question about glucose testing

Ann in Houston wrote:
:: Hi. I want to know what is the difference between 'screening' your
:: likelihood of diabetes with a blood sugar monitor as opposed to
:: going and having a blood draw at a lab. My daughter has some
:: symptoms associated with diabetes and it is in both my husband's
:: family and mine. The appointment with the doc is two weeks away and
:: we tested her with my MIL's blood meter. It read 90 after a two hour
:: fast. What is the difference between that and the results from a
:: lab?
::

You might want to ask this in the diabetes newsgroup.

Still, one thing I'd worry about is getting diagnosed. Once you do that,
you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company. If you need it,
you need it. However, if one adopts LC as a lifestyle, one can avoid the
complications of diabetes and avoid being diagnosed. I mention that because
you mentioned it's your daughter. There might be time to do something.

With a BG meter and careful monitoring and the right info, you can pretty
much tell what the lab will find out. If you're running high BGs numbers
consistently, it will show up has an elevated HbA1c reading. A doctor can
also do a glucose tolerance test, which isn't needed to be diagnosed. With
a meter, one can also check fasting BG readings, too, to get a good feel for
what's going on.

Note: one reading from a meter is not likely to give you a complete
indication of much.

BTW, what do you mean by a two hour fast?

What symptoms? How old is your daughter?

While I would not try to play doctor with her (were she my kid), I
personally would attempt to get a good picture of what's going on with her
BG numbers before/after meals and upon waking up. Good testing at the
proper intervals and under her normal eating conditions will tell you mostly
what you need to know, IMO.

I accidentally hit the 'reply' button instead of the 'reply group' button.
sorry, Roger.
Here's the post as I meant to send it.
"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ann in Houston wrote:
:: Hi. I want to know what is the difference between 'screening' your
:: likelihood of diabetes with a blood sugar monitor as opposed to
:: going and having a blood draw at a lab. My daughter has some
:: symptoms associated with diabetes and it is in both my husband's
:: family and mine. The appointment with the doc is two weeks away and
:: we tested her with my MIL's blood meter. It read 90 after a two hour
:: fast. What is the difference between that and the results from a
:: lab?
::

You might want to ask this in the diabetes newsgroup.

Still, one thing I'd worry about is getting diagnosed. Once you do that,
you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company. If you need it,
you need it. However, if one adopts LC as a lifestyle, one can avoid the
complications of diabetes and avoid being diagnosed. I mention that
because you mentioned it's your daughter. There might be time to do
something.

With a BG meter and careful monitoring and the right info, you can pretty
much tell what the lab will find out. If you're running high BGs numbers
consistently, it will show up has an elevated HbA1c reading. A doctor can
also do a glucose tolerance test, which isn't needed to be diagnosed.
With a meter, one can also check fasting BG readings, too, to get a good
feel for what's going on.

Note: one reading from a meter is not likely to give you a complete
indication of much.

BTW, what do you mean by a two hour fast?

What symptoms? How old is your daughter?

While I would not try to play doctor with her (were she my kid), I
personally would attempt to get a good picture of what's going on with her
BG numbers before/after meals and upon waking up. Good testing at the
proper intervals and under her normal eating conditions will tell you
mostly what you need to know, IMO.

Ann in Houston wrote:
:: I accidentally hit the 'reply' button instead of the 'reply group'
:: button. sorry, Roger.
:: Here's the post as I meant to send it.

You mean without any comments? I prefer the one I got via private mail! 🙂

No problems!

:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Ann in Houston wrote:
::::: Hi. I want to know what is the difference between 'screening'
::::: your likelihood of diabetes with a blood sugar monitor as opposed
::::: to going and having a blood draw at a lab. My daughter has some
::::: symptoms associated with diabetes and it is in both my husband's
::::: family and mine. The appointment with the doc is two weeks away
::::: and we tested her with my MIL's blood meter. It read 90 after a
::::: two hour fast. What is the difference between that and the
::::: results from a lab?
:::::
:::
::: You might want to ask this in the diabetes newsgroup.
:::
::: Still, one thing I'd worry about is getting diagnosed. Once you do
::: that, you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company. If
::: you need it, you need it. However, if one adopts LC as a lifestyle,
::: one can avoid the complications of diabetes and avoid being
::: diagnosed. I mention that because you mentioned it's your
::: daughter. There might be time to do something.
:::
::: With a BG meter and careful monitoring and the right info, you can
::: pretty much tell what the lab will find out. If you're running high
::: BGs numbers consistently, it will show up has an elevated HbA1c
::: reading. A doctor can also do a glucose tolerance test, which
::: isn't needed to be diagnosed. With a meter, one can also check
::: fasting BG readings, too, to get a good feel for what's going on.
:::
::: Note: one reading from a meter is not likely to give you a complete
::: indication of much.
:::
::: BTW, what do you mean by a two hour fast?
:::
::: What symptoms? How old is your daughter?
:::
::: While I would not try to play doctor with her (were she my kid), I
::: personally would attempt to get a good picture of what's going on
::: with her BG numbers before/after meals and upon waking up. Good
::: testing at the proper intervals and under her normal eating
::: conditions will tell you mostly what you need to know, IMO.

Wow! I really botched that up. You'd think I never used a ng before.
Should I repost for the benefit of anyone who might be interested?
"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ann in Houston wrote:
:: I accidentally hit the 'reply' button instead of the 'reply group'
:: button. sorry, Roger.
:: Here's the post as I meant to send it.

You mean without any comments? I prefer the one I got via private mail!
🙂

No problems!

:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Ann in Houston wrote:
::::: Hi. I want to know what is the difference between 'screening'
::::: your likelihood of diabetes with a blood sugar monitor as opposed
::::: to going and having a blood draw at a lab. My daughter has some
::::: symptoms associated with diabetes and it is in both my husband's
::::: family and mine. The appointment with the doc is two weeks away
::::: and we tested her with my MIL's blood meter. It read 90 after a
::::: two hour fast. What is the difference between that and the
::::: results from a lab?
:::::
:::
::: You might want to ask this in the diabetes newsgroup.
:::
::: Still, one thing I'd worry about is getting diagnosed. Once you do
::: that, you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company. If
::: you need it, you need it. However, if one adopts LC as a lifestyle,
::: one can avoid the complications of diabetes and avoid being
::: diagnosed. I mention that because you mentioned it's your
::: daughter. There might be time to do something.
:::
::: With a BG meter and careful monitoring and the right info, you can
::: pretty much tell what the lab will find out. If you're running high
::: BGs numbers consistently, it will show up has an elevated HbA1c
::: reading. A doctor can also do a glucose tolerance test, which
::: isn't needed to be diagnosed. With a meter, one can also check
::: fasting BG readings, too, to get a good feel for what's going on.
:::
::: Note: one reading from a meter is not likely to give you a complete
::: indication of much.
:::
::: BTW, what do you mean by a two hour fast?
:::
::: What symptoms? How old is your daughter?
:::
::: While I would not try to play doctor with her (were she my kid), I
::: personally would attempt to get a good picture of what's going on
::: with her BG numbers before/after meals and upon waking up. Good
::: testing at the proper intervals and under her normal eating
::: conditions will tell you mostly what you need to know, IMO.

Ann in Houston said:

Wow! I really botched that up. You'd think I never used a ng before.
Should I repost for the benefit of anyone who might be interested?

Yes, please. I'm planning to get a meter myself, and I'm interested
in knowing how much it varies from the hospital test.

Also, I have no insurance, so I'm curious about what Roger said about
how "you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company." If I
do get insurance someday, should I wait until then to be tested, or
would they consider it pre-existing anyway? Not that I hope ever to
be buying insulin, but I figured it might matter in some way.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised."

Aaron Baugher wrote:
:: "Ann in Houston" <[email hidden]> writes:
::
::: Wow! I really botched that up. You'd think I never used a ng
::: before. Should I repost for the benefit of anyone who might be
::: interested?
::
:: Yes, please. I'm planning to get a meter myself, and I'm interested
:: in knowing how much it varies from the hospital test.
::
:: Also, I have no insurance, so I'm curious about what Roger said about
:: how "you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company." If I
:: do get insurance someday, should I wait until then to be tested,

I would say that depends....if you know you're in good control via diet &
exercise, then perhaps so.
However, if you're not (and I assume you are), I'd be fearful of the notion
of walking around with dangerously high BG levels so I could stay
"undiagnosed". I think it would be an extremely bad idea for someone who is
not very familiar with diabetes to be avoiding medical care for fear of what
the insurance co. might do the road. However, many T2D on diet & exercise
could avoid easy detection on your typical doctor's visit.

or
:: would they consider it pre-existing anyway? Not that I hope ever to
:: be buying insulin, but I figured it might matter in some way.

I'm not sure, as I've not been in that situation. This is where the
experience of others on the diabetic ng would be helpful. What I was
thinking of are things like life insurance, etc., where they look at any
pre-existing issues and use that to determine your rates. I suppose,
however, that some companies might decide to not hire someone due to serious
pre-existing health issues, though I've not experienced it.

"Ann in Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wow! I really botched that up. You'd think I never used a ng before.
Should I repost for the benefit of anyone who might be interested?

If you do, please don't top post.

Post how you want to Ann. :-)

Cheri

Pat wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ann in Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wow! I really botched that up. You'd think I never used a ng

before.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should I repost for the benefit of anyone who might be interested?

If you do, please don't top post.

Here's the post as it was supposed to be. It is an intermittent post, as
you can see.'

Quoted message said:

You might want to ask this in the diabetes newsgroup.

Still, one thing I'd worry about is getting diagnosed. Once you do that,
you'll never be treated the same by an insurance company. If you need it,
you need it. However, if one adopts LC as a lifestyle, one can avoid the
complications of diabetes and avoid being diagnosed. I mention that
because you mentioned it's your daughter. There might be time to do
something.

Not because of insurance ( I just didn't think of that) but I would rather
figure it out and first handle it with diet. DH was recently diagnosed with
it but we are controlling it well. He was really just over the line. The
doc didn't even make specific diet recommendations. I think Steve mentioned
that his wife does lc and she just told him to eat protein throughout the
day, stay off sugar and limit starches. Her biggest concern was for him to
lose weight, which he has done.

Quoted message said:

With a BG meter and careful monitoring and the right info, you can pretty
much tell what the lab will find out. If you're running high BGs numbers
consistently, it will show up has an elevated HbA1c reading. A doctor can
also do a glucose tolerance test, which isn't needed to be diagnosed.
With a meter, one can also check fasting BG readings, too, to get a good
feel for what's going on.

Note: one reading from a meter is not likely to give you a complete
indication of much.

I had a feeling that was the case.

Quoted message said:

BTW, what do you mean by a two hour fast?

I guess that was poor wording. She hadn't eaten for two hours. That is
the amount of time that MIL is supposed to wait before monitoring.

Quoted message said:

What symptoms? How old is your daughter?

She is fifteen. Her usual pattern (more about this later) would be that she
would sleep until we wake her up. I never tested it past about 1:00 in the
afternoon, but she was no easier to wake up then than if I had done so
before noon. She isn't an energetic person to begin with, and she does get
really grouchy if she gets hungry. She improves dramatically if we give her
so much as a cracker. Our first thought was that she was likely
hypoglycemic and I make sure she gets protein at every meal and cut back on
her beloved noodles sharply. But of course, 'well meaning' (i.e. paranoid,
childless) relatives are insisting that this is dangerous and that she must
go get tested. She (our daughter) has so many personality issues that I
felt that if she did have blood sugar issues, she might improve and be
happier and healthier. As for the note in parentheses, I have been having
her drink the cocoa from the company I represent because it has really
helped both DH and the worried aunt, with energy levels through a supplement
that
is in it. They drink coffee, she likes the cocoa. The sugar is of a raw,
slow GI nature and has been tolerated well by the diabetic patients of the
naturopath who I heard about it from. Anyway, the cocoa helps, but she
still has a generally low energy level and I think that is just her nature.

Quoted message said:

While I would not try to play doctor with her (were she my kid), I
personally would attempt to get a good picture of what's going on with her
BG numbers before/after meals and upon waking up. Good testing at the
proper intervals and under her normal eating conditions will tell you
mostly what you need to know, IMO.

I do want to do just about what you suggest, and then go get an official
diagnosis if it is still warranted. I think we have enough knowledge to
judge when it becomes necessary. She is young enough to learn how to eat as
careully as necessary for her health. The prospect and fear of needles and
blood draws would be enough to motivate her for a loooong time. I will lurk
on the diabetes group for a while and then decide what to do. I think it's
LC in the meantime for her.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I found this on the net. I can not confirm it's correctness.
Take the reading from your meter and mutiply by 1.12 to get the lab's
readings.

Roger Zoul said:

Aaron Baugher wrote:

Quoted message said:

:: Also, I have no insurance, so I'm curious about what Roger said
:: about how "you'll never be treated the same by an insurance
:: company." If I do get insurance someday, should I wait until
:: then to be tested,

Quoted message said:

I would say that depends....if you know you're in good control via
diet & exercise, then perhaps so.

Well, I *can* be in good control; I just haven't always chosen to be.
I've tended to treat it like something I can take an occasional
vacation from, and then I come back from the vacation sunburnt and
hung-over with a bad case of VD, and swear never to do that again. I
think on some level I've been resisting the truth that this has to be
a lifetime commitment; that I'm not going to be able to lose the
weight and then go back to eating plenty of carby foods, even in
moderation.

Quoted message said:

However, if you're not (and I assume you are), I'd be fearful of the
notion of walking around with dangerously high BG levels so I could
stay "undiagnosed". I think it would be an extremely bad idea for
someone who is not very familiar with diabetes to be avoiding
medical care for fear of what the insurance co. might do the
road. However, many T2D on diet & exercise could avoid easy
detection on your typical doctor's visit.

So if I get tested while on a low-carb diet, it could throw off the
results because they assume a certain amount of dietary glucose?
Sounds like I should eat a "normal" diet for a couple days before
doing it.

I'm about 95% sure I'm diabetic, or next thing to it. I've got all
the symptoms of high BG except for muscle cramps, (probably because I
use plenty of potassium salt) and the symptoms increase when I take a
vacation from LC.

But if I'm convinced I have diabetes, and I'm going to get Bernstein's
book and do a bunch of research and control it with diet, does it
matter whether a doctor tests me and confirms it? It matters if I'm
going to have insurance help pay for my test equipment or treatments,
obviously; but if I don't have insurance, I wonder if there's any
point -- except to convince myself that last 5% so I stop taking those
"vacations."

Guess it's time to do some more research!

Thanks,
--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"If your life sucks, it is because you suck." -- Larry Winget

Aaron Baugher wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:
::
::: Aaron Baugher wrote:
::
::::: Also, I have no insurance, so I'm curious about what Roger said
::::: about how "you'll never be treated the same by an insurance
::::: company." If I do get insurance someday, should I wait until
::::: then to be tested,
::
::: I would say that depends....if you know you're in good control via
::: diet & exercise, then perhaps so.
::
:: Well, I *can* be in good control; I just haven't always chosen to be.
:: I've tended to treat it like something I can take an occasional
:: vacation from, and then I come back from the vacation sunburnt and
:: hung-over with a bad case of VD, and swear never to do that again. I
:: think on some level I've been resisting the truth that this has to be
:: a lifetime commitment; that I'm not going to be able to lose the
:: weight and then go back to eating plenty of carby foods, even in
:: moderation.
::

One of the things that helps be stay LC is the fact that I am a T2D and have
been for over half my life now.

::: However, if you're not (and I assume you are), I'd be fearful of the
::: notion of walking around with dangerously high BG levels so I could
::: stay "undiagnosed". I think it would be an extremely bad idea for
::: someone who is not very familiar with diabetes to be avoiding
::: medical care for fear of what the insurance co. might do the
::: road. However, many T2D on diet & exercise could avoid easy
::: detection on your typical doctor's visit.
::
:: So if I get tested while on a low-carb diet, it could throw off the
:: results because they assume a certain amount of dietary glucose?

It's true. If you've been LCing for a while, your initial reaction to carbs
might be stronger than if you had been eating them.

And of course, it does depend on what test they do. For example, FBS and
random on the spot checks would make you appear non-diabetic if you're in
good control. A GTT might be a different story. They'd probably require to
you eat certain carb levels prior to the test to get a clear picture. Of
course, I've never had such a test. You could do well on the A1C too if
you're a well-controlled T2D.

:: Sounds like I should eat a "normal" diet for a couple days before
:: doing it.
::
:: I'm about 95% sure I'm diabetic, or next thing to it. I've got all
:: the symptoms of high BG except for muscle cramps, (probably because I
:: use plenty of potassium salt) and the symptoms increase when I take a
:: vacation from LC.

That's where a doctor and/or a good meter with proper testing will serve you
well. You can easily determine on your own if a doctor would diagnose you.

::
:: But if I'm convinced I have diabetes, and I'm going to get
:: Bernstein's book and do a bunch of research and control it with
:: diet, does it matter whether a doctor tests me and confirms it? It
:: matters if I'm going to have insurance help pay for my test
:: equipment or treatments, obviously; but if I don't have insurance, I
:: wonder if there's any point -- except to convince myself that last
:: 5% so I stop taking those "vacations."

Good question. Thinking you have T2D will probably end up improving your
overall health, though it might find you're living an overly restrictive
lifestyle if you're not. More so if you follow Bernstein (excellent reading
material, BTW).

::
:: Guess it's time to do some more research!
::

Good luck!

On Apr 30, 11:43 am, "Ann in Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote:

A home bg test tells you what your bg is right now. Doctors offices
often use the same sort of test for screening before doing more
expensive tests. I have "screened" people on my home machine. If
someone reads well over a hundred a couple hours after eating, I tell
them to go see a doctor and ask to be tested for diabetes.

The most commonly done lab test hows what your bg has averaged over
the past few months. This is also done to track how well a known
diabetic is doing - as a check-up.

The most accurate test for diagnosis is one where you go in having
fasted overnight, eat or drink a standardized amount of sugar, and
they test you over the course of several hours. However, the test can
return false positives if you low-carb, so you want to eat high carb
for a few days prior to it.

This bears out in my experience. I have found if I am sticking to a
low-carb diet and have a cheat for one meal, my bg returns to normal
very rapidly. Whereas if I cheat for a whole day, my bg runs high for
a few days. In extreme cases, where I've gone off low-carb for
several days (which I often do when visiting family as it's too
difficult for them to feed me properly), it can take several weeks for
my bg to come back down to normal.

So... the way my body responds to carbs seems to be dependent on what
I've done in the recent past. This is so even though there's no doubt
I'm diabetic, I've been a T2 for well over a decade now. It seems the
benefits of low-carbing for bg control are not just dependent on what
I've eaten recently, the changes in bg from cheating can last for a
few days or weeks and conversely, if I've not cheated, the lower bg
can last even through a minor cheat.

Roger Zoul said:

That's where a doctor and/or a good meter with proper testing will
serve you well. You can easily determine on your own if a doctor
would diagnose you.

Thanks for all the info, Roger. I'll pick up a meter soon and start
testing, and go from there.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Q: What do you do with an elephant with 3 balls?
A: Walk him and pitch to the rhino.

Quoted message said:

This bears out in my experience. I have found if I am sticking to a
low-carb diet and have a cheat for one meal, my bg returns to normal
very rapidly. Whereas if I cheat for a whole day, my bg runs high
for a few days. In extreme cases, where I've gone off low-carb for
several days (which I often do when visiting family as it's too
difficult for them to feed me properly), it can take several weeks
for my bg to come back down to normal.

I don't have a meter yet, but I can see this in the symptoms of
high-carb eating, like fatigue and heartburn. If I've been low-carb
for weeks, one high-carb meal or even a full day off won't cause much
of a reaction (although it will cause cravings). But extend that to
2-3 days, and I'm a mess. Make it a once-a-week thing, and it hits me
a lot sooner, sometimes after a single meal.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"Be polite. Be professional. And have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

"Ann in Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi. I want to know what is the difference between 'screening' your
likelihood of diabetes with a blood sugar monitor as opposed to going and
having a blood draw at a lab. My daughter has some symptoms associated
with diabetes and it is in both my husband's family and mine. The
appointment with the doc is two weeks away and we tested her with my MIL's
blood meter. It read 90 after a two hour fast. What is the difference
between that and the results from a lab?

--
delicious, decaf, antioxidant coffee
www.coffee-surprise.com
Don't forget the dash if you type it.

Hi Ann,

The difference is that you've only gotten a single reading and that doesn't
tell you much. Also, it's not a fasting reading in the true sense of the
word -- upon rising in the morning and before any food is taken.

We don't know what foods she ate for her meal or how much food she ate. We
don't know what pattern we might see if readings were taken over a period of
weeks or months. The HbA1c test can disclose blood glucose patterns over a
few months, although that may be debatable.

If you were able to take readings for the next two weeks -- both after night
fasting and after all meals, you might be able to have a pretty good idea of
what an HbA1c test result would be if you asked the doctor to test.

Here is a site that would allow you to converts a 14-day average meter
reading to an HbA1c value.
This is what I used at the time I was waiting for a Dr. visit, and wanted to
guess at how I was doing. It turned out to be only 2 tenths of a percent off
the mark. I usually take readings upon waking in the a.m., then 2 hrs after
B, L & Dinner.

http://www.rajeun.net/HbA1c_glucose.html

I'm a type 2, diagnosed 2 years ago. I've found that Dr. Bernstein's
estimate of "normal" levels of BG are much stricter then the lab's and the
ADA and I'd take his word over theirs any time. The lab says I'm normal if I
have an HbA1c under 7, whereas Dr. B. wants it somewhere around 4.6 or 4.9.
I have all 3 editions of his book "The Diabetes Solution" and try to follow
his 6-12-12 carb regimen every day. Based on his strict estimate of normal
sugars, I probably was diabetic 4 or 5 years ago.

My personal opinion is that you should (1) Immediately buy a copy of his
book and read it and, (2) based on the family history, have the doctor test
her.

Good luck and I hope I may have helped.

I'm curious about something: Why is it necessary to draw blood to
measure this stuff? Isn't there a urine test, or is that not as
accurate? I'm just surprised they haven't come up with something
simpler, for a test that has to be done so often.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Aaron Baugher wrote:
:: I'm curious about something: Why is it necessary to draw blood to
:: measure this stuff? Isn't there a urine test, or is that not as
:: accurate? I'm just surprised they haven't come up with something
:: simpler, for a test that has to be done so often.

Sugar doesn't show up in urine until you're in big trouble. Please don't go
there.

The pricking is a pain, but you can handle it.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sugar doesn't show up in urine until you're in big trouble. Please don't
go there.

Oh great. I was at the walk-in clinic last week because I got sick after
hours...they said there was sugar in my urine, that's a first for me. My
glucose levels were normal in some blood work I'd had done in February (I've
been quite ill since December), but they didn't do a glucose tolerance test
or anything. Should I make an appointment with my doctor about this? The
clinic doctor didn't seem too concerned...
--
Sherry
lowcarb.owly.net