.9.04 starts in town, see you there.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, apart from the fact that the other direction leads to busier roads
    and/or bigger hills, of course...

    But East Grinstead has bigger hils than (that's enough, Ed);-)

  8. David Martin said:

    On 20/6/04 11:28 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Velvet"

    Quoted message said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire

    But hills is just an acronym for 'height increment leaving legs shattered',
    which then becomes relative to the legs concerned..

    Strangely enough, Cambridge has a hills road wheras Dundee doesn't (but does
    have a hilltown which *will* leave legs shattered)

    Hills Road of course is flat. I think it points in the general
    direction of hills (or undulations for some of you). There's a
    short, sharpish climb if you keep going that way though it is not
    a pleasant road, turning as it does into a dual carriageway with
    a blind summit just after it does, and a hidden entrance just
    beyond the summit. I've only cycled over there once, coming the
    other way, and wouldn't use that route out of choice again.

    This weekend's Cambridge DA run is to Helions Bumpstead (where
    do they get the names from). This should provide a few more
    ups and downs. Though I may be taking it easy as I got a knock
    on the thigh playing football tonight, and it seems to have
    managed to get a nerve, judging by the pain reaching as far as
    my foot at times.

  9. On 21/6/04 11:03 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Simon Proven"

    Quoted message said:

    Hills Road of course is flat. I think it points in the general
    direction of hills (or undulations for some of you). There's a
    short, sharpish climb if you keep going that way

    That's the kerb at the next junction.

    ...d

  10. I've seen a few messages from people here about the subject of England flags
    in cars. What is the problem exactly? I can't believe that anybody can be
    bothered about that. I even saw a message of somebody calling a driver a
    [censored] b/c he had a flag on the window of the car? I just don't get it.
    There's a big football tournament going on, and whether you like football or
    not (I get the impression that the majority of cyclists don't like football.
    WHY?), what's wrong with showing support for your team? And you know what's
    the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian kids wearing the England
    shirt and black drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of their
    cars. As a foreigner, I find that such a possitive attitude. It never
    occured to me to make a relation between the flag thing and the quality of
    the driving!

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all drivers showing
    support for England are football hooligans. They are just football fans,
    happy that England is getting through to the finals.

    So, good luck for tonight against Portugal.

    COME ON ENGLAND!

    --
    Vivian
    -------
    "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
    No Surrender

    "Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead (first
    half was most unpleasant - mostly my mental state/mood I think but just
    didn't feel part of the bike, tense, nervous, etc - but the second half
    things improved vastly and I was happily whooshing down nice sweeping
    downhills etc), we were overtaken by three cars in rapid succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and cut back in fairly
    close. The third gave plenty of room all round as it passed, though did
    then look to be attempting to climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it was the one
    that overtook with plenty of room to spare which had the twin ingerland
    mini-flags flying from the rear windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate monitor that has
    altitude, and it seems I'm not the only one to have invested in a
    height-aware new toy, t'other half (unknown to me at the time) has
    ordered a GPS too (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at
    maps when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I wanted
    to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer
    ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over a ride and
    compare how it felt at the time with what the heart was doing, in a
    number of different places. Have already realised that doing this for a
    ride of more than 30-60 mins is a LOT of info to look at, but the
    ability to get the resolution on a small stretch is very helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  11. I suspect that most comments on the correlation (usually inverse) between
    driving skills and flags are tongue in cheek...

    HOWEVER,

    I did hear on the radio the other day someone phone in to say that the flags
    should be banned because they scared her horse!

    As a cyclist living in a rural area I've been used to getting less respect
    and consideration than horse riders from drivers, and am relatively happy
    with that because horses are daft, and the riders do have further to fall.
    I've often wondered whether it was also down to us being a nation of animal
    lovers, or more to do with the perception that a horse could do a lot more
    damage to the motor!

    Then again, I've seen horses spooked by such threatening articles as an
    empty black bucket in the ditch (and come galloping down the road and nearly
    flatten me on my bike as a result), and that, together with the lady on the
    radio's expectation that everybody should modify their behaviour to
    accommodate her mount's psychological frailties, sets me to thinking whether
    we expect too little from horse riders. Are their mounts fit for purpose, or
    even roadworthy? When horses were used as a genuine method of transport, I
    believe they were chosen for their temperament, reliability, utility etc.
    Nowadays the roads round here have horses on them which are the equine
    equivalent of a Formula One car, and about as temperamental. Now of course
    it wouldn't be legal to drive an F1 car on the road, but I'm not suggesting
    that there should be construction and use regs for horses, just wondering
    aloud whether the horse lobby should educate themselves and their horses
    better on the subject of road use.

    Perhaps, also, there might be a way getting the same respect for cyclists.
    Anyone for taping a fluffy kitten to the carrier? ;-)

    "Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've seen a few messages from people here about the subject of England


    flags

    Quoted message said:

    in cars. What is the problem exactly? I can't believe that anybody can be
    bothered about that. I even saw a message of somebody calling a driver a
    [censored] b/c he had a flag on the window of the car? I just don't get it.
    There's a big football tournament going on, and whether you like football


    or

    Quoted message said:

    not (I get the impression that the majority of cyclists don't like


    football.

    Quoted message said:

    WHY?), what's wrong with showing support for your team? And you know


    what's

    Quoted message said:

    the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian kids wearing the England
    shirt and black drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of their
    cars. As a foreigner, I find that such a possitive attitude. It never
    occured to me to make a relation between the flag thing and the quality of
    the driving!

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all drivers showing
    support for England are football hooligans. They are just football fans,
    happy that England is getting through to the finals.

    So, good luck for tonight against Portugal.

    COME ON ENGLAND!

    --
    Vivian
    -------
    "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in


    school".

    Quoted message said:

    No Surrender

    "Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead (first
    half was most unpleasant - mostly my mental state/mood I think but just
    didn't feel part of the bike, tense, nervous, etc - but the second half
    things improved vastly and I was happily whooshing down nice sweeping
    downhills etc), we were overtaken by three cars in rapid succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and cut back in fairly
    close. The third gave plenty of room all round as it passed, though did
    then look to be attempting to climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it was the one
    that overtook with plenty of room to spare which had the twin ingerland
    mini-flags flying from the rear windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate monitor that has
    altitude, and it seems I'm not the only one to have invested in a
    height-aware new toy, t'other half (unknown to me at the time) has
    ordered a GPS too (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at
    maps when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I wanted
    to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer
    ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over a ride and
    compare how it felt at the time with what the heart was doing, in a
    number of different places. Have already realised that doing this for a
    ride of more than 30-60 mins is a LOT of info to look at, but the
    ability to get the resolution on a small stretch is very helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  12. Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with
    showing support for your team? And you know what's the greatest thing?
    Here in London I see Asian kids wearing the England shirt and black
    drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all drivers showing
    support for England are football hooligans. They are just football
    fans, happy that England is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were up because of the
    football - thought it was something to do with the European elections &
    UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the car does correlate
    with driving style but simply because most football supporters will be
    young men. I'm not sure that this justifies the disparaging remarks made
    about the flags so I will brand you all looney lefties until you give me
    proper reasons for despising them.

  13. On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:30:58 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Pattle"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    As an aside, I have often thought of carrying a sign on the rear of my
    bike saying:

    "Slow down. Pass wide. Pretend I'm a horse".

    --
    Young Musician of the Year 2004 was a fiddle

  14. Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with
    showing support for your team? And you know what's the greatest thing?
    Here in London I see Asian kids wearing the England shirt and black
    drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all drivers showing
    support for England are football hooligans. They are just football
    fans, happy that England is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were up because of the
    football - thought it was something to do with the European elections &
    UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the car does correlate
    with driving style but simply because most football supporters will be
    young men. I'm not sure that this justifies the disparaging remarks made
    about the flags so I will brand you all looney lefties until you give me
    proper reasons for despising them.

    I have to say, a lot of the flagged cars are driven by idiots (I can
    tell from how they're being driven) - getting home to watch the match is
    NOT a valid excuse for throwing caution to the wind, performing
    dangerous overtaking maneuvres, exceeding all speedlimits, intimidating
    other drivers, etc.

    Then again, there are some who seem sane and normal.

    And one last weekend who was the ONLY one out of the three cars to pass
    that both had flags on it AND left ample room when passing, even though
    it did then try and climb in the boot of the second of the three... the
    other two had no flags and passed closer and faster than they really
    should have.

    --

    Velvet

  15. On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:30:58 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Pattle"
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:

    but I'm not suggesting
    that there should be construction and use regs for horses,

    Why not? We have such for dogs, nowadays, after all.

    Quoted message said:

    just wondering
    aloud whether the horse lobby should educate themselves and their horses
    better on the subject of road use.

    --
    Cheers,
    Euan
    Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
    Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

  16. Vivian said:

    I've seen a few messages from people here about the subject of England flags
    in cars. What is the problem exactly? I can't believe that anybody can be
    bothered about that. I even saw a message of somebody calling a driver a
    [censored] b/c he had a flag on the window of the car?

    If the flag was obscuring his vision in any way then he *was* a [censored].

    Of course the comments are largely tongue in cheek, although observation
    suggests that a lot of bad drivers are displaying flags.

    I'm surprised they can afford the extra fuel consumption resulting from
    the drag of the flags, given the way the poor dears keep bleating on
    about the price of petrol.

    Quoted message said:

    (I get the impression that the majority of cyclists don't like football.
    WHY?)

    Possibly because it's very, very dull.

    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with showing support for your team?

    I have a reflective cross of St George (about 3" long) stuck to the boom
    of my bike. Nothing to do with showing support for a football team, though.

    Quoted message said:

    As a foreigner,

    Have you got the hang of the British sense of humour yet? All the
    foreigners I've known who've spent more than a couple of months here
    have managed to pick it up.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  17. As a horse owner (who is just regaining confidence out hacking) and a
    recently converted bike rider I have to say I am always totally
    respectful to drivers who allow plenty of room (I do admit that is not
    always the case with cyclists or horse riders). I do have to bemoan the
    "us and them" attitude though - and yes you will find the same
    complaints on a horse site as well. We both want to be able to ride
    safely on the roads, we both want access to safe off roads routes, isn't
    it about time we worked togther?

    At the end of the day though half a ton of live animal is going to be
    more temperamental than a piece of metal. I wouldn't dream of going out
    on the road on a horse that I didn't consider 100% bombproof but the
    simple fact remains is that they are unpredictable animals and may spook
    at the strangest things (a blackboard left on the floor for instance -
    don't ask me why he found that scary yet the 30 tonne truck wasn't!). No
    amount of training of the horse or experience of the rider is going to
    change that fact.

    --

  18. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with
    showing support for your team? And you know what's the greatest thing?
    Here in London I see Asian kids wearing the England shirt and black
    drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all drivers showing
    support for England are football hooligans. They are just football
    fans, happy that England is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were up because of the
    football - thought it was something to do with the European elections &
    UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the car does correlate
    with driving style but simply because most football supporters will be
    young men. I'm not sure that this justifies the disparaging remarks made
    about the flags so I will brand you all looney lefties until you give me
    proper reasons for despising them.

    I have to say, a lot of the flagged cars are driven by idiots (I can
    tell from how they're being driven) - getting home to watch the match is
    NOT a valid excuse for throwing caution to the wind, performing
    dangerous overtaking maneuvres, exceeding all speedlimits, intimidating
    other drivers, etc.

    Then again, there are some who seem sane and normal.

    And one last weekend who was the ONLY one out of the three cars to pass
    that both had flags on it AND left ample room when passing, even though
    it did then try and climb in the boot of the second of the three... the
    other two had no flags and passed closer and faster than they really
    should have.

    So how are we going to spot them now? ps wanna buy a flag/duvet
    cover/blow up armchair/fridge/ ;-(

  19. UEFA have overruled the referee in the England V Portugal game and
    have subsequently allowed the previously disallowed goal. This means
    that England are now through to the next round, whereas Portugal are
    not.

    Carlsberg don't do Usenet but if they did they would probably post the
    best messages in the world.

    --
    DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
    appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with.
    Anything which is sent to me (whether intended or not)
    may, if I so desire, form a legal and binding contract.

  20. Quoted message said:

    UEFA have overruled the referee in the England V Portugal game and
    have subsequently allowed the previously disallowed goal. This means
    that England are now through to the next round, whereas Portugal are
    not.

    Wishful thinking?

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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