Recommend a racer?

[Roos Eisma]

Colin MacDonald <[email protected]> writes:

>Perhaps it's more manufacturer-dependent than I thought. Looking
>around the various websites you can still get last-year models, though
>mostly in the more extreme sizes. When I was looking at new bikes
>(last October) most of the current (at the time) ranges were being
>marked down and the '08 models were becoming available on the web.

>That said, if Roos got her bike locally then it might be different
>timescales; I can imagine discounted LBS stock taking longer to shift
>than via mail order simply due to having less exposure and fewer
>potential customers.

I bought it locally, but was alerted to the offer because a number of
online shops had it. They brought up a list of discounted models on the
Specialized dealers network. So I think it is a national surplus they're
trying to shift. They seemed to have them in almost all sizes.
The Specialized website doesn't show last year's models anymore, and many
online dealer are mixed up about the models as well so it is tricky to
find the right specs.

I think the model (Globe City 3.1) is being dumped because it didn't sell,
and they have revamped the range this year. Which is quite confusing
because they shifted the numbers around in an odd way.

So the 2007 3.1 model has the hub gear and the 6.1 didn't. This year the 6
has hub gears and the 3 doesn't.
Last year's 3.1 is similar to this year's 6 but posher: premium hub,
smarter dynohub, carbon fork, and thus œ799 which supposedly didn't sell,
so they're now selling them for œ599. The 6 this year is prized at œ499
which may work better in the commuter market.


Roos

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-03-20, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
> Better groupsets essentially give more precise gearchanges and don't go out
> of adjustment so quickly. You should be looking for Campagnolo Veloce or
> Centaur, Shimano Tiagra or Ultegra, or SRAM Rival. Obviously all three
> manufacturers produce better groupsets, but you get very nearly as good
> engineering in the middle groupsets with very much lower prices. I'd tend
> to avoid bikes which have a mix of components from half a dozen different
> groupsets, though; they're scraped together from whatever was left in the
> parts bin.

This is something in particular to watch out for on new bikes. Sometimes
they give you Campag shifters and mechs since that's what you notice,
but look closely and check they haven't downgraded you to a Miche
cassette (whose teeth drop off) or generic no-brand hubs. If they have
it's not a deal-breaker, you can replace that stuff when it wears out,
but you should factor it into the price.

Some new bikes also have quite suspicious-looking black-painted steel
spokes, intended to give the vague impression of carbon fibre from a
distance. They might not even be stainless steel (shudder).

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-03-20, blackhead <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 Mar, 07:23, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> blackhead wrote:
>> > After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
>> > hope you don't mind me posting this question here.
>>
>> > I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
>> > you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
>> > something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
>> > something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
>> > than something to train me for the Tour De France.
>>
>> We do need to know more than this. How experienced a cyclist are you, how
>> far do you regularly ride, what are your riding targets over the next few
>> years? Do you actually intend to race, and if so, time trials, crits,
>> australian pursuit? Do you intend to ride audax?
>
> Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
> enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
> looking.

That rules out a tourer then.

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-03-20, Nick <[email protected]> wrote:
> Henry Lockwood wrote:
> The one downside I've noticed is that the
>> gear cables stretch faster than I'd have anticipated, though I don't
>> know if that's me being heavy-handed with them.
>>
>
> Curious I would have thought all gear cables were much of muchness.
> However the rear cable on my trek 1000 did break after about a year. I
> do change gear constantly.
>
> I replaced the cables but still haven't got the Sora lever clicking
> quite like it used to. Apart from the click it works fine.

I think there's more variation in the outer cables, which might scrunch
up thereby altering the effective cable length.

You are supposed to use different outers for brake and gear cables. If
the OP has gear cable outers on his brakes that could explain the
issues.

As for inner cables, some of them claim to be "pre-stretched", and some
are coated in some kind of magic teflon, but I think the main difference
is whether you get stainless ones or not. If not they rust.

 

[Simon Brooke]

blackhead wrote:

> On 20 Mar, 07:23, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> blackhead wrote:
>> > After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
>> > hope you don't mind me posting this question here.
>>
>> > I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
>> > you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
>> > something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
>> > something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
>> > than something to train me for the Tour De France.
>>
>> We do need to know more than this. How experienced a cyclist are you, how
>> far do you regularly ride, what are your riding targets over the next few
>> years? Do you actually intend to race, and if so, time trials, crits,
>> australian pursuit? Do you intend to ride audax?
>
> Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
> enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
> looking.
>
[snip]
>
> I'm thinking of perhaps buying a racer from the Revolution range by
> Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op which are supposedly good value:
>
>
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...WebLinkID=12370&f_bct=c012372c012370&f_page=2
>
> What ya think?

Edinburgh Bike co-op are generally good value for money, but at the bottom
end of usable technology. The Revolution Continental has aluminium forks,
which will transmit more road vibration to your hands than carbon. It has
the very bottom end of Shimano integrated shifters, and pretty low-end
derailleurs - which will work, but which won't be precise and won't stay in
adjustment well. Frankly I'd pay a bit more and get carbon forks and a
Campag groupset - Ribble sell a 'winter training bike' in that spec for
about £500, although they don't have a good reputation for mail order; the
Claud Butler Milano is the same price with carbon forks but Shimano Sora
groupset.

If you want to use the bike in all weathers then mudguards are probably a
good idea - I don't use them because I'm deeply prejudiced against them,
but most people do and they certainly keep the bike cleaner.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

 

[Simon Brooke]

Colin MacDonald wrote:

> On 20 Mar, 07:23, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Under £500 you are buying
>> * A low end Shimano groupset - 105 at best
>
> ...
>
>> Better groupsets essentially give more precise gearchanges and don't go
>> out of adjustment so quickly. You should be looking for Campagnolo Veloce
>> or Centaur, Shimano Tiagra or Ultegra, or SRAM Rival.
>
> Simon, I think you are confusing 105 & Tiagra here.

Probably, yes. Cheap nasty Japanese muck, all of it

> The Shimano
> groupsets go:
> 2200 -> Sora -> Tiagra -> 105 -> Ultegra -> Dura Ace.

Yup, you're right, I was getting confused.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

 

[Simon Brooke]

Ben C wrote:

> You are supposed to use different outers for brake and gear cables. If
> the OP has gear cable outers on his brakes that could explain the
> issues.

This matters. Modern gear cables outers - with the wires in a loose helix -
are more precise for gear shifting, but crush under emergency braking loads
so that when you most need your brakes they aren't there. Do NOT ask me how
I know this - especially since I knew it in principle /before/ I found out
the hard way.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>, Simon Brooke
[email protected] says...
> Colin MacDonald wrote:

> > Simon, I think you are confusing 105 & Tiagra here.
>
> Probably, yes. Cheap nasty Japanese muck, all of it
>
I bet it's never even been to Japan.

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>, Ben C
[email protected] says...
> On 2008-03-20, blackhead <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
> > enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
> > looking.
>
> That rules out a tourer then.
>
But not a crosser with mudguards.

 

[Simon Brooke]

Rob Morley wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Ben C
> [email protected] says...
>> On 2008-03-20, blackhead <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
>> > enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
>> > looking.
>>
>> That rules out a tourer then.
>>
> But not a crosser with mudguards.

Nor a winter training bike.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

 

[David Martin]

On Mar 20, 10:41 pm, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Edinburgh Bike co-op are generally good value for money, but at the bottom
> end of usable technology.

It depends on your definition of usable. For fun sport riding (ie
reasonably fast, able to get up and sprint and feel lively but not
necessarily race pedigree) then you are probably right - though
Halfords have some good deals in if you are careful about what you are
looking for.

> The Revolution Continental has aluminium forks,
> which will transmit more road vibration to your hands than carbon. It has
> the very bottom end of Shimano integrated shifters, and pretty low-end
> derailleurs - which will work, but which won't be precise and won't stay in
> adjustment well.

The bottom end stuff works fine. But it does wear out fairly rapidly.
We swapped some bits on a young lads bike last night at the club - put
on a near 20 year old Ultegra rear mech that had seen plenty of
service to replace a tourney mech that was a few years old but now
somewhat sloppy.

> Frankly I'd pay a bit more and get carbon forks and a
> Campag groupset

Apart from their cassette hub which is somewhat retrograde compared to
the Shimano one. The campag stuff at the bottom end (Xenon/Mirage) is
fairly rough, though it looks nice. Better off with Tiagra/105 - and
spend money where it isn't necessarily seen but will make a
difference. Rear mech - rear hub - front hub. Get good ones of those
and they will last many years.

> Ribble sell a 'winter training bike' in that spec for
> about £500, although they don't have a good reputation for mail order;

Ribbles poor reputation is based on a few loudmouthed people with a
large audience. I have never had any problems in dealing with Ribble
in over 20 years. Neither has anyone I know personally. Their bikes
are excellent value.

However, if you can get to a bike shop, you could do worse than look
at something like the Giant SCR3. (The SCR4 is too much of a
compromise quality wise to be value for money). The Boardman bikes are
also good value. But no bike is worth the money unless it fits you so
test riding really should be on your list of things to do.

..d

 

[Ekul Namsob]

blackhead <[email protected]> wrote:

> After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
> hope you don't mind me posting this question here.
>
> I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
> you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
> something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
> something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
> than something to train me for the Tour De France.
>
> So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

> £400-500

I've had a Ribble for the last year and it's been fantastic. There is a
lot to be said for being measured up for your bike by people who know
what they are doing: there is more to buying a bike than just having the
right size frame: the cranks, handlebars and stem are also relevant
factors.

I believe you can currently get last year's spec Ribble Audax for £399
at the moment.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[Mark T]

David Martin writtificated

> Apart from their cassette hub which is somewhat retrograde compared to
> the Shimano one.

Wot's a cassette hub?

> The campag stuff at the bottom end (Xenon/Mirage) is
> fairly rough, though it looks nice. Better off with Tiagra/105

Shimano 105 is priced to compete with Campagnolo Veloce. Tiagra sits bang
in the middle of Xenon and Mirage.

Where Campagnolo win out is having 10 speed throughtout the range. Shimano
Sora and Tiagra are still 9 speed (I say still - Sora only moved up to 9
spd for '08).

> The SCR4 is too much of a compromise quality wise to be value for money

Seconded...

> But no bike is worth the money unless it fits you so
> test riding really should be on your list of things to do.

...and again.

 

[Andrew Price]

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:41:24 -0000, Rob Morley <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Probably, yes. Cheap nasty Japanese muck, all of it
>>
>I bet it's never even been to Japan.

Exactly - it probably comes from a smoky industrial suburb of Shenyang
or Xian.

 

[Pete Biggs]

David Martin wrote:

> On Mar 20, 10:41 pm, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ribble sell a 'winter training bike' in that spec for
>> about £500, although they don't have a good reputation for mail
>> order;
>
> Ribbles poor reputation is based on a few loudmouthed people with a
> large audience. I have never had any problems in dealing with Ribble
> in over 20 years. Neither has anyone I know personally. Their bikes
> are excellent value.

Those of us who have had problems (serious problems) don't tend to make the
same kind of comments about their competitors. Ribble's way of acting, and
non-acting, after *they* make mistakes is uniquely disgusting, in my
experience with many cycle equipment dealers.

~PB

 

[Pete Biggs]

Mark T wrote:
> David Martin writtificated
>
>> Apart from their cassette hub which is somewhat retrograde compared
>> to the Shimano one.
>
> Wot's a cassette hub?

A hub that takes a cassette.

It may be retrograde in theory in some ways. It's fine in practice, and one
advantage is that it's easier to service the pawls.

>> The campag stuff at the bottom end (Xenon/Mirage) is
>> fairly rough, though it looks nice. Better off with Tiagra/105
>
> Shimano 105 is priced to compete with Campagnolo Veloce. Tiagra sits
> bang in the middle of Xenon and Mirage.
>
> Where Campagnolo win out is having 10 speed throughtout the range.
> Shimano Sora and Tiagra are still 9 speed (I say still - Sora only
> moved up to 9 spd for '08).

All from Campag and Shimano is quite adequate these days. Choose the make
by which levers you prefer the feel of, then the group by how well stuffed
your wallet is.

~PB

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-03-22, Pete Biggs <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark T wrote:
>> David Martin writtificated
>>
>>> Apart from their cassette hub which is somewhat retrograde compared
>>> to the Shimano one.
>>
>> Wot's a cassette hub?
>
> A hub that takes a cassette.
>
> It may be retrograde in theory in some ways. It's fine in practice, and one
> advantage is that it's easier to service the pawls.

I assume by "retrograde" everyone's referring to the location of the
bearings, which is supposed to break axles. Shimano's patented design is
to put the bearings further apart supporting the axle better.

Axles don't break on Campag freehubs (they just make them thicker or
something), which isn't to say that Shimano's patented design isn't a
clever innovation. I'm sure it is, but interestingly their most
expensive Dura-Ace rear hubs are the same retrograde design as Campag
ones.

 

[blackhead]

On 20 Mar, 13:39, Colin MacDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 Mar, 13:07, blackhead <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking of perhaps buying a racer from the Revolution range by
> > Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op which are supposedly good value:
>
> EBC own-brand stuff is generally reasonable value, but you get what
> you pay for.  The Continental, for example, has pretty low-spec
> components but that's why it is £350.  If you're happy with that,
> Chain Reaction are doing last year's BeOne Briza 2.0 (no, I'm not on
> commission) for £250 and it has a more or less identical spec.  For
> £350 the Storm 3.0 has Sora kit rather than 2200 as well as carbon
> forks.
>
> Colin
I think I'll go for one of the following:


The Beone Storm 3.0 looks nice, but doesn't have pedals @ £350:

<http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14988>

The Viking Vittoria 53cm Race Bike Shimano 21 Speed STI looks great
value @ £341:

<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Viking-Vittoria-53cm-Shimano-Speed/dp/
B000TIW13M/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1206635334&sr=1-16>

The Claude Butler Milano is under special offer at my local bike shop
for £389

<http://www.bikes2udirect.com/B1720.html?id=KFnm5gVi>

Which would you go for?

 

[Pete Biggs]

blackhead wrote:

> The Beone Storm 3.0 looks nice, but doesn't have pedals @ £350:
>
> <http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14988>

Looks OK. The lack of pedals is not a bad thing as it means you can choose
your own.

> The Viking Vittoria 53cm Race Bike Shimano 21 Speed STI looks great
> value @ £341:
>
> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Viking-Vittoria-53cm-Shimano-Speed/dp/
> B000TIW13M/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1206635334&sr=1-16>

21 speed means it has 7-speed STIs and cassette - which is a bit old-tech
now. That would put me off.

> The Claude Butler Milano is under special offer at my local bike shop
> for £389
>
> <http://www.bikes2udirect.com/B1720.html?id=KFnm5gVi>

Buying from your LBS will be good as you can try for size and hopefully get
any service needed in future. This particular bike does have a double
chainset though, so you'd need to be confident that the bottom gear will be
low enough for you.

~PB