Rebuilding a Raleigh Supercourse?

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for me, but
the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for a new Trek?

Depends how old it is and how attached you are. Raleigh used its own threading for a long time
but transitioned out in the late 60s-early 70s. You might try Sheldon Brown's pages for more
info. PhilBrown

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

If it was me I would rebuild it with Campy Chorus while trying to maintain as much of the original
look as possible.

Or, you can buy a new Trek and give the bike to me so that I can rebuild it with Campy Chorus while
trying to maintain as much of the original look as possible.

JP

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

It's reasonable, and fun. Current frames are somewhat differently dimensioned - you may find them
less comfortable, as I do.

Two examples of older Raleighs that were restored:

sheldonbrown.orgraleigh baylisOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.orgraleigh competitionOpen ↗

good luck!

Nice machine. A buddy of mine still has one from the 1970s and loves to ride it now and then. I'm
still regularly using my Austro-Daimler Ultima frame and fork, also Reynolds. You can of course do a
period restoration or, spread the rear to 130mm and do a "modern" upgrade. I've been using 8sp.
Campy on the AD for several years. The Ergo, as opposed to Shimano, helps to keep its period style
as it was a Super Record equiped machine when new in 1978.

Enjoy yours either way.

"Erik Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

It's reasonable, and fun. Current frames are somewhat differently dimensioned - you may find them
less comfortable, as I do.

Two examples of older Raleighs that were restored:

sheldonbrown.orgraleigh baylisOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.orgraleigh competitionOpen ↗

good luck!

"Nartker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

As appealing as it might be, it's not cost effective to retrofit. Do it only if you don't care about
the money.

A shy person said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

Nartker @ AOL.com

If it's comfortable (and they tended to be) there's no great reason to replace it. You should
give careful thought to what components you replace, though...nothing will make it
significantly "faster."

These were made before "proportional sizing" was common on mass-produced bikes. All sizes had 22
inch top tubes.

If you ride a medium-ish size (21 1/2" or 23 1/2"😉 the proportions are fairly normal.

If yours is a 25 1/2, it will have an unusually short top tube for such a tall bike. This is good
for folks like me, with long legs and short torsoes.

If yours is a 19 1/2, it will have a longer than usual top tube for that size, good for short-
legged, long-torsed folks.

If your on one of these extremes, you'll find it very hard to find a modern bike that will be as
comfortable without going custom.

You might enjoy my Retro Raleighs site:

retroraleighs.comretroraleighs.comOpen ↗

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown +----------------------------------------------+
| Music expresses that which cannot be said | and on which it is impossible to be silent. | --
| Victor Hugo |
+----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

(JP) said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message news:<20040211065034.13536.00001429@mb-
m24.aol.com>...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for me,
but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for a new
Trek?

Quoted message said:

If it was me I would rebuild it with Campy Chorus while trying to maintain as much of the
original look as possible.

chorus is overkill for a bike with 531 plain gauge tubing, only in the main tubes. This is a bike
with a chunkey 7.5 lbs frame, it doesn't warrant a $1500 campy build kit. If you are going to build
a bike with Campy Chorus, get a 531 db throughout frame, there were 4 raleighs made with this
frameset (team, pro, international, competition) and they are readily obtainable for ~ $100 on ebay.

At that point, if you want to built it up with a 1970's type of component system, you want to cold-
set the rear wheel to almost 130 mm, and then use campy centaur parts, which are probably closest in
finish and functionality (with indexing), at a reasonable weight and price, to nuovo record (the
1970's parts). Centaur is what's on the present-day raleigh international, which is 2 steps up from
the raleigh supercourse.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

[email hidden] (Phil Brown) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

Depends how old it is and how attached you are. Raleigh used its own threading for a long time but
transitioned out in the late 60s-early 70s. You might try Sheldon Brown's pages for more info.
PhilBrown

The Super Course was built in the Carlton factory and not at the Nottingham factory, hence it uses
standard British thread dimensions rather than the Raleigh 26 tpi. The Super Course is a nice frame
with adequate clearance for fenders.

Sure it's reasonable to retrofit the frame with modern components, but it may not be cost
effective vs. buying a new bike, depending on how many components you have already on hand to use
for the retrofit.

Wheels were originally 27 inch, which isn't really too much of a problem as decent tires are
available (although the best ever IMHO Avocet slick tires are no longer made in 27 inch), or
you might be able to use 700c's if the brake reach is adequate. You would have to try 700c
wheels to find out.

Consider what the frame dimensions are of the Raleigh vs. new bikes you're looking at, and whether
the Raleigh or new bikes fits you better. Personally I prefer upgrading a quality old bike rather
than buying new just because I prefer the older style, but from a monetary standpoint a new bike
often wins out.

Bill Putnam, currently rebuilding an old Fuji touring bike for use as a commuter

(Nartker) said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for me, but
the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for a new Trek?

From a strictly monetary point of view, it's not worth it to pay somebody to do it. You _might_ save
money (vs. buying a new bike) by doing it yourself, if you buy parts very cheaply (ebay, mail order,
shop for everything, etc).

If you're just interested in riding, buy a new bike.

If you're interested in the project, rebuild it yourself.

If you've got an emotional attachment to the old bike, rebuild it or get it rebuilt.
--
Rick Onanian

Do both? If the Raleigh is a comfortable ride, keep it! I once had my 71 Pro outfitted with
Athena/Chorus, 9 spd, etc. (Parts were stripped off when I got an IF; Raleigh still running w/105
8-spd.) Even if you get the new Trek, you'll surely find lots of reasons to ride the Raleigh!

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in news:20040211065034.13536.00001429 @mb-m24.aol.com:

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

Nartker said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
a new Trek?

Reasonable men differ.

Recently we exchanged the frame of a Supercorse (which had many years of daily use and regular
maintenance) over to a different classic Raleigh frame. The owner noted, as you do, the ride comfort
and also the ability to run both wide tires and mudguards (which is becoming a rare combination on
new bikes).

yellowjersey.orgsky531aw.jpgOpen ↗

For this transplant, we added slotted cable guides. He also asked for a brazed on gear cable pulley,
noting that the rust on the previous finish was all centered on the steel clamps. (Yes, the front
mudguard did get mounted properly)

So you need to think about what is important to you first and proceed from there. It isn't all that
expensive to add more modern equipment to a frame that fits and handles the way you like.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for me,
but the components are way outdated. Is it

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for a new Trek?

Nartker @ AOL.com

Nartker

another fashion victim. (not worn or broken, just "not what all the other posers at
Starducks have."😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds

Frame. It is a very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comfortable frame for me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or
should I shop for a new Trek?

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Phil Brown) wrote in message news:<20040211105305.20558.00001403@mb-
m21.aol.com>...

Quoted message said:

Depends how old it is and how attached you are. Raleigh used its own threading for a long time but
transitioned out in the late 60s-early 70s. You might try Sheldon Brown's pages for more info.

Bill Putnam said:

The Super Course was built in the Carlton factory and not at the Nottingham factory, hence it uses
standard British thread dimensions rather than the Raleigh 26 tpi. The Super Course is a nice
frame with adequate clearance for fenders.

Sure it's reasonable to retrofit the frame with modern components, but it may not be cost
effective vs. buying a new bike, depending on how many components you have already on hand to use
for the retrofit.

Wheels were originally 27 inch, which isn't really too much of a problem as decent tires are
available (although the best ever IMHO Avocet slick tires are no longer made in 27 inch), or you
might be able to use 700c's if the brake reach is adequate. You would have to try 700c wheels to
find out.

Consider what the frame dimensions are of the Raleigh vs. new bikes you're looking at, and whether
the Raleigh or new bikes fits you better. Personally I prefer upgrading a quality old bike rather
than buying new just because I prefer the older style, but from a monetary standpoint a new bike
often wins out.

Bill Putnam, currently rebuilding an old Fuji touring bike for use as a commuter

Well, yes and no on that BB thread. We sold Nottingham Super Courses with 26tpi BB threads (and also
Osaka and Taipei Super Courses with BSC). The Carleton built were before our time but I don't know
the years.

You're right to mention that. Except for a Phil Wood or running a square taper spindle in the
original cups, the crank options are limited with that thread.

OTOH if everything else is copacetic, many riders just run BSC taps across 26 threads and nothing
awful happens. Sure that sounds tacky and they do run out of phase at about half an inch but we
haven't seen cup movement.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

You might enjoy my Retro Raleighs site:

retroraleighs.comretroraleighs.comOpen ↗

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown

Dear Sheldon,

I did this and that site states that the Super Course "... was also the least expensive model to use
standard British tread dimensions, rather than the Raleigh proprietary threading used on bikes built
at the Nottingham factory."

I had a Super Course 20 some years ago and it had BSC threading, so I assumed that the statement
above was correct. Andy Muzi, though, noted that not all Super Courses had BSC threading. Could you
please correct your web page so more people like me don't spread misinformation?

Thanks,

Bill Putnam

Sheldon Brown said:

These were made before "proportional sizing" was common on mass-produced bikes. All sizes had 22
inch top tubes.

Sheldon - how did that work? I think that this would require that the angles between tubes would
differ for each size - did they have different *LUGS* for each size?

Thanks, Erik Brooks

[email hidden] (Donald Gillies) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(JP) said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Nartker) wrote in message news:<20040211065034.13536.00001429@mb-
m24.aol.com>...
> I have an old Raleigh Supercourse with a Reynolds Frame. It is a very comfortable frame for
> me, but the components are way outdated. Is it resonable to retrofit it, or should I shop for
> a new Trek?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it was me I would rebuild it with Campy Chorus while trying to maintain as much of the
original look as possible.

chorus is overkill for a bike with 531 plain gauge tubing, only in the main tubes. This is a bike
with a chunkey 7.5 lbs frame, it doesn't warrant a $1500 campy build kit. If you are going to
build a bike with Campy Chorus, get a 531 db throughout frame, there were 4 raleighs made with
this frameset (team, pro, international, competition) and they are readily obtainable for ~ $100
on ebay.

At that point, if you want to built it up with a 1970's type of component system, you want to cold-
set the rear wheel to almost 130 mm, and then use campy centaur parts, which are probably closest
in finish and functionality (with indexing), at a reasonable weight and price, to nuovo record
(the 1970's parts). Centaur is what's on the present-day raleigh international, which is 2 steps
up from the raleigh supercourse.

Sounds reasonable but I think Nuovo Record was to Super Record as Chorus is to Record.

JP

Bill Putnam said:

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

You might enjoy my Retro Raleighs site:

retroraleighs.comretroraleighs.comOpen ↗

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown

Dear Sheldon,

I did this and that site states that the Super Course "... was also the least expensive model to
use standard British tread dimensions, rather than the Raleigh proprietary threading used on bikes
built at the Nottingham factory."

I had a Super Course 20 some years ago and it had BSC threading, so I assumed that the statement
above was correct. Andy Muzi, though, noted that not all Super Courses had BSC threading. Could
you please correct your web page so more people like me don't spread misinformation?

Thanks,

Bill Putnam

When reporting a bad link or a typo on one of my Web pages, it would be very helpful to provide the
URL of the page that it is on, and the location on the page.

I have hundreds of different Web pages, and without specifics it is hard to deal with problems
like this.

All the best,

Sheldon Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------------------
+
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+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

I said:

Quoted message said:

These were made before "proportional sizing" was common on mass-produced bikes. All sizes had 22
inch top tubes.

Erik Brooks

Quoted message said:

Sheldon - how did that work? I think that this would require that the angles between tubes would
differ for each size - did they have different *LUGS* for each size?

Au contraire, this made everything _easier_ for the builder. The difference between the 21 1/2 and
the 25 1/2 was that the seat tube and head tube were 4 inches longer, nothing else. Since these
frames had parallel head/seat angles, no adjustment to the jigging or lugs was needed.

The larger sizes usually did come with longer handlebar stem extensions than the smaller ones.

Sheldon "22 Inch Top Tube Is Perfect For Me" Brown +----------------------------------------+
| Do not do unto others as you would | that they should do unto you. | Their tastes may not be the
| same. | --George Bernard Shaw |
+----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

(Bill Putnam) said:

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

You might enjoy my Retro Raleighs site:

retroraleighs.comretroraleighs.comOpen ↗

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown

Quoted message said:

Dear Sheldon,

Quoted message said:

I had a Super Course 20 some years ago and it had BSC threading, so I assumed that the statement
above was correct. Andy Muzi, though, noted that not all Super Courses had BSC threading. Could you
please correct your web page so more people like me don't spread misinformation?

Quoted message said:

Thanks,

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam

You guys are all WET. The only raleighs that used proprietary threading were the 3-speeds. Any ten-
speed bikes using NERVAR or Stronglight double cranks most likely used BSC.

- Don "Sugino MAXY on my Grand Prix in 1972" Gillies San Diego, CA