Real issues in cycling.

In article <[email hidden]>,

DepartFictif said:

How about Davitamon not wanting a rider who suffers from mild epilepsy?
Is that an issue? Does his condition stop him racing? Does the UCI
prevent him from racing? HAve their been other, successful epileptic
cyclists? Should Davitamon have kept the rider and made a useful
marketing tool out of his condition?

I hadn't seen anything about this before the note in Cyclingnews today. I
wonder if there's a concern about medication problems. On the same line, I
wonder if Franck Bouyer (who has narcolepsy) has gotten a waiver to race from
the UCI since the medication he takes for it is on the banned list.

Quoted message said:

Tour de Langkawi reveled that some top level athletes are living in a
sport that isn't offering the best cyclists contracts. Why oh why is
David George without a contract for the 2006 season? Why doesn't his
teammate and 2nd in the mountains rider Darren Lill without a contract?
Is it acceptable that George, winner of the overall + winner of the
mountains has been left "out of a job"? Why do these things happen
when some riders who aren't worth [censored] are riding on the world's
biggest team?

I imagine that most of the teams simply don't take the race all that
seriously, so they don't take the winner all that seriously. They may simply
think he's peaked for that race and that's all he has.

Quoted message said:

I have yet to read anything here on Genevieve Jenson's "retirement"...

Search the group for "Jeanson banned for life," it was about mid January.

--
tanx,
Howard

The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

DepartFictif said:

How about Davitamon not wanting a rider who suffers from mild epilepsy?
Is that an issue? Does his condition stop him racing? Does the UCI
prevent him from racing? HAve their been other, successful epileptic
cyclists? Should Davitamon have kept the rider and made a useful
marketing tool out of his condition?

If it doesn't fit, you mustn't quit.

Bouyers' medication is banned, but the epilipsy stuff isn't.. other
athletes have raced with epilipsy... not good from Davitamon.

As for the Tour de Langkawi, teams have taken it seriously in the
past... admitedly there are less BIG teams there this year, but those
South African guys have proven their worth, racing most of the world's
biggest races, such as Classica San Sebastien, Worlds, Midi Libre, Tour
of Portugal etc etc etc. It's not JUST about that one race, it's about
guys not getting contracts when they really should... every year some
good riders fall by the wayside...

DepartFictif said:

Bouyers' medication is banned, but the epilipsy stuff isn't.. other
athletes have raced with epilipsy... not good from Davitamon.

There's a little more to it than that:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/feb06/feb16news3

Jeff

On 15 Feb 2006 23:07:56 -0800, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>
wrote

Heavy stuff. Let me think about it.

JT

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And what did they prove at these world's biggest races?

that they can get dropped... what do people usually prove in big races
when there is something to prove?!

Quoted message said:

And what did they prove at these world's biggest races?

I'm sorry, I don't quite get your point.

DepartFictif said:

As for the Tour de Langkawi, teams have taken it seriously in the
past... admitedly there are less BIG teams there this year, but those
South African guys have proven their worth, racing most of the world's
biggest races, such as Classica San Sebastien, Worlds, Midi Libre, Tour
of Portugal etc etc etc. It's not JUST about that one race, it's about
guys not getting contracts when they really should... every year some
good riders fall by the wayside...

dumbass,

that's true and there's a reason for that. there's a huge disconnect
between how cycling people (riders and fans) see the sport and how
business people do. riders and fans place the most importance on the
riders -- that's why ex-riders and cycling fans mainly try to start
teams instead of races.

but in the business of sports the event is the star. a big name might
bring more publicity, but the superbowl or the soccer world cup or the
olympics is a big event regardless of who is actually competing.

the tour is going to get a certain amount of exposure, and that is "the
product". no one except a few observant fans cares if david george
rides the tour or not. from a business standpoint (though perhaps not
from a sporting standpoint) another rider who's not as good can serve
the same function.

cycling is the event, not the atheletes, that's why there are races
over a hundred years old , but even the longest running teams are only
a dozen or so years old.

Quoted message said:

How about Davitamon not wanting a rider who suffers from mild epilepsy?
Is that an issue? Does his condition stop him racing? Does the UCI
prevent him from racing? HAve their been other, successful epileptic
cyclists? Should Davitamon have kept the rider and made a useful
marketing tool out of his condition?

That's a real tough one. With drug issues becoming an ever-stronger magnet
for all-things-bad-about-cycling, could be that a team wants to take as few
risks of coming up positive, or even questioningly-so, as possible.
Retroactive bans on drugs are likely to become the norm in the future, so
perhaps the fewer meds a rider is taking, the better.

Of course, it could be seen entirely differently- that a rider with
something that can't be denied allows more leeway in anti-doping
interpretation. It's not as if a whole lot of people are going to claim to
be epileptic in order to get performance-enhancing drugs. Not that anyone
would abuse such loopholes by claiming to be asthmatic...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Quoted message said:

DepartFictif said:

Bouyers' medication is banned, but the epilipsy stuff isn't.. other
athletes have raced with epilipsy... not good from Davitamon.

There's a little more to it than that:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/feb06/feb16news3

Jeff

Jeff: Are you referring to the passage below? That there was more to it than
a "health problem?"

========
"De Geyter was keen to move on. "It's not in Nic's interests to inflame the
situation," he said. The issue with Davitamon-Lotto "was not primarily a
health problem"."
========

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On 15 Feb 2006 23:07:56 -0800, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How about Davitamon not wanting a rider who suffers from mild epilepsy?
Is that an issue? Does his condition stop him racing? Does the UCI
prevent him from racing? HAve their been other, successful epileptic
cyclists? Should Davitamon have kept the rider and made a useful
marketing tool out of his condition?

I think so. It's not that rare. I think Marion Clignet raced with
epilepsy under control.

JT

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In article <[email hidden]>,

DepartFictif said:

Bouyers' medication is banned, but the epilipsy stuff isn't.. other
athletes have raced with epilipsy... not good from Davitamon.

Well, if the epilepsy thing is the only reason he's leaving Davitamon, then
that's not so good. As JFT mentioned, M. Clignet raced with it and did fine. I
imagine there are others. I wonder if they're using this as an excuse for some
other problem between him and the management.

Quoted message said:

As for the Tour de Langkawi, teams have taken it seriously in the
past... admitedly there are less BIG teams there this year, but those
South African guys have proven their worth, racing most of the world's
biggest races, such as Classica San Sebastien, Worlds, Midi Libre, Tour
of Portugal etc etc etc. It's not JUST about that one race, it's about
guys not getting contracts when they really should... every year some
good riders fall by the wayside...

The race has been a fairly big deal in the past, but it seems to have lost a
lot of luster in the last couple of years. The quality of the teams has dropped,
as well as the quality of the riders on the teams that do go. (When I say
"quality" I'm referring to stature - just to be clear on that.) Amit is correct
in thinking that cycling is fairly focused on races and less so on individuals -
at least until individuals get to a certain level. The relatively few superstars
are exceptions on that front. The whole sponsorship thing is a strange one.
Companies try to figure out how to spend their money in a way that gets them the
most benefit. Perhaps they feel that certain riders will get them more notice in
the public eye, and guys who are riding well, like George, may not fit that
bill. It happens in all sponsor driven sports (car and motorcycle racers are
very susceptable to that).

--
tanx,
Howard

The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

I interpret them to be saying - "We don't like this guy anyway."

In the US racing teams SPONSORS could be held responsible for team
health. I don't know how it works in Europe but surely they'd want to
be careful with people who have preexisting medical problems.

Imagine the impact on the team if someone had an epileptic siezure in
the middle of a race? None of the siezure medicines GUARANTEE that
siezures won't occur.

As for narcoleptsy - this is much the same. I've ridden with a guy who
I think is borderline narcoleptic and it's pretty scary. I think that
he disappears for a fraction of a second whenever we're on a smooth
flat road. When it occurs he will swerve one way or the other and if
you're next to him you'd better be ready to fend him off. I've ridden
with this guy for almost 15 years now and it hasn't changed. And if you
yell at him he doesn't understand what you're talking about.

Sponsor not responcible.

There have been other athletes with Epilipsy... even world champs I
think... so...

exactly...

Dumbass,

Sponsors would love to have a guy go down with a seziure, especially
if he's not too valuable.

Lot's of airtime for their name.

Please don't confuse "sponsor" with anything other than advertisement.
Cyclists are no different than billboards to sponsors.

D

On 17 Feb 2006 08:20:36 -0800, "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I interpret them to be saying - "We don't like this guy anyway."

In the US racing teams SPONSORS could be held responsible for team
health. I don't know how it works in Europe but surely they'd want to
be careful with people who have preexisting medical problems.

Imagine the impact on the team if someone had an epileptic siezure in
the middle of a race? None of the siezure medicines GUARANTEE that
siezures won't occur.

As for narcoleptsy - this is much the same. I've ridden with a guy who
I think is borderline narcoleptic and it's pretty scary. I think that
he disappears for a fraction of a second whenever we're on a smooth
flat road. When it occurs he will swerve one way or the other and if
you're next to him you'd better be ready to fend him off. I've ridden
with this guy for almost 15 years now and it hasn't changed. And if you
yell at him he doesn't understand what you're talking about.

Yes, you are dead right... now move further up your screen and read a
little better. The question was whether sponsors are responsible...
like, in legal terms... they are not.. team might be, but not
sponsor... OK.. good.. I'm glad we have cleared that up.
To clear you point up, cyclists ARE billboards.

DepartFictif said:

has been left "out of a job"? Why do these things happen

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Is anyone else interested in this stuff? Or just me?

Dumbass -

This [censored] isn't important. If you were concerned about professional
bowlers or race car drivers or runners or video game players or
whatever.

In the overall scheme of things, it's not important. It's just
entertainment.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

what? It might be entertainment for some, but it is a job, a
livelyhood, a way to support your familly for others.