Q about DA 10 Speed

It is made of $100 bills and sewn plantinum string. This gives you a weight loss of about .25%, an uncessary gear, a much lighter wallet, and a temporary ego boost; until you find out they don't make you faster at all. Then you just realize you just feel into shimano marketing hype and your bike has more theft value.

Eric "Ride what you have but, if you really don't like it sned it to me" St. Mary

Catdaily-<< Someone on our ride on Saturday said that if you need a new bottom bracket for whatever
reason with the new DA 10 speed, that you'd have to replace the entire crank. Has anyone else heard
this or does it make any sense? >><BR><BR>

Not so. You can replace only the two spin in bearings that the crank shaft rests in. Already been a
'mini-recall' for XTR with 'improved' bearings. Hopefully that will get to DA 10s cranks as well. No
idea how much these will be.

Cat<< I know that the axle is permanently attached to the right crank, but how does the rest of the
assemble work? >><BR><BR>

Two bearings spin in, big shaft that is attached to crank goes thru, pinch bolt on left side.
Included spacers make up for irregularity of BB shells. Kinda complicated, marketing says it's
'stiffer' altho when applied to a crank is mostly fluff. Gonna be expensive, even when considering
it's a crank and BB($400+).

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Thanks Peter! It's not for me, though, as I have already made the switch to Campy. I got sick of
replacing right STI levers. The hub wants a new bike, and he likes his DA ;<

Cat

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Catdaily-<< Someone on our ride on Saturday said that if you need a new

bottom

Quoted message said:

bracket for whatever reason with the new DA 10 speed, that you'd have to replace

the

Quoted message said:

entire crank. Has anyone else heard this or does it make any sense?

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Not so. You can replace only the two spin in bearings that the crank shaft rests in. Already been
a 'mini-recall' for XTR with 'improved' bearings. Hopefully that will get to DA 10s cranks as
well. No idea how much these

will

Quoted message said:

be.

Cat<< I know that the axle is permanently attached to the right crank, but how does the rest of
the assemble work? >><BR><BR>

Two bearings spin in, big shaft that is attached to crank goes thru, pinch

bolt

Quoted message said:

on left side. Included spacers make up for irregularity of BB shells.

Kinda

Quoted message said:

complicated, marketing says it's 'stiffer' altho when applied to a crank

is

Quoted message said:

mostly fluff. Gonna be expensive, even when considering it's a crank and BB($400+).

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Cat Dailey
Someone on our ride on Saturday said that if you need a new bottom bracket for whatever reason with
the new DA 10 speed, that you'd have to replace the entire crank. Has anyone else heard this or does
it make any sense? I know that the axle is permanently attached to the right crank, but how does the
rest of the assemble work?

Thanks, Cat

Bull****! That guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Someone on our ride on Saturday said that if you need a new bottom bracket for whatever reason
with the new DA 10 speed, that you'd have to replace the entire crank. Has anyone else heard this
or does it make any sense? I know that the axle is permanently attached to the right crank, but
how does the rest of the assemble work?

Thanks, Cat

Technically, yes you would have to replace the entire crank, except the bearings, if you managed to
destroy the bottom bracket spindle. I suppose you could actually snap the spindle. I have heard of
normal tapered bottom bracket spindles breaking. Mostly in the past though, not recently. If somehow
you stripped off all of the teeth on the non-drive side of the Shimano bottom bracket spindle(pipe)
then you would likely have to get a whole new crank.

But with bottom brackets, the bearings are the most likely thing to fail. Not worth spending time
worrying about the actual spindle/pipe being destroyed. The bearings on the Shimano Dura Ace
crankset are separate from the crank. You have the two bearings and their cups which screw into the
bottom bracket shell on either side. And the drive arm with the pipe permanently attached. And the
non-drive arm. I am sure for a hefty price Shimano will sell you new bearings if you destroy them.

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt - J. Caesar

(Russell Seaton) said:

I am sure for a hefty price Shimano will sell you new bearings if you destroy them.

Preliminary information suggests that the retail price for 7800 series bottom brackets will be under
forty bucks. No doubt some here on rbt will regard this figure as unconscionably "hefty" while
others believe it so low as to be further proof of Shimano's predatory schemes for total global
domination.
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John Dacey said:

No doubt some here on rbt will regard this figure as unconscionably "hefty" while others believe
it so low as to be further proof of Shimano's predatory schemes for total global domination.

:-))

Derk

russel-<< But with bottom brackets, the bearings are the most likely thing to fail. >><BR><BR>

This is what concerns me. If one of the bearings fail, siezes, will it etch or reder unsafe the BB
spindle? It is aluminum...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

De gustibus aut bene, aut nihil. - Anton Chekhov

Quoted message said:

This is what concerns me. If one of the bearings fail, siezes, will it etch or reder unsafe the BB
spindle? It is aluminum...

Raising a spectre of doubt regarding spindle failure for this Shimano part appears to be without
merit at this time. Would you similarly caution users of current generation Campagnolo 9/10 speed
hubs because their axles are aluminum and bearings vulnerable to deterioration?

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(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

John Dacey-<< Raising a spectre of doubt regarding spindle failure for this Shimano part appears to
be without merit at this time. >><BR><BR>

Why is that? Have you installed the XTR cranks? Have you seen the clearance issues and can't you
see an issue here?

What "clearance issue"?

Quoted message said:

John Dacey<< Would you similarly caution users of current generation Campagnolo 9/10 speed hubs
because their axles are aluminum and bearings vulnerable to deterioration? >><BR><BR>

Yep-except the hubs you mention have been out for almost 5 years so there is some experience here.
The XTR crank is brand new and the DA one is even newer.

That's partly my point: you're casting a pall of mistrust over a product with which you as yet
have no personal experience. I haven't seen any documented problems of "etched" or otherwise
compromised new XTR crank spindles caused by bearing failures. If you can point to where they may
be found, please share that information. If you've personally seen this, why have you kept it
secret until now? (Sometimes I miss the rbt "crack-of-the-week" photo contest, so if you've got
pix, even better).

Quoted message said:

A call to shimano, USA yielded a 'if the bearing fails and siezes, the crank won't turn', which is
nonsense, since the celarance isn't that small, between the XTR BB spindle and bearing.

If a bearing goes off, replace it. Why overcomplicate this matter with supremely unlikely "what if"
questions? Nothing you've written here has given me reason for undue concern about spindle integrity
for 7800 model cranks.

Quoted message said:

It's a question, concern I have, with no help from shimano.

Help with what? I don't see that you've identified any specific instance of failure for them to
address. Until you do that, your comments remain nothing more than unsubstantiated insinuations.
Little wonder the Shimano tech guy you phoned was reduced to giving a nonsensical answer to dispose
of a crank call.

Quoted message said:

John Dacey-<< De gustibus aut bene, aut nihil. - Anton Chekhov >><BR><BR>

Geeez, at least Sheldon uses English, Peter (Qui si parla Campagnolo) "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

What a cutup.

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Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

John-<< I haven't seen any documented problems of "etched" or otherwise compromised new XTR crank
spindles caused by bearing failures. >><BR><BR>

Use your imagination, I know you have one.

Peter, I've tried to envision the scenario you describe, but it pushes my imagination to a point
within a millimeter of hallucination. If installed and maintained in a manner consistent with the
cost of this crank, I think the doomsday bearing scenario you describe has insufficiently low
likelihood to justify your caveat about spindle scoring. With ten-speed groups scheduled to arrive
in the coming weeks, I guess time will tell if you're right.

Quoted message said:

C'mon John, you just enjoy throwing stones at me, admit it, as I'm sure you will in your next post,
which will be in Latin, I'm sure.

Was "stoning" a practice common in the time of the Caesars? I'd have thought they'd prefer something
a little more high-tech.

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twenty-first year. Our catalog of track equipment: eighth year online
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Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

russel-<< But with bottom brackets, the bearings are the most likely thing to fail. >><BR><BR>

This is what concerns me. If one of the bearings fail, siezes, will it etch or reder unsafe the BB
spindle? It is aluminum...

Not to open old wounds from the flogging this issue was given earlier in the month, but I got my
first delivery of Dura-Ace 10 speed parts today. The model 7800 crankbearing spindle is steel,
not aluminum.
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I have heard contradicting info regarding the 10sp-hubs also being 9-speed compatible. Any final
word on this?

"John Dacey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Juvenal

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

russel-<< But with bottom brackets, the bearings are the most likely

thing to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fail. >><BR><BR>

This is what concerns me. If one of the bearings fail, siezes, will it

etch or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

reder unsafe the BB spindle? It is aluminum...

Not to open old wounds from the flogging this issue was given earlier in the month, but I got my
first delivery of Dura-Ace 10 speed parts today. The model 7800 crankbearing spindle is steel, not
aluminum.
-------------------------------
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equipment: eighth year online. businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗

Fama volat. - Vergil

in rec.bicycles.tech 'basjan said:

I have heard contradicting info regarding the 10sp-hubs also being 9-speed compatible. Any final
word on this?

Of all the 10 speed parts, I didn't receive the 7800 hubs with yesterday's delivery, so I can't
comment on this.

The 10 speed cassette did slide onto an Ultegra (6500) hub I tried, as well as onto a
"Shimano-compatible" aftermarket wheel I had at hand (Ksyrium Elite) albeit with what I regarded as
a generous amount of slop between the splines of the freehub and sprockets. I'd describe it as a
class B fit.

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year. Our catalog of track equipment: eighth year online
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