Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists



On Feb 24, 9:55 pm, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <3359f458-6f3c-4046-b46c-e417d93f6...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>         donquijote1954 <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >> If you could make spike belts shoot out
> >> of your wrists like Spiderman, than would
> >> be something.
>
> >> Watch out for The Green Hornet (& Kato.)
> >> He /is/ a road terrorist.  And I have my
> >> suspicions about The Punisher and
> >> Fat Freddie's cat.
>
> >> Thank goodness we have anti-road-terrorist
> >> guys like you to defend us good people.
> > Short of calling Superman or Batman, we can catch the bad guys in SUVs
> > by sticking together.
>
> What do we do with them once we catch them?

We make them display a bumper stiket that says "HYPROCRITE ON BOARD,"
and release them.
>
> > Same strategy developed by the sardines 300
> > million years ago.
>
> ... mmmm ... sardines, lightly smoked & soaked in
> olive oil.  I'm rather partial to sardines.
> And herrings.  And oolichans.

Sharks can be cooked too. They have some recipes in Iraq.
>
> > Bicycles can get together and ride the lane, just
> > like any other vehicle. Similar to Critical Mass but without
> > antagonizing the motorists who in the end are also trapped in the
> > cages. And also, unlike Critical Mass, we would ride the road every
> > day for real transportation.
>
> That goes on every day where I live.  Where lotsa people live.
>
> As for Critical Mass, that is as real transportation as any
> other raison d'etre for transportation.  Nobody has to justify
> /why/ they're mobile.  But people should take more responsibility
> of /how/ they're (we're) mobile.

Critical Mass has a PR issue. We need something for the average Joe
Banana to be alive at the end of his bicycle ride.

>
> > This T-shirt can fit the bill (I've renounced to any profit on it)...
> >http://www.cafepress.com/burncalories
>
> Screw glib t-shirt messages & bumper stickers.

Hey, there are T-shirts for every taste, even hypocrites...

http://www.zazzle.com/hypocrites_bumpersticker-128838404027779618
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <alangbaker-EC9E04.16563223022008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Alan Baker <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> As for choking the life out of the city:
>>
>> 1. Vancouver has ignored the car for years;
>
>Heh. Enjoy dealing w/ your City parking meters
>(which suffice as my bike racks.)

Most places it's illegal to lock a bike to a parking meter. Think
you'll like those meters as much when the parking people cut your bike
off it?

--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>To every pay-off there's a proportional trade-off;
>>>that of personal motor cars comes at a pretty
>>>steep price.
>>
>> However steep the price is, it's an enormous net positive.
>
>Not to the plethora of people who've been hit and
>even killed by cars.

Yawn... don't your arms get tired from waving that bloody shirt around
so much?

>>>Personal liberty & quality
>>>of life, my ass! In Vancouver, streams of car
>>>traffic choke the life out of the city by
>>>preventing people from getting from A to B.
>>
>> I've been to Vancouver. Pretty damn big city in terms of area; getting
>> around the whole thing without a car would be rather painful. I
>> walked around some of the central area, and didn't notice any cars
>> choking the life out of me; maybe they extend some courtesy to
>> visitors.
>
>Vancouver Proper is only 7km x 6km

********. If it were only 7km x 6km, it would have an area of 42
km^2. It actually has an area of 114 km^2. (source:
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/aboutvan.htm )

>That's why Critical Mass exists.

Critical Mass exists to "prove" to drivers that bicyclists should be
banned from the streets entirely.

--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

>>That's why Critical Mass exists.
>
> Critical Mass exists to "prove" to drivers that bicyclists should be
> banned from the streets entirely.

Critical mass exists so people can be assholes to each other. So many
drivers are assholes to lone bicyclists that some bicyclists wanted
revenge so they got together and decided to be assholes to motorists.

If critical mass was true to their cause they would ride to the letter of
the vehicle code in large groups. However they don't do that at all but
rather run red signals and do other such nonsense.
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David White wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> David White wrote:
>>>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> David White wrote:
>>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, if we could keep the cagers off the road, it would be safe
>>>>>>>>>>> to ride anywhere on a bicycle with studded tires.
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and if your legs are the size of tree trunks, maybe you'll
>>>>>>>>>> actually cover 15 miles in a day riding through slush and ice on
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> studded tires.
>>>>>>>>> It sounds like the exercise would do a lot of people good.
>>>>>>>> Contrary to the beliefs of certain trainers, there's a difference
>>>>>>>> between exercise and self-torture. Riding a bike in the cold
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> ice and slush falls into the latter category.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Riding a bicycle in winter is fun, except for the out of control
>>>>>>> cagers on the road. Studded tires, proper clothes and proper
>>>>>>> attitude are all that are needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides, there is something fundamentally wrong with people who do
>>>>>>>>> not like riding a bicycle.
>>>>>>>> There's something fundamentally wrong with people who don't like
>>>>>>>> driving.
>>>>>>> Most USians must not like driving too much, since they buy large,
>>>>>>> ill handling vehicles, and then focus more on their phone
>>>>>>> conversations than driving. People who actually like driving would
>>>>>>> benefit by getting all these cagers off the road.
>>>>>> Isn't that quite the generalization.
>>>>> Well, I have plenty of chances to observe what and how people drive.
>>>>> The reason most people like personal vehicles is because it surrounds
>>>>> them with a steel and glass isolation cage.
>>>> Observing and interacting are two completely different things. Have you
>>>> stopped and questioned these people as to why they choose to be
>>>> cagers?? Or, are you just injecting a little personal bias in your
>>>> comments??
>>> They are certainly not enthusiastic about driving if they choose ill
>>> handling vehicles and approach every corner with apparent fear (as
>>> indicated by their slow speed).
>>
>> So, you haven't asked.
>
> Behavior is more revealing than opinion.

No, you telling us what you think the reason is that all these people drive
is opinion. Getting it straight from the horse's mouth is something
completely different. Go ask some of them and then report back to the class
what yo found.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Brent P wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>
>>> That's why Critical Mass exists.
>> Critical Mass exists to "prove" to drivers that bicyclists should be
>> banned from the streets entirely.
>
> Critical mass exists so people can be assholes to each other. So many
> drivers are assholes to lone bicyclists that some bicyclists wanted
> revenge so they got together and decided to be assholes to motorists.
>
> If critical mass was true to their cause they would ride to the letter of
> the vehicle code in large groups. However they don't do that at all but
> rather run red signals and do other such nonsense.
>
Or go onto the Ike at rush hour?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
David White wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> David White wrote:
>>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> David White wrote:
>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> David White wrote:
>>>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, if we could keep the cagers off the road, it would be safe
>>>>>>>>>>>> to ride anywhere on a bicycle with studded tires.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and if your legs are the size of tree trunks, maybe you'll
>>>>>>>>>>> actually cover 15 miles in a day riding through slush and ice on
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> studded tires.
>>>>>>>>>> It sounds like the exercise would do a lot of people good.
>>>>>>>>> Contrary to the beliefs of certain trainers, there's a difference
>>>>>>>>> between exercise and self-torture. Riding a bike in the cold
>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>> ice and slush falls into the latter category.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Riding a bicycle in winter is fun, except for the out of control
>>>>>>>> cagers on the road. Studded tires, proper clothes and proper
>>>>>>>> attitude are all that are needed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Besides, there is something fundamentally wrong with people who do
>>>>>>>>>> not like riding a bicycle.
>>>>>>>>> There's something fundamentally wrong with people who don't like
>>>>>>>>> driving.
>>>>>>>> Most USians must not like driving too much, since they buy large,
>>>>>>>> ill handling vehicles, and then focus more on their phone
>>>>>>>> conversations than driving. People who actually like driving would
>>>>>>>> benefit by getting all these cagers off the road.
>>>>>>> Isn't that quite the generalization.
>>>>>> Well, I have plenty of chances to observe what and how people drive.
>>>>>> The reason most people like personal vehicles is because it surrounds
>>>>>> them with a steel and glass isolation cage.
>>>>> Observing and interacting are two completely different things. Have you
>>>>> stopped and questioned these people as to why they choose to be
>>>>> cagers?? Or, are you just injecting a little personal bias in your
>>>>> comments??
>>>> They are certainly not enthusiastic about driving if they choose ill
>>>> handling vehicles and approach every corner with apparent fear (as
>>>> indicated by their slow speed).
>>> So, you haven't asked.
>> Behavior is more revealing than opinion.
>
> No, you telling us what you think the reason is that all these people drive
> is opinion. Getting it straight from the horse's mouth is something
> completely different. Go ask some of them and then report back to the class
> what yo found.

No, behavior is truthful. Speech is often not.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]> wrote:
>>In article <alangbaker-EC9E04.16563223022008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>> Alan Baker <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> As for choking the life out of the city:
>>>
>>> 1. Vancouver has ignored the car for years;
>>
>>Heh. Enjoy dealing w/ your City parking meters
>>(which suffice as my bike racks.)
>
> Most places it's illegal to lock a bike to a parking meter. Think
> you'll like those meters as much when the parking people cut your bike
> off it?

They won't in Vancouver, because here it's not illegal to lock
a bike to a parking meter. Parking meters are my private li'l
bike racks. Their uprights are in fact designed to accommodate
bike locks. I enjoy our parking meters very much because
they're pretty much H-bomb-proof. They're almost
street-crook-proof.

Much of the City's parking enforcement issues parking tickets
to cars on expired meters, while riding bicycles :p


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
It's no secret that the motive of this revolution is "the Law of the
Jungle," which appropriately was born out of the discrimination
against bicycles... Well, this article reflects that reality, not in
the jungle per se, but in an otherwise civilized place (the driving
laws are first worldly) where cyclist too are at the bottom of the
food chain. VELORUTION!

***

And in reference to the above article about London, this reader states
that cyclists should not have equal rights as automobiles, but
actually MORE rights.

Again, before there's war, it's better to separate.

Velorution in the mind The Financial Times has a worthy but dull
article on the resurgence of urban cycling in the UK, with a focus on
London. It cannot escape from the cliche' of the number of people
riding through red lights; it is like if every article about digital
photography mentioned people taking illegal pictures at museums. Of
course figures of injuries caused by riding through red lights are
never offered.

The torpor in the journalist's mind is evident in the last few
paragraphs:

There's no doubt that car drivers need to clean up their act. Taking
speed limits down to 20mph in built-up areas will make the roads safer
for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike. Enforcing the ban on
mobile phone use will help drivers become more attentive. And applying
the Highway Code more strictly will make many people think twice about
engaging in the current bully-boy hierarchy of bigger is better.

....

Now, saying that motor vehicles should have the same rights as
pedestrians or cyclists is like saying that water skiers should be
allowed on all waters in front of a popular beach. The Highway Code by
instigating this non-sensical equality status, that inevitably leads
to the law of the jungle, is bunk. It has the same moral standing as
the South African Pbutt Law.

It is not abiding to rules that we should exhort, but consideration to
all other people and especially to those who are more vulnerable than
ourselves. Yes there are definitely inconsiderate bicycle riders in
London, and it is absolutely no excuse to say, 'It is a jungle out
there, I need to defend my self'. We need to raise the level of social
responsibility, starting by ourselves. The roads are a commons to be
enjoyed by everyone, starting by people on foot. Then the greater or
more dangerous the vehicle one chooses to use, the fewer rights one
has and the more consideration one needs to give to more vulnerable
people.

http://www.ugroups.com/driver/Cyclists-are-Victims-of-the-Law-of-the-Jungle-4890.html
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>They won't in Vancouver, because here it's not illegal to lock
>a bike to a parking meter. Parking meters are my private li'l
>bike racks. Their uprights are in fact designed to accommodate
>bike locks. I enjoy our parking meters very much because
>they're pretty much H-bomb-proof. They're almost
>street-crook-proof.

Standard practice in Philly is to behead the meter; presumably they
then work on them in private to get the money out. Perhaps I'll try
to get a few thieves to move up your way; they can behead the meter
and get a free bike out of the deal.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
On Feb 26, 2:11 pm, [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
>
> Standard practice in Philly is to behead the meter; presumably they
> then work on them in private to get the money out.  Perhaps I'll try
> to get a few thieves to move up your way; they can behead the meter
> and get a free bike out of the deal.

What you have there is failure to communicate. There's not a whole lot
of money in a parking meter at any one time - time, as the coin vault
is about 300ml in volume.

It's a moot point here (Toronto) as the individual meters have been
replaced by "Super Meters" - a few per block - that take credit/debit
cards as well as coins. Can't lock to them without a cable, either.
 
On Feb 26, 4:15 pm, Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 2:11 pm, [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Standard practice in Philly is to behead the meter; presumably they
> > then work on them in private to get the money out.  Perhaps I'll try
> > to get a few thieves to move up your way; they can behead the meter
> > and get a free bike out of the deal.
>
> What you have there is failure to communicate. There's not a whole lot
> of money in a parking meter at any one time - time, as the coin vault
> is about 300ml in volume.
>
> It's a moot point here (Toronto) as the individual meters have been
> replaced by "Super Meters" - a few per block - that take credit/debit
> cards as well as coins. Can't lock to them without a cable, either.

Same here in Florida. Solar powered technology.

So I guess they make the point that America is not that backward when
it comes to new technologies. At least when it comes to making
money. ;)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 2:11=A0pm, [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto)
>wrote:
>>
>> Standard practice in Philly is to behead the meter; presumably they
>> then work on them in private to get the money out. =A0Perhaps I'll try
>> to get a few thieves to move up your way; they can behead the meter
>> and get a free bike out of the deal.
>
>What you have there is failure to communicate. There's not a whole lot
>of money in a parking meter at any one time - time, as the coin vault
>is about 300ml in volume.

Hey, I didn't say they were the brightest crooks around.


--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
On Feb 27, 7:54 am, Eric Vey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >> You mean when cyclist continually run red lights and ignore most of
> >> the traffic laws. That leads to accidents with drivers trying to
> >> avoid law breaking bicycle riders. Of course the death rate for
> >> bicycle riders is also very high.
>
> > Nonsense. Now Jack May is just making things up.
>
> I was thinking about it and I have never seen a bicyclist blow through a
> red light. I've been driving for almost 40 years, so the opportunity
> certainly should have presented itself by now.

OK, let's assume the revolution (by and for cyclists) gets voted into
office (or gains rights by other means), WHAT WOULD THE ROAD BE LIKE
FOR CYCLISTS?

Like the article VELORUTION says, not all vehicles are equal... The
smaller, the more protection they need; the bigger, the more
responsibility. On urban multi-lane roads, the right lane has a set
speed of 20mph, monitored by speed cameras. Bikes ride the lane. Do
they get tickets for running red lights? Nah, they hurt no one but
themselves.

In other words, predators will be in the cage, and prey will be free
once again.
 
While America doesn't have an energy policy other than invading oil-
rich countries, Holland exhibits a Master Plan for bicycles, which is
sure to help the environment and the health of its inhabitants. We
propose a "Dutch Package" though that includes bicycles and other
issues (like marihuana) peculiar to the Dutch (Unpaid Political
Advertisement)...

(get some popcorn --and perhaps weed-- for the ride)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QExnRr9VAJw

'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
discussed in less open societies.'

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
 
How old is that movie? I thought that the Dutch had given up bicycle
master plans fourteen years ago. I didn't see any statistics later
than 1990. I think that cycling stayed pretty flat during the
lifetime of the plan.

Jeremy Parker
London UK

--------------------------
"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a07280d0-3c83-49e5-80d8-fa96209ab184@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> While America doesn't have an energy policy other than invading
> oil-
> rich countries, Holland exhibits a Master Plan for bicycles, which
> is
> sure to help the environment and the health of its inhabitants. We
> propose a "Dutch Package" though that includes bicycles and other
> issues (like marihuana) peculiar to the Dutch (Unpaid Political
> Advertisement)...
>
> (get some popcorn --and perhaps weed-- for the ride)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QExnRr9VAJw
>
> 'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
> Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana--
> are
> discussed in less open societies.'
>
> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
> http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
 
> 'Actually, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
> Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
> discussed in less open societies.'

We'll need a lot of weed when riding a bicycle 25 miles one way to
work or to the grocery.
 
On Feb 27, 12:44 pm, "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> How old is that movie? I thought that the Dutch had given up bicycle
> master plans fourteen years ago. I didn't see any statistics later
> than 1990. I think that cycling stayed pretty flat during the
> lifetime of the plan.
>
> Jeremy Parker
> London UK

The goals at the end of the film are set for 2010...

I reproduce here an article on what it would take for North America
(or the UK) to become bicycle friendly. Short of a major overhaul of
our roads (which would take nothing less than a revolution) I propose
that cars are subject to a 20mph limit on the right (left) lane --
enforced by speed cameras. But that would take another revolution in
priorities, wouldn't it?

What "Bike Friendly" Looks Like (Bicycle Neglect #4)
Posted by Alan Durning on 05/17/2007 at 06:30 PM
What if cities had no sidewalks and everyone walked on the road? Or,
for urban recreation, they walked on a few scenic trails? What if the
occasional street had a three-foot-wide "walking lane" painted on the
asphalt, between the moving cars and the parked ones?

Well, for starters, no one would walk much. A hardy few might brave
the streets, but most would stop at "walk?! in traffic?!"

Fortunately, this car-head vision is fiction for pedestrians in most
of Cascadia, but it's not far from nonfiction for bicyclists. Regular
bikers are those too brave or foolish to be dissuaded by the prospect
of playing chicken with two-ton behemoths. Other, less-ardent cyclists
stick to bike paths; they ride for exercise, not transportation. Bike
lanes, in communities where they exist, are simply painted beside the
horsepower lanes.

Cascadians react reasonably: "bike?! in traffic?!" And they don't.
"It's not safe" is what the overwhelming majority of northwesterners
say when asked why they bike so little. (As it turns out, it's safer
than most assume--on which, more another day.)

So what would Cascadia's cities look like if we provided the
infrastructure for safe cycling? What does "bike friendly" actually
look like?

Good bicycling infrastructure is something few on this continent have
seen. It doesn't mean a "bike route" sign and a white stripe along the
arterial. It doesn't mean a meandering trail shared with joggers,
strollers, and skaters.

Bike friendly means a complete, continuous, interconnected network of
named bicycle roads or "tracks," each marked and lit, each governed by
traffic signs and signals of its own. It means a parallel network
interlaced with the other urban grids: the transit grid on road or
rail; the street grid for cars, trucks, and taxis; and the sidewalk
grid for pedestrians. It means separation from those grids: to be
useful for everyone from eight year olds to eighty year olds, bikeways
on large roads must be physically curbed, fenced, or graded away from
both traffic and walkers. (On smaller, neighborhood streets, where
bikes and cars do mingle, bike friendly means calming traffic with
speed humps, circles, and curb bubbles.)

Picture a street more than half of which is reserved for people on
foot, bikes, buses, or rail; on which traffic signals and signs,
street design, and landscaping all conspire to treat bicycles as the
equals of automobiles. This is what bike friendly--what Bicycle Respect--
looks like.

Such "complete streets" are common in Denmark, the Netherlands, and
other northern European countries. This photo is from Copenhagen,
which has more than 200 miles of "bicycle tracks" and another 40 miles
planned or under construction. (Photo courtesy of Jayson Antonoff,
International Sustainable Solutions. See more photos here.) These
tracks, which are typically above street grade and below sidewalk
grade, can move six times more people per meter of lane width than
motorized lanes of Copenhagen traffic. That's right: because cyclists
can travel close together, bike tracks have higher traffic
"throughput" than do car lanes. Copenhagen has even synchronized its
traffic signals--for bikers. An average-speed bike commuter going
downtown will rarely see a red light.

more (pictures and comments)...
http://www.sightline.org/daily_scor...ike-friendly201d-looks-like-bicycle-neglect-4
 
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