Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists



On Feb 29, 7:10 am, Bike guy Joe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
> > Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
> > discussed in less open societies.'

>
>  We'll need a lot of weed when riding a bicycle 25 miles one way to
> work or to the grocery.


The grocery shouldn't be that far. As for work, you may consider
moving --or changing jobs.

I look forward to go to the supermarket in my bicycle, barely one mile
away. Only place safe for me to ride it.

Hey, you may even consider a scooter to go to work!
 
"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Feb 29, 7:10 am, Bike guy Joe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
> > Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
> > discussed in less open societies.'

>
> We'll need a lot of weed when riding a bicycle 25 miles one way to
> work or to the grocery.


>The grocery shouldn't be that far. As for work, you may >consider
>moving --or changing jobs.


>I look forward to go to the supermarket in my bicycle, >barely one mile
>away. Only place safe for me to ride it.


>Hey, you may even consider a scooter to go to work!


I guess we'll all have to sell our farms and move into the city. That way we
will all be within 1 mile of the grocery store. That right, we won't need a
grocery store because we don't have any farms growing product to put in the
stores.......
 
On Feb 29, 11:22 pm, "David White" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 29, 7:10 am, Bike guy Joe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > 'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
> > > Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
> > > discussed in less open societies.'

>
> > We'll need a lot of weed when riding a bicycle 25 miles one way to
> > work or to the grocery.
> >The grocery shouldn't be that far. As for work, you may >consider
> >moving --or changing jobs.
> >I look forward to go to the supermarket in my bicycle, >barely one mile
> >away. Only place safe for me to ride it.
> >Hey, you may even consider a scooter to go to work!

>
> I guess we'll all have to sell our farms and move into the city. That way we
> will all be within 1 mile of the grocery store. That right, we won't need a
> grocery store because we don't have any farms growing product to put in the
> stores.......


What we really need is OPTIONS... It's such a wonderful word, even
more democratic than electing some president every 4 years, who, more
often than not, ignores most of his electoral promises.

In this case, it would mean a motorized vehicle for you, and a bicycle
for me. But it can even mean some bicycling for you and some motoring
for me. Also you must realize that most people who live in the
boondocks don't farm anything nor have any other need for it. It's
commonly known as the sprawl. It's a big problem in America as much as
the car monopoly.
 
On Feb 19, 9:52 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:


What a maroon.

The answer is to confiscate and destroy ALL vehicles with more than
three wheels that are used carry fewer than two adults.

Executions roadside upon capture for the repeat offenders.

Then we can start on getting the semi's crushed.

Then the trains can be eliminated.

It will all be solved when the only personal transportaion is horses,
motorcycles and horse drawn wagons for familys.

--
Keith S
Down with humans!
 
laughing man wrote:
>
> It will all be solved when the only personal transportaion is horses,
> motorcycles and horse drawn wagons for familys.


This is horse ****.

Literally. A society like this would be hip deep in the stuff. The US
population in 1900 was 76 million; it's over 4 times as high now, and much
more concentrated in the cities.

The peak US horse population was probably 21,500,000 in about 1915. If we
multiply this by 4, this would be 86,000,000 horses.

Each horse produces about 50 pounds of manure per day.
 
On Mar 1, 5:37 pm, "ZBicyclist" <[email protected]> wrote:
> laughing man wrote:
>
> > It will all be solved when the only personal transportaion is horses,
> > motorcycles and horse drawn wagons for familys.

>
> This is horse ****.
>
> Literally. A society like this would be hip deep in the stuff.  The US
> population in 1900 was 76 million; it's over 4 times as high now, and much
> more concentrated in the cities.
>
> The peak US horse population was probably 21,500,000 in about 1915. If we
> multiply this by 4, this would be 86,000,000 horses.
>
> Each horse produces about 50 pounds of manure per day.


I think he forgot the horseshit. But such Utopia already exists among
the Amish. Do we have to worship the same?
 
donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Mar 1, 5:37 pm, "ZBicyclist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>laughing man wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It will all be solved when the only personal transportaion is horses,
>>>motorcycles and horse drawn wagons for familys.

>>
>>This is horse ****.
>>
>>Literally. A society like this would be hip deep in the stuff. The US
>>population in 1900 was 76 million; it's over 4 times as high now, and much
>>more concentrated in the cities.
>>
>>The peak US horse population was probably 21,500,000 in about 1915. If we
>>multiply this by 4, this would be 86,000,000 horses.
>>
>>Each horse produces about 50 pounds of manure per day.

>
>
> I think he forgot the horseshit. But such Utopia already exists among
> the Amish. Do we have to worship the same?


As long as we have the same population density and agricultural economy
as the Amish, there'll be no problem.

I don't know how many people are going to be willing to accept that...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
 
On Mar 3, 11:58 pm, Nate Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:


> > I think he forgot the horseshit. But such Utopia already exists among
> > the Amish. Do we have to worship the same?

>
> As long as we have the same population density and agricultural economy
> as the Amish, there'll be no problem.
>
> I don't know how many people are going to be willing to accept that...
>
> nate


The ones that must die, most likely won't accept it. ;)

Holland though has a very high population density, and does great with
bikes. We can't say the same about cars when the competition for roads
and parking spaces becomes acute. High population density is good for
bikes. The wave of the future in an increasingly overcrowded world.

Netherlands Population density: 1,272 persons per sq mi
 
"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 27, 12:44 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> How old is that movie? I thought that the Dutch had given up
>> bicycle
>> master plans fourteen years ago. I didn't see any statistics
>> later
>> than 1990. I think that cycling stayed pretty flat during the
>> lifetime of the plan.
>>
>> Jeremy Parker
>> London UK

>
> The goals at the end of the film are set for 2010...
>
> I reproduce here an article on what it would take for North America
> (or the UK) to become bicycle friendly.


[snip]

Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of bike
routes - we call them "streets".

It doesn't surprise me that the Dutch would have a goal set way in
the future. Britain did exactly the same thing when its goal of
doubling cycling in five years, as with the Dutch plan, failed to
increase cycling at all. Britain introduced an even bigger goal, but
set far enough into the future for everyone, including me, to forget
the details. Still, we both did better than Denmark, where their
goal, to increase cycling by 30%, actually resulted in its going down
by 15%.

Britain actually has "bike friendly", by your standard, towns. The
nearest, Stevenage, is about 25 miles from me. No doubt you have
heard of it. We have a town, Cambridge, with more cycling than
Amsterdam. We have a town, London, which actually has managed to
double its cycling.

Its beginning to be slightly clearer what works and what doesn't,
which is why a book has come out recently "**** Cycle Lanes, 50 worst
cycle lanes in Britain". It's selling like hot lanes

Jeremy Parker
 
On Mar 4, 5:03 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Netherlands Population density: 1,272 persons per sq mi

It's flat but the wind can be wicked!
d.
 
On Mar 4, 5:23 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 27, 12:44 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> How old is that movie?  I thought that the Dutch had given up
> >> bicycle
> >> master plans fourteen years ago.  I didn't see any statistics
> >> later
> >> than 1990.  I think that cycling stayed pretty flat during the
> >> lifetime of the plan.

>
> >> Jeremy Parker
> >> London UK

>
> > The goals at the end of the film are set for 2010...

>
> > I reproduce here an article on what it would take for North America
> > (or the UK) to become bicycle friendly.

>
> [snip]
>
> Here in London UK it's bike friendly now.  We have 8500 miles of bike
> routes - we call them "streets".


But aren't you expose to the law of the jungle, like the article on
London states?

>
> It doesn't surprise me that the Dutch would have a goal set  way in
> the future.  Britain did exactly the same thing when its goal of
> doubling cycling in five years, as with the Dutch plan, failed to
> increase cycling at all.  Britain introduced an even bigger goal, but
> set far enough into the future for everyone, including me, to forget
> the details.  Still, we both did better than Denmark, where their
> goal, to increase cycling by 30%, actually resulted in its going down
> by 15%.


We too have great plans for the future. Why real good things only
happen in the future? Something for philosophers...

But I think the important thing is the total ridership. If America
double its ridership, it would go up to a whopping 0.8%!
>
> Britain actually has "bike friendly", by your standard, towns.  The
> nearest, Stevenage, is about 25 miles from me.  No doubt you have
> heard of it.  We have a town, Cambridge, with more cycling than
> Amsterdam.  We have a town, London, which actually has managed to
> double its cycling.


Here it's not friendly, but is not like they eat the cyclists alive
either. I don't think there's even intention to crush cyclists; it
just happens when drivers are on the phone or eating a burger.
>
> Its beginning to be slightly clearer what works and what doesn't,
> which is why a book has come out recently "**** Cycle Lanes, 50 worst
> cycle lanes in Britain".  It's selling like hot lanes
>
> Jeremy Parker- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


I'm gonna write my own book: "Worst Streets to Cycle in America." And
I just have to step out my door...
 
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:23:29 -0000, "Jeremy Parker"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Feb 27, 12:44 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> How old is that movie? I thought that the Dutch had given up
>>> bicycle
>>> master plans fourteen years ago. I didn't see any statistics
>>> later
>>> than 1990. I think that cycling stayed pretty flat during the
>>> lifetime of the plan.
>>>
>>> Jeremy Parker
>>> London UK

>>
>> The goals at the end of the film are set for 2010...
>>
>> I reproduce here an article on what it would take for North America
>> (or the UK) to become bicycle friendly.

>
>[snip]
>
>Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of bike
>routes - we call them "streets".
>
>It doesn't surprise me that the Dutch would have a goal set way in
>the future. Britain did exactly the same thing when its goal of
>doubling cycling in five years, as with the Dutch plan, failed to
>increase cycling at all. Britain introduced an even bigger goal, but
>set far enough into the future for everyone, including me, to forget
>the details. Still, we both did better than Denmark, where their
>goal, to increase cycling by 30%, actually resulted in its going down
>by 15%.
>
>Britain actually has "bike friendly", by your standard, towns. The
>nearest, Stevenage, is about 25 miles from me. No doubt you have
>heard of it. We have a town, Cambridge, with more cycling than
>Amsterdam. We have a town, London, which actually has managed to
>double its cycling.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/feb/04/travelandtransport.carbonemissions

How much will it cost?

The charge will be £100-200 per day, from midnight to midnight, seven
days a week, every day of the year. Penalties for non-payment start at
£500-£1,000.

and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jan/31/london.london

"The London mayor Ken Livingstone said today he hoped to approve plans
for a £25-a-day congestion charge on the highest-polluting vehicles
coming into the capital within a month."

>
>Its beginning to be slightly clearer what works and what doesn't,
>which is why a book has come out recently "**** Cycle Lanes, 50 worst
>cycle lanes in Britain". It's selling like hot lanes


"Forget taking your cars over, London is not really a good
place for cars. Parking is expensive, the traffic is quite bad in the
city and you have to pay a congestion charge to go into central
London.

Also fuel is expensive in the UK compared to the US, approximately 5
pounds a gallon (UK gallon is slightly more than US gallon). You would
also have to pay UK road tax and insurance which would probably put
another 1000 pounds onto the annual running costs of your car."


--
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"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote

[snip]

> Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of
> bike
> routes - we call them "streets".


But aren't you expose to the law of the jungle, like the article on
London states?

[snip]

Er, what article? Large numbers of articles, and books too, about
London get written, of varying degrees of sense.

I suppose you could try to operate by the law of the jungle, but
generally in Britain it's considered better to operate in a civilized
manner. Following the rules is especially important if you are the
most vulnerable vehicle on the road. We have a book here, John
Franklin's "Cyclecraft", to tell you how to do it. Besides, if you
break the rules, you might get a ticket. The risk's low, I grant
you, but occasionally they do have a crackdown.

The laws in Britain are much the same as the laws anywhere else,
except that there's no nonsense about having to use bike facilities.
A "mandatory" bike lane is mandatory for cars to stay out, not
mandatory for you to stay in. Do remember, though, that we drive on
the left.

If it's any comfort to you, cycling in Britain is safer than walking.

Jeremy Parker
 
The good old boys in Virginia's Northern Neck love bicycles. It's a
favorite sport. You get in the back of a 'pighup' with some buddies, a case
of beer and a long pole and go looking for them. They call it 'jousting'.
 
On Mar 5, 12:48 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> [snip]
>
> > Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of
> > bike
> > routes - we call them "streets".

>
> But aren't you expose to the law of the jungle, like the article on
> London states?
>
> [snip]
>
> Er, what article?  Large numbers of articles, and books too, about
> London get written, of varying degrees of sense.


See below.

>
> I suppose you could try to operate by the law of the jungle, but
> generally in Britain it's considered better to operate in a civilized
> manner.  Following the rules is especially important if you are the
> most vulnerable vehicle on the road.  We have a book here, John
> Franklin's "Cyclecraft", to tell you how to do it.  Besides, if you
> break the rules, you might get a ticket.  The risk's low, I grant
> you, but occasionally they do have a crackdown.


The UK has one of the best road safety records. Still few cyclists
seem to be comfortable among the big predators (not because they are
bad, but because they are big).

>
> The laws in Britain are much the same as the laws anywhere else,
> except that there's no nonsense about having to use bike facilities.
> A "mandatory" bike lane is mandatory for cars to stay out, not
> mandatory for you to stay in.  Do remember, though, that we drive on
> the left.


I agree with that concept: no mandatory bike lanes, but bike lanes in
places where it would increase ridership.
>
> If it's any comfort to you, cycling in Britain is safer than walking.
>
> Jeremy Parker


I'm glad it works for you, but ridership seems to be ridiculously low
in the UK. This article states its dangers...


Cyclists are Victims of the Law of the Jungle

And in reference to the above article about London, this reader states
that cyclists should not have equal rights as automobiles, but
actually MORE rights.

Again, before there's war, it's better to separate.

Velorution in the mind The Financial Times has a worthy but dull
article on the resurgence of urban cycling in the UK, with a focus on
London. It cannot escape from the cliche' of the number of people
riding through red lights; it is like if every article about digital
photography mentioned people taking illegal pictures at museums. Of
course figures of injuries caused by riding through red lights are
never offered.

The torpor in the journalist's mind is evident in the last few
paragraphs:

There's no doubt that car drivers need to clean up their act. Taking
speed limits down to 20mph in built-up areas will make the roads safer
for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike. Enforcing the ban on
mobile phone use will help drivers become more attentive. And applying
the Highway Code more strictly will make many people think twice about
engaging in the current bully-boy hierarchy of bigger is better.
...

Now, saying that motor vehicles should have the same rights as
pedestrians or cyclists is like saying that water skiers should be
allowed on all waters in front of a popular beach. The Highway Code by
instigating this non-sensical equality status, that inevitably leads
to the law of the jungle, is bunk. It has the same moral standing as
the South African Pbutt Law.

It is not abiding to rules that we should exhort, but consideration to
all other people and especially to those who are more vulnerable than
ourselves. Yes there are definitely inconsiderate bicycle riders in
London, and it is absolutely no excuse to say, 'It is a jungle out
there, I need to defend my self'. We need to raise the level of social
responsibility, starting by ourselves. The roads are a commons to be
enjoyed by everyone, starting by people on foot. Then the greater or
more dangerous the vehicle one chooses to use, the fewer rights one
has and the more consideration one needs to give to more vulnerable
people.

(http://www.ugroups.com/driver/Cyclists-are-Victims-of-the-Law-of-the-
Jungle-4890.html)
 
"ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4f6f2f0d-ae67-40ba-a6c2-6acc99eda662@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 5, 12:48 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> [snip]
>
> > Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of
> > bike
> > routes - we call them "streets".

>
> But aren't you expose to the law of the jungle, like the article on
> London states?
>
> [snip]
>
> Er, what article? Large numbers of articles, and books too, about
> London get written, of varying degrees of sense.


See below.
-------------------------
OK, article noted. That article is one of the less sensible ones, to
my mind. Perhaps it was planted by some disgruntled motorist hoping
to scare a few of the more suggestable cyclists off the road It
makes sense to do one's scaring on the internet - there's less chance
of encountering a policeman than if you actually tried to use a car
to do it
------------------------
>>The UK has one of the best road safety records. Still few cyclists

seem to be comfortable among the big predators (not because they are
bad, but because they are big).<<
------------------------
They must be reasonably comfortable, or they wouldn't be cyclists.
Hundreds of thousands of people cycle the streets of London every
day. There are enough different ways of getting round London that
nobody has to cycle in London if they don' t want to. The best
reason for riding a bike in London is because it's fun
-----------------------
[snip]
>>I agree with that concept: no mandatory bike lanes, but bike lanes
>>in

places where it would increase ridership.<<
---------------------
Well, a third of a century of building the things have pretty much
proven that there's no such place. It's time to stop building them,
and then spend an equal amount of effort to remove the things that
haven't worked
----------------------
>
> If it's any comfort to you, cycling in Britain is safer than
> walking.
>
> Jeremy Parker


I'm glad it works for you, but ridership seems to be ridiculously low
in the UK. This article states its dangers.
---------------------------
Actually, when you look at the article
(http://www.ugroups.com/driver/Cyclists-are-Victims-of-the-Law-of-the-Jungle-4890.html)
it doesn't mention any dangers at all.

You don't say what you mean by "ridership seems (to you) to be
ridiculously low" Thus it says more about you, and not to your
credit, than it does about cycling. Ridership in Cambridge is higher
than Amsterdam. Is that "ridiculously low?

Jeremy Parker
 
On Mar 8, 2:16 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:4f6f2f0d-ae67-40ba-a6c2-6acc99eda662@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 5, 12:48 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> > [snip]

>
> > > Here in London UK it's bike friendly now. We have 8500 miles of
> > > bike
> > > routes - we call them "streets".

>
> > But aren't you expose to the law of the jungle, like the article on
> > London states?

>
> > [snip]

>
> > Er, what article? Large numbers of articles, and books too, about
> > London get written, of varying degrees of sense.

>
> See below.
> -------------------------
> OK, article noted.  That article is one of the less sensible ones, to
> my mind.  Perhaps it was planted by some disgruntled motorist hoping
> to scare a few of the more suggestable cyclists off the road  It
> makes sense to do one's scaring on the internet - there's less chance
> of encountering a policeman than if you actually tried to use a car
> to do it


That would have been very deceitful, but the article is genuinely
suggesting lower speed limits to 20MPH, which should be a pre-
requisite for safe biking.

Perhaps *you* are the disgruntled motorist. Just kidding. ;)

> ------------------------>>The UK has one of the best road safety records. Still few cyclists
>
> seem to be comfortable among the big predators (not because they are
> bad, but because they are big).<<
> ------------------------
> They must be reasonably comfortable, or they wouldn't be cyclists.
> Hundreds of thousands of people cycle the streets of London every
> day.  There are enough different ways of getting round London that
> nobody has to cycle in London if they don' t want to.  The best
> reason for riding a bike in London is because it's fun


London is leading in eliminating traffic congestion in the city. Good
for you.

> -----------------------
> [snip]>>I agree with that concept: no mandatory bike lanes, but bike lanes
> >>in

>
> places where it would increase ridership.<<
> ---------------------
> Well, a third of a century of building the things have pretty much
> proven that there's no such place.  It's time to stop building them,
> and then spend an equal amount of effort to remove the things that
> haven't worked
> ----------------------


Lanes would certainly bring a lot of people out, but I can live
without them if other arrangements are made, particularly lowering the
speed limit and placing speed cameras all over the place.
>
>
>
> > If it's any comfort to you, cycling in Britain is safer than
> > walking.

>
> > Jeremy Parker

>
> I'm glad it works for you, but ridership seems to be ridiculously low
> in the UK. This article states its dangers.
> ---------------------------
> Actually, when you look at the article
> (http://www.ugroups.com/driver/Cyclists-are-Victims-of-the-Law-of-the-...)
> it doesn't mention any dangers at all.
>
> You don't say what you mean by "ridership seems (to you) to be
> ridiculously low"  Thus it says more about you, and not to your
> credit, than it does about cycling.  Ridership in Cambridge is higher
> than Amsterdam.  Is that "ridiculously low?
>
> Jeremy Parker


Cambridge is not London, nor it's the UK. My number for the UK is
4%... compared to a 30% for the Netherlands.