General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Recommitting

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
17 November 2004
Last activity
25 November 2004
Original author
Luna
Posts
125
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Luna said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    (billydee) said:


    Bottom line. Smoking is much more likely to kill you than being
    slightly overweight. Do you want to live or do you want to look good?

    Both. :o) I want to quit smoking. I don't feel ready yet. It takes
    tools
    that I don't have in my arsenal right now. I don't have resolve,
    commitment, willpower, mental strength, emotional strength, or optimism
    about my chances for success. Those qualities vanished when I started
    gaining weight back. I'm hoping success in weight loss will bring them
    back.

    DH quit smoking on Memorial Day, gained about 20 lbs, and went back to
    smoking a couple of weeks ago. Anxiety and stress have a lot to do with
    the reason he started smoking again (he was recently laid off), vanity
    also plays a part--who in the world wants to gain 20 lbs and go up in
    pant size?

    I was very dissapoined when I found out he was smoking again--in fact, I
    was angry--but I realize that he, and only he, can make quitting work.
    Hell, I still, after nine years, miss smoking. I know it's hard.

    So Luna, do what you can do, and do what's best for you. If you have
    room for only one change in your life, choose the one that will make you
    feel successful and strong, then tackle the next change you want to make.

    Good luck to you.

    Amy
    168/115

  2. Jamie, this is one very very supportive and warming post. Thanks for posting
    although the audience you were targeting wasn't me. About the weighting issue -
    I saw someone here once said that you can weight yourself with two bathroom
    scales, one foot on each scale and then you add the numbers up.

    Keep moving girl and keep going to the Y!

    ~~Jaime~~ said:

    Michelle, I have been told I have an enlarged left atrium in my heart. I am
    at LEAST 200 pounds overweight. I am not certain on exactly what I weigh
    because I cannot find a scale that goes as high as my weight. I can barely
    walk from my bedroom to the bathroom at this point and I get so tired and
    fatigued and out of breath it is not even funny. I look in the mirror and
    am disgusted by what I see from the neck down. It is a *chore* just for me
    to walk to the bus stop to get to the Y to exercise but starting Monday when
    my new membership is approved I will be down there because I HAVE to do this
    so I will not die an early death. You have to do the same thing to in
    regards to quitting smoking. You do not want to die an early death. I know
    you don't. Your dad sure doesn't want you too either and I know you love
    him. If you cannot quit smoking for you....then quit for him.

  3. [email hidden] (~Ginger~) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    So it never goes away completely. That's what I've heard. No looking
    back for me either. Now it's back to low carbing since I've gotten one
    bad habit out of my system. :-)

    It's never quite gone away, but my mom doesn't regret any of it. She
    and my father both quit when they had me, because they didn't want to
    have a kid that would see their parents' example and become a smoker.
    And I never did take up the habit. [Experimented with it briefly at
    20, but it didn't stick.]

  4. There are studies that shows that most people have overestimated the risks of
    getting cancer as a result of smoking. OK, before you guy start jumping on me
    I'll try to be clearer and illustrate my point with an example.

    Say e.g. that the risk of developing lung cancer by the age of 40 if one smokes
    10 cigarettes a day is 30%. But if you ask a random group of pedestrians to
    give you an estimated probability of developing lung cancer at the circumstances
    cited above is possibly 50%.

    There were researchers who actually suggested that the governments should
    actually subsidise cigarettes because people are overly cautious about smoking
    - their perceived risks of developing cancer is higher than what the statistics
    actually tell us.

    I am not saying that Luna, or anyone for that matter, should not try to give up
    smoking. But it's not like it's the biggest ever thing in the world. So leave
    her alone.

    rosie readandpost said:

    interesting interpretation of posts that are meant to SUPPORT (not
    enable stinking thinking), and let luna know that she CAN do this,
    and hopefully, BEFORE she does any great damage from those damn
    cancer sticks.

  5. "Ada Ma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There are studies that shows that most people have overestimated the risks


    of

    Quoted message said:

    getting cancer as a result of smoking. OK, before you guy start jumping


    on me

    Quoted message said:

    I'll try to be clearer and illustrate my point with an example.

    Say e.g. that the risk of developing lung cancer by the age of 40 if one


    smokes

    Quoted message said:

    10 cigarettes a day is 30%. But if you ask a random group of pedestrians


    to

    Quoted message said:

    give you an estimated probability of developing lung cancer at the


    circumstances

    Quoted message said:

    cited above is possibly 50%.

    There were researchers who actually suggested that the governments should
    actually subsidise cigarettes because people are overly cautious about


    smoking

    Quoted message said:

    - their perceived risks of developing cancer is higher than what the


    statistics

    Quoted message said:

    actually tell us.

    I am not saying that Luna, or anyone for that matter, should not try to


    give up

    Quoted message said:

    smoking. But it's not like it's the biggest ever thing in the world. So


    leave

    Quoted message said:

    her alone.

    How is the perceived risk harmful?

  6. "Ada Ma" : There are studies that shows that most people have overestimated
    the risks of
    : getting cancer as a result of smoking.

    The problem with your logic is that cancer is not the only problem
    associated with smoking cigarettes.
    A friend of mine died from an aortic aneurysm caused by cigarette smoking.
    How does that work? The nicotine causes your arteries to harden. The aorta
    must flex constantly with every heartbeat. By and by, it got so hard that it
    could not expand, and it burst at the weakest point, which, typically is
    either in the brain or at the junction where the aorta splits to go down
    into each leg. I trust you have heard the phrase "hardening of the
    arteries" thrown around. Then there are other diseases caused by smoking.
    No, cancer is not the only danger from a nicotine addiction.

    Pat in TX

  7. : DH quit smoking on Memorial Day, gained about 20 lbs, and went back to
    : smoking a couple of weeks ago. Anxiety and stress have a lot to do with
    : the reason he started smoking again (he was recently laid off), vanity
    : also plays a part--who in the world wants to gain 20 lbs and go up in
    : pant size?
    :
    : I was very dissapoined when I found out he was smoking again--in fact, I
    : was angry--but I realize that he, and only he, can make quitting work.
    : Hell, I still, after nine years, miss smoking. I know it's hard.
    :
    : So Luna, do what you can do, and do what's best for you. If you have
    : room for only one change in your life, choose the one that will make you
    : feel successful and strong, then tackle the next change you want to make.
    :
    : Good luck to you.
    :
    : Amy

    And don't worry about the emphysema. It only happens to other people.

    Pat in TX

  8. And nicotine addiction isn't the only reason for any of the problems you
    listed, but it is a handy hook to hang every thing on.

    --
    Cheri

    Pat wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    The problem with your logic is that cancer is not the only problem
    associated with smoking cigarettes.
    A friend of mine died from an aortic aneurysm caused by cigarette


    smoking.

    Quoted message said:

    How does that work? The nicotine causes your arteries to harden. The


    aorta

    Quoted message said:

    must flex constantly with every heartbeat. By and by, it got so hard


    that it

    Quoted message said:

    could not expand, and it burst at the weakest point, which, typically


    is

    Quoted message said:

    either in the brain or at the junction where the aorta splits to go


    down

    Quoted message said:

    into each leg. I trust you have heard the phrase "hardening of the
    arteries" thrown around. Then there are other diseases caused by


    smoking.

    Quoted message said:

    No, cancer is not the only danger from a nicotine addiction.

    Pat in TX

  9. : And nicotine addiction isn't the only reason for any of the problems you
    : listed, but it is a handy hook to hang every thing on.
    :
    : --
    : Cheri

    It's there; it's real. It won't go away just because you call it a "handy
    hook" to marginalize it.
    Deal with it---don't try to wish it away.

    Pat in TX

  10. To Pat: Mine was an example of how people might over estimate the health
    associated risks caused by cigarette smoking, which consequently make them to
    take choices that are less than optimal. It's kind of similar to those people
    who refuse to fly anywhere and would rather drive because they wrongly assume
    the chance of being a victim of a plane crash is higher than being a victim of a
    road accident.

    To Cheri: I apologise for replying to Pat via your post instead of directly to
    Pat's post because I don't get her posts on my newshost. I appreciate your
    point as well - it's like lots of those studies that correlate obesity with
    diseases and other health issues. It's just nuts - some of the researchers have
    no idea that correlation does not equal causation. Correlation found between,
    say, obesity and brain power (as we can read from the cross poster's posts)
    could be a pure statistical coincidence driven by mistakes made in sample
    selection, excluding important variables, wrong assumptions regarding the
    structure of the statistical model, etc.

    Cheri said:

    And nicotine addiction isn't the only reason for any of the problems you
    listed, but it is a handy hook to hang every thing on.

    --
    Cheri

    Pat wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    The problem with your logic is that cancer is not the only problem
    associated with smoking cigarettes.
    A friend of mine died from an aortic aneurysm caused by cigarette

    smoking.

    Quoted message said:

    How does that work? The nicotine causes your arteries to harden. The

    aorta

    Quoted message said:

    must flex constantly with every heartbeat. By and by, it got so hard

    that it

    Quoted message said:

    could not expand, and it burst at the weakest point, which, typically

    is

    Quoted message said:

    either in the brain or at the junction where the aorta splits to go

    down

    Quoted message said:

    into each leg. I trust you have heard the phrase "hardening of the
    arteries" thrown around. Then there are other diseases caused by

    smoking.

    Quoted message said:

    No, cancer is not the only danger from a nicotine addiction.

    Pat in TX

  11. the Moderator said:

    "Ada Ma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There are studies that shows that most people have overestimated the risks

    of

    Quoted message said:

    getting cancer as a result of smoking. OK, before you guy start jumping

    on me

    Quoted message said:

    I'll try to be clearer and illustrate my point with an example.

    Say e.g. that the risk of developing lung cancer by the age of 40 if one

    smokes

    Quoted message said:

    10 cigarettes a day is 30%. But if you ask a random group of pedestrians

    to

    Quoted message said:

    give you an estimated probability of developing lung cancer at the

    circumstances

    Quoted message said:

    cited above is possibly 50%.

    There were researchers who actually suggested that the governments should
    actually subsidise cigarettes because people are overly cautious about

    smoking

    Quoted message said:

    - their perceived risks of developing cancer is higher than what the

    statistics

    Quoted message said:

    actually tell us.

    I am not saying that Luna, or anyone for that matter, should not try to

    give up

    Quoted message said:

    smoking. But it's not like it's the biggest ever thing in the world. So

    leave

    Quoted message said:

    her alone.

    How is the perceived risk harmful?

    Using the set up from my previous post, let's say person A really enjoy smoking
    and would gladly keep on smoking if he knows that the risk is 30%, which is the
    real risk. However, he gave up smoking because his perception of the risk is
    20% too high compared to the real risk. In this case he gave up something that
    he really enjoy for something that is less than what he think he's bargained for.

    May be smoking is an example that is hard to bend one's head around the idea
    because of all the health education that has been drilled into our minds. Let's
    take the example of vegetables. We all know that it's good for us but does our
    perception of the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with reality? If our
    perception about the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with reality, then
    assuming that we're sensible human beings, we would eat enough of it to generate
    the best health results. However it's possible that a large number of us
    underestimate the healthfulness of vegetables and do not eat enough of it. In
    this case some might argue that the government should jump in and advertise
    about the goodness of eating more veg or may be even subsidise veg.

  12. : To Pat: Mine was an example of how people might over estimate the health
    : associated risks caused by cigarette smoking, which consequently make them
    to
    : take choices that are less than optimal. It's kind of similar to those
    people
    : who refuse to fly anywhere and would rather drive because they wrongly
    assume
    : the chance of being a victim of a plane crash is higher than being a
    victim of a
    : road accident.

    Your "examples" focus ONLY on perceived lung cancer risk; there are far more
    diseases and dangers from smoking than simply lung cancer. Therefore, your
    examples grossly underestimate the real dangers and may give people a false
    sense of safety.

    Pat in TX

  13. Smoking has other drawbacks in addition to the health risks. Smokers smell
    terrible to non-smokers so if you are looking for a significant other you
    will be limiting the pool of potential candidates. There are a lot of
    places where smoking is prohibited so you may find yourself standing in the
    cold and rain in order to get your fix. If you have children you may be
    exposing them to health risks from second hand smoke--it's one thing to risk
    your own health, another to put your children at risk.

    In news:[email hidden],
    Ada Ma <[email hidden]> stated
    |
    | Using the set up from my previous post, let's say person A really
    | enjoy smoking
    | and would gladly keep on smoking if he knows that the risk is 30%,
    | which is the
    | real risk. However, he gave up smoking because his perception of the
    | risk is
    | 20% too high compared to the real risk. In this case he gave up
    | something that
    | he really enjoy for something that is less than what he think he's
    | bargained for.
    |
    | May be smoking is an example that is hard to bend one's head around
    | the idea
    | because of all the health education that has been drilled into our
    | minds. Let's
    | take the example of vegetables. We all know that it's good for us
    | but does our
    | perception of the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with reality?
    | If our
    | perception about the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with
    | reality, then
    | assuming that we're sensible human beings, we would eat enough of it
    | to generate
    | the best health results. However it's possible that a large number
    | of us
    | underestimate the healthfulness of vegetables and do not eat enough
    | of it. In
    | this case some might argue that the government should jump in and
    | advertise
    | about the goodness of eating more veg or may be even subsidise veg.

  14. There are even more drawbacks. I spend money on cigarettes that I could be
    saving for my future or spending on concerts, plays, books, or other things
    that could enlighten or educate me. I get minor illnesses like colds more
    readily. Occasionally I drop a cigarette and get a burn hole in my
    clothing. My complexion is duller and my pores are more clogged.

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    FOB said:

    Smoking has other drawbacks in addition to the health risks. Smokers smell
    terrible to non-smokers so if you are looking for a significant other you
    will be limiting the pool of potential candidates. There are a lot of
    places where smoking is prohibited so you may find yourself standing in the
    cold and rain in order to get your fix. If you have children you may be
    exposing them to health risks from second hand smoke--it's one thing to risk
    your own health, another to put your children at risk.

    In news:[email hidden],
    Ada Ma <[email hidden]> stated
    |
    | Using the set up from my previous post, let's say person A really
    | enjoy smoking
    | and would gladly keep on smoking if he knows that the risk is 30%,
    | which is the
    | real risk. However, he gave up smoking because his perception of the
    | risk is
    | 20% too high compared to the real risk. In this case he gave up
    | something that
    | he really enjoy for something that is less than what he think he's
    | bargained for.
    |
    | May be smoking is an example that is hard to bend one's head around
    | the idea
    | because of all the health education that has been drilled into our
    | minds. Let's
    | take the example of vegetables. We all know that it's good for us
    | but does our
    | perception of the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with reality?
    | If our
    | perception about the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with
    | reality, then
    | assuming that we're sensible human beings, we would eat enough of it
    | to generate
    | the best health results. However it's possible that a large number
    | of us
    | underestimate the healthfulness of vegetables and do not eat enough
    | of it. In
    | this case some might argue that the government should jump in and
    | advertise
    | about the goodness of eating more veg or may be even subsidise veg.

    --
    Michelle Levin
    http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

    I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

  15. Ada Ma said:

    There are studies that shows that most people have overestimated the
    risks of getting cancer as a result of smoking. OK, before you guy
    start jumping on me I'll try to be clearer and illustrate my point with
    an example.

    Say e.g. that the risk of developing lung cancer by the age of 40 if one
    smokes 10 cigarettes a day is 30%. But if you ask a random group of
    pedestrians to give you an estimated probability of developing lung
    cancer at the circumstances cited above is possibly 50%.

    That's true. Likewise, people got all freaked out about alar in apples and
    women are far more likely to worry about breast cancer when heart disease
    is a much bigger killer of women.

    That said. Have you ever *seen* someone die of lung cancer? My mother was
    62 years old. She was otherwise extremely healthy (full disclosure prompts
    me to add that she did have a small breast cancer, but her doctors agreed
    that there was only a very small chance that that would have killed her
    and in fact before the lung cancer was found they expected that she would
    make a full recovery from that). It was a horrible death. She didn't want
    to go to a hospital, and with the help of hospice and one of my sisters
    (we all helped as we could, but she went and stayed at my parents' house
    for most of my mother's illness) my mother was able to die at home. But it
    was a terrible experience for everyone.

    She left a grandson whom she adored and on whom she was a tremdous
    influence. She never saw her other two grandsons. My father, her husband
    of over 40 years, died a little over a year after her death. I can't prove
    it, but I absolutely believe that he died because of her death.

    I miss her. I'd love to be able to show off my dieting success to her. I'd
    love to be able to call her and ask her some questions I have about
    cooking my turkey. Mostly though, I regret the fact that her grandsons are
    going to grow up without her. She had a gift for opening children's minds
    to learning and teaching them to be decent human beings with it.

    Her death was preventable. She was very honest that while the cigarette
    companies may have misled her about the risks, that she chose to continue
    smoking even when she knew the risks. She did, eventually, quit, but by
    then it was too late.

    While it is true that the risk that any one smoker will die of lung cancer
    is not, in fact, all that high, it's still a bad, avoidable death. And the
    losses beyond the person themself are incalculable.

    None of this has anything to do with Luna. Like everything else, she won't
    be able to quit until she's in the place where she's ready to do it. I
    hope it comes soon for her. I work at a University and I see the young
    people, especially the girls, walking around with cigarettes and I want to
    shake them. I want to tell them about the black vomit and the smell and
    that if they're smoking for weight loss, yes, they will be thin when they
    die. But, in a way, I think they underestimate the risk. They know that
    that will happen to some percentage of people, but never to *them.*. But,
    of course, it wouldn't do any good. All I can hope is that if, in the end,
    it is them, that their passing will be easier than what I witnessed.

    Martha

    Oh, happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

    --
    "ALPO is 99 cents a can. That's over SEVEN dog dollars!!"
    Revek - ASDLC

  16. "Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There are even more drawbacks. I spend money on cigarettes that I could


    be

    Quoted message said:

    saving for my future or spending on concerts, plays, books, or other


    things

    Quoted message said:

    that could enlighten or educate me. I get minor illnesses like colds more
    readily. Occasionally I drop a cigarette and get a burn hole in my
    clothing. My complexion is duller and my pores are more clogged.

    Now there are several good reasons for quitting.

    Ah..books...I need some more books. :-)

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    ~~Jaime~~ said:

    "Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There are even more drawbacks. I spend money on cigarettes that I could


    be

    Quoted message said:

    saving for my future or spending on concerts, plays, books, or other


    things

    Quoted message said:

    that could enlighten or educate me. I get minor illnesses like colds more
    readily. Occasionally I drop a cigarette and get a burn hole in my
    clothing. My complexion is duller and my pores are more clogged.

    Now there are several good reasons for quitting.

    Ah..books...I need some more books. :-)

    Well, fear of cancer or death has never been a big motivator for me.
    Enough non-smokers in my family have gotten cancer that I'm pretty sure I'm
    going to get it whether I smoke or not. And saying I could die earlier
    from smoking just makes me think, well, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow
    and die whether I smoke or not.

    --
    Michelle Levin
    http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

    I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

  18. Luna said:

    There are even more drawbacks. I spend money on cigarettes that I could be
    saving for my future or spending on concerts, plays, books, or other things
    that could enlighten or educate me. I get minor illnesses like colds more
    readily. Occasionally I drop a cigarette and get a burn hole in my
    clothing. My complexion is duller and my pores are more clogged.

    Oh, and you're more likely to get periodontal disease and have more
    trouble getting rid of it. If you want to maximize your likelihood of
    keeping all your teeth, smoking is not the way to go.

    Martha

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    FOB said:

    Smoking has other drawbacks in addition to the health risks. Smokers smell
    terrible to non-smokers so if you are looking for a significant other you
    will be limiting the pool of potential candidates. There are a lot of
    places where smoking is prohibited so you may find yourself standing in the
    cold and rain in order to get your fix. If you have children you may be
    exposing them to health risks from second hand smoke--it's one thing to risk
    your own health, another to put your children at risk.

    In news:[email hidden],
    Ada Ma <[email hidden]> stated
    |
    | Using the set up from my previous post, let's say person A really
    | enjoy smoking
    | and would gladly keep on smoking if he knows that the risk is 30%,
    | which is the
    | real risk. However, he gave up smoking because his perception of the
    | risk is
    | 20% too high compared to the real risk. In this case he gave up
    | something that
    | he really enjoy for something that is less than what he think he's
    | bargained for.
    |
    | May be smoking is an example that is hard to bend one's head around
    | the idea
    | because of all the health education that has been drilled into our
    | minds. Let's
    | take the example of vegetables. We all know that it's good for us
    | but does our
    | perception of the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with reality?
    | If our
    | perception about the healthfulness of vegetables conincide with
    | reality, then
    | assuming that we're sensible human beings, we would eat enough of it
    | to generate
    | the best health results. However it's possible that a large number
    | of us
    | underestimate the healthfulness of vegetables and do not eat enough
    | of it. In
    | this case some might argue that the government should jump in and
    | advertise
    | about the goodness of eating more veg or may be even subsidise veg.

    --
    "ALPO is 99 cents a can. That's over SEVEN dog dollars!!"
    Revek - ASDLC

  19. "Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lunachick-> >

    Quoted message said:

    Well, fear of cancer or death has never been a big motivator for me.

    It wasn't a big motivation for me either when I quit smoking.
    I just wanted to be able to get up in the mornings without coughing up a
    lung
    and the fact that my 2 boys had asthma at the time also might have had
    something to do with my quitting.
    I could not smoke around them.

  20. The cost is why I never started smoking. I have always loved clothes and
    would rather spend money on them instead of cigarettes. I went to college
    for a year after high school and saw the smokers scrounging for butts to get
    their fix. That really turned me off to smoking, I never wanted to be that
    much a slave to a habit. My parents both smoked and told me if I wanted to
    smoke I should do it at home. That probably helped, too, as it didn't have
    the forbidden fruit allure. I am so glad I never started.

    In news:[email hidden],
    Luna <[email hidden]> stated
    | There are even more drawbacks. I spend money on cigarettes that I
    | could be saving for my future or spending on concerts, plays, books,
    | or other things that could enlighten or educate me. I get minor
    | illnesses like colds more readily. Occasionally I drop a cigarette
    | and get a burn hole in my clothing. My complexion is duller and my
    | pores are more clogged.
    |

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