Re: My longest run yet!

The Bill Rodgers said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:38:03 GMT, "JJ"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> The right shin was a tad sore if I
>rubbed on it last night.

Shin splints. Rest, ice, elevate. The usual.

- bc

bc said:

Shin splints. Rest, ice, elevate. The usual.

Hey pal, you're WAYYYYYYYY behind on this thread...
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

The Bill Rodgers wrote:

(whatever)

I used to do some running. Slow, but steady. Worked up to 16 miles in
preparation for a marathon, but the little injuries added up until I
decided to take some time off. Maybe I'll try again. The ultra
runners impress the hell out of me. I'd love to try some of the
mountain ultras here in Colorado, but I really don't have the time, and
probably not the body, for it.

- bc

Quoted message said:

I used to do some running. Slow, but steady. Worked up to 16 miles in
preparation for a marathon, but the little injuries added up until I
decided to take some time off.

ANY injuries is unacceptable. You did something wrong, either ramping
up your mileage more than 5% at a time, or were wearing the wrong
shoes, had poor form, a spinal misalignment. Until you figure out what
it was, you'll fail again. But several injuries indicates a real
problem.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I used to do some running. Slow, but steady. Worked up to 16 miles
in
preparation for a marathon, but the little injuries added up until I
decided to take some time off.

You didn't say how fast you tried to work up to 16 miles not what your
base was but it's good that you listened to your body and put it off for
another time.

Quoted message said:

I'd love to try some of the
mountain ultras here in Colorado, but I really don't have the time,
and
probably not the body, for it.

Make the time and hit the trails. Hike the ups, and try to run some of
the level and downhill sections(if not too rocky or steep). It will
help you build strength and confidence for a future marathon while you
enjoy the trails.

-DF

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:21:34 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't say how fast you tried to work up to 16 miles not what your
base was but it's good that you listened to your body and put it off for
another time.

No you DF he DID NOT listen to his body, if he had he'd be injury
free.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

The Bill Rodgers said:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:21:34 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't say how fast you tried to work up to 16 miles not what your
base was but it's good that you listened to your body and put it off for
another time.

The 16'ers were the longest of my weekly LSD's. It took me probably 6
months to work up to them from no running at all. I started by
training for a local 10k with some friends (4 months training), and
after, just kept on training. That's when I started using the plan by
Art Liberman, available on the web. It was a good plan, but I was
probably a little agressive, moving onto it at a higher level than I
was really ready for. He suggests, for example, that you have a solid
year of running under your belt before embarking on a marathon
preparation, whereas I certainly did not. Additionally, many other
factors: Some training inconsistency, Old injuries from other
activities, and A not-really-made-for-distance body, caused me to run
into trouble eventually.

If I try again, it will be with care and caution and margin built into
the schedule.

- bc

bc said:

The Bill Rodgers said:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:21:34 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't say how fast you tried to work up to 16 miles not what your
base was but it's good that you listened to your body and put it off for
another time.

The 16'ers were the longest of my weekly LSD's. It took me probably 6
months to work up to them from no running at all. I started by
training for a local 10k with some friends (4 months training), and
after, just kept on training. That's when I started using the plan by
Art Liberman, available on the web. It was a good plan, but I was
probably a little agressive, moving onto it at a higher level than I
was really ready for. He suggests, for example, that you have a solid
year of running under your belt before embarking on a marathon
preparation, whereas I certainly did not. Additionally, many other
factors: Some training inconsistency, Old injuries from other
activities, and A not-really-made-for-distance body, caused me to run
into trouble eventually.

If I try again, it will be with care and caution and margin built into
the schedule.

- bc

That's way too much in 6 months. First work on building a base mileage
of long, slow, runs. But 6 months is way too quick, so it's no wonder
you had several little injurys.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

"However, bear in mind
That as soon as you go down that route,
You are no longer doing the marathon
To get a time,

You are simply doing the marathon
So you can say
You've played one."
~ Peter Allen

"Heck, yeah ~ !
Play your piano, O, baby ..."
~ Martin

"The Baths R
Bubbling over ..."
~ Jack

"Rotary,
Redial ...

..................................... Allo ~ ?"
~ Twittering

~ * ~
_________________________________________
More Trustworthy
Morning Wood Productions & Publications
_________________________________________
~ * ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A Haunted House...
"102 Laura Lane:
A True Tale"
TK.

~ * ~
Further...

"TK ~
The Sequel:
93 Waltham Street"
A Truer Tale

~ * ~
Farther...

"Moore ~
Morning Wood:
Alive Deade Woode"

The Real Tale, Pip!
~ * ~
_______________________________________
Yes ~ A Morning Wood
Immortal Sub Interval Society
________________________________________
* Dogging Arts * Fogging Minds * It's a Star *
________________________________________
*
~ * ~

"However, bear in mind
That as soon as you go down Route 66,
You are no longer running The Marathon
To get a time,

You are simply redialing,
Spinning round the rotary's turn ~ style,

So you can say
You've played Round One.

Now turn ~ around,
You are now going down Route 99,

Spinning round the rotary's
Turn ~ style,

So you can say
You've played Round Ninety ~ Nine.

Spinning round the rotary's
Turn ~ style, now turn ~ around,
You are no longer running The Marathon,

You're spinning round a magical
Orbit."
~ Peter Allen

"Heck, yeah ~ !
Play your piano, O, baby ..."
~ Fobby

"bc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
< That's when I started using the plan by

Quoted message said:

Art Liberman, available on the web. It was a good plan, but I was
probably a little agressive, moving onto it at a higher level than I
was really ready for.

< He suggests, for example, that you have a solid

Quoted message said:

year of running under your belt before embarking on a marathon
preparation, whereas I certainly did not. Additionally, many other
factors: Some training inconsistency, Old injuries from other
activities, and A not-really-made-for-distance body, caused me to run
into trouble eventually.

There are an anecdotal few that can take up running and do a marathon in
their first year but the odds are very slight. I would take a year to
get a base and build to run at most a 1/2 marathon. Use the initial year
to learn about yourself. Yes you have learned a few things but a nice
slow plan to build a base and stay injury free is more fun and higher
rewards.

Quoted message said:

If I try again, it will be with care and caution and margin built into
the schedule.

Even though most marathon schedules are about three months, I would
suggest 4 and allow for a cold or some niggling injury that needs rest.

Ignore Mr. Allen. logic like that will keep you injured.

-DF

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:37:48 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ignore Mr. Allen. logic like that will keep you injured.

Like I said, listen To Peter Allen, and you'll end up REALLY hurting.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:02:38 GMT, T <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine, her whole fitness program is a weekly Sunday morning century.
She ran a sub-4 marathon on a lark, for the T-shirt. Made her about half an
hour slower the following Sunday, a little stiff all that week. Turned down
dancing two weekends in a row (marathon weekend and the weekend after).

No biggie, if you're an endurance weenie anyway. ;-)

You are a troll, an azzhole, or just a liar.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

As a competitive cyclist, now in training for my first marathon, I can
testify that the notion of running a marathon without running is
ridiculous. A year ago tomorrow I won my category in a 180+ mile road
race (Logan, UT to Jackson, WY--LOTOJA) by nineteen minutes, and I felt
like I could have ridden another hundred miles at the end. Today, I ran
8 miles (11 is my max thus far). While it was reasonably easy, as it
should be as a step-back distance, there were some slow patches. The
previous two weeks of 10 and 11 miles respective were barely doable (as
I did not walk, and my legs burned...no injuries, though). Why? Well,
because my massive quads that I've acquired in cycling do nothing for
my weak hamstrings and calves, lack of bone density, strike pattern and
pronation, stride length and turn over...

Responding that you personally know one person who did it is a lousy
argument. I know someone who runs 100+ mile trail ultra-ultras, or
whatever the hell they call 'em, but I'd be an idiot if I were to post
something like "100+ foot races are for wussies! I could do one with a
month's training if I wanted (I just don't want to)". Everyone who knew
Thomas Edison "knew someone" capable of inventing the lightbulb, but no
one else had done it at that point. Better put, of the many people do
you know who are endurance atheletes in a sport other than cycling who
have ALSO run a marathon, how many of them did minimal training for the
marathon? Is it less than 3%? Well, if so, that's two standard
deviations--a lot--and I suspect that's what you'd find, if that.

Almost nobody can run a marathon without proper training, just like the
folks here at rec.running couldn't hop on a bike tomorrow and win a
sanctioned double century road race.

The ultimate question in posting such nonsense is, have YOU ever run
(or attempted) a marathon in this manner? And, if so, what was the
result?

John

Quoted message said:

Almost nobody can run a marathon without proper training, just like the
folks here at rec.running couldn't hop on a bike tomorrow and win a
sanctioned double century road race.

Well, I could, but none of these other wussies could.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine, her whole fitness program is a weekly Sunday morning century.
She ran a sub-4 marathon on a lark, for the T-shirt. Made her about half an
hour slower the following Sunday, a little stiff all that week. Turned down
dancing two weekends in a row (marathon weekend and the weekend after).

No biggie, if you're an endurance weenie anyway. ;-)

"A friend of mine..."

Hmm. I don't suppose this "friend" also had robbers break into her
house who stuck her toothbrush up their cornholes and then mailed her
the pictures a week later? And these robbers probably then sued her and
won? Then they all did the Ironman Hawaaii together and had a good
laugh? Yeah, I've heard of her.

Before cashing in my four bikes for some running shoes a few months
ago, I might have believed this. First of all, one simply cannot run
26.2 miles without first conditioning your legs regardless of your
conditioning for other sports. Okay, Superman could, and maybe the
Flash, but they are both runners already. Secondly, and more
astonishing to me, an "endurance weenie," 100m/wk on a bike is HARDLY
an endurance weenie!!!

Cyclists train by time, not miles, as you know if you're a cyclist, and
at 20mph on flats or as low as 15mph in the mountains, this (100 miles
once a week) would amount to at best a horrible training program of an
inexperienced citizen or Cat V racer, or, more likely, a slow
recreational rider (by racing standards). Serious cyclists train at
least 10-20 hours per week, and if just ten, it's really intense and
toward a peak with a race each weekend. Anyone training on a bike
should be distributing the mileage across the week, in this case like
1hr-2hr-rest-1hr-1hr-1hr-rest...that's a weenie, for sure, but not an
endurance weenie. Training for distance on a bike is very similar to
marathon training: One big ride, and riding almost every day, with at
least one rest day. I could go on...

Your story just doesn't seem to hold much water. ;-)

John Derby
2004 LOTOJA category winner (~187 mile road race, 9:01:04)
2002 Intermountain Cup, overall class champion, Expert 30-39 (mountain)
2001 Utah Cyclocross Series State Championships, 2nd, A Flite

2005 (finish the Air Force half marathon next week, and the Tucson
marathon in December, as the result of proper education and
training...both pending)

Why would you waste so much time replying to an idiot troll?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine, her whole fitness program is a weekly Sunday morning century.
She ran a sub-4 marathon on a lark, for the T-shirt. Made her about half an
hour slower the following Sunday, a little stiff all that week. Turned down
dancing two weekends in a row (marathon weekend and the weekend after).

No biggie, if you're an endurance weenie anyway. ;-)

"A friend of mine..."

Hmm. I don't suppose this "friend" also had robbers break into her
house who stuck her toothbrush up their cornholes and then mailed her
the pictures a week later? And these robbers probably then sued her and
won? Then they all did the Ironman Hawaaii together and had a good
laugh? Yeah, I've heard of her.

Before cashing in my four bikes for some running shoes a few months
ago, I might have believed this. First of all, one simply cannot run
26.2 miles without first conditioning your legs regardless of your
conditioning for other sports. Okay, Superman could, and maybe the
Flash, but they are both runners already. Secondly, and more
astonishing to me, an "endurance weenie," 100m/wk on a bike is HARDLY
an endurance weenie!!!

Cyclists train by time, not miles, as you know if you're a cyclist, and
at 20mph on flats or as low as 15mph in the mountains, this (100 miles
once a week) would amount to at best a horrible training program of an
inexperienced citizen or Cat V racer, or, more likely, a slow
recreational rider (by racing standards). Serious cyclists train at
least 10-20 hours per week, and if just ten, it's really intense and
toward a peak with a race each weekend. Anyone training on a bike
should be distributing the mileage across the week, in this case like
1hr-2hr-rest-1hr-1hr-1hr-rest...that's a weenie, for sure, but not an
endurance weenie. Training for distance on a bike is very similar to
marathon training: One big ride, and riding almost every day, with at
least one rest day. I could go on...

Your story just doesn't seem to hold much water. ;-)

John Derby
2004 LOTOJA category winner (~187 mile road race, 9:01:04)
2002 Intermountain Cup, overall class champion, Expert 30-39 (mountain)
2001 Utah Cyclocross Series State Championships, 2nd, A Flite

2005 (finish the Air Force half marathon next week, and the Tucson
marathon in December, as the result of proper education and
training...both pending)

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Quoted message said:

As a competitive cyclist, now in training for my first marathon, I can
testify that the notion of running a marathon without running is
ridiculous. A year ago tomorrow I won my category in a 180+ mile road
race (Logan, UT to Jackson, WY--LOTOJA) by nineteen minutes, and I felt
like I could have ridden another hundred miles at the end. Today, I ran
8 miles (11 is my max thus far). While it was reasonably easy, as it
should be as a step-back distance, there were some slow patches. The
previous two weeks of 10 and 11 miles respective were barely doable (as
I did not walk, and my legs burned...no injuries, though). Why? Well,
because my massive quads that I've acquired in cycling do nothing for
my weak hamstrings and calves, lack of bone density, strike pattern and
pronation, stride length and turn over...

Also because you pushed too hard on your long run; no walk breaks, either.

Quoted message said:

Responding that you personally know one person who did it is a lousy
argument. I know someone who runs 100+ mile trail ultra-ultras, or
whatever the hell they call 'em, but I'd be an idiot if I were to post
something like "100+ foot races are for wussies! I could do one with a
month's training if I wanted (I just don't want to)". Everyone who knew
Thomas Edison "knew someone" capable of inventing the lightbulb, but no
one else had done it at that point. Better put, of the many people do
you know who are endurance atheletes in a sport other than cycling who
have ALSO run a marathon, how many of them did minimal training for the
marathon? Is it less than 3%? Well, if so, that's two standard
deviations--a lot--and I suspect that's what you'd find, if that.

In college I knew a lot of people who ran Boston as bandits on virtually no
training; just youth, high spirits, and beer.

Quoted message said:

Almost nobody can run a marathon without proper training, just like the
folks here at rec.running couldn't hop on a bike tomorrow and win a
sanctioned double century road race.

If you can't distinguish between running, racing, and winning, life is going to
be very hard for you.

Quoted message said:

The ultimate question in posting such nonsense is, have YOU ever run
(or attempted) a marathon in this manner? And, if so, what was the
result?

No.

But if I did I'd win, I'm sure. ;-)