"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat anchor and take up shuffleboard.
Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system?
With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to eat more goodies!
When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer. And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer. And from the tone of your report he is mostly miserable with everybody.
Really. I admire a piece of equipment in his shop and he starts [censored] out of the gate. I cannot do business in that type of atmosphere.
"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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news:[email hidden]...
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>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >> anchor and take up shuffleboard. > Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. > Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and usesa > lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system? > With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to > fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was > undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. > CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying > it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's > energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to > eat more goodies! When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him.He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
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Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
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Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing attachment and that [censored]'s gone. Sounds like a really [censored] shop to me-- let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from scratch either?
Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro custom Ti Seven frame?
That's pretty much what Seven will do and send it back to you. Check out the thread from a few weeks ago where Andy Muzi needed semi- horizontal rear dropouts on a mixte Rivendell frame. Did he waste the customer's time and send it back to Rivendell? No! Yellow Jersey, unlike the Dutch shop you mentioned, is competent--he brazed in some new drops himself, color matched the paint, sprayed the drops to match, and got the customer out the door in a reasonable amount of time. Sending a frame back stateside to have a pump peg removed?? You've got to be joking--did Seven claim that it was anchored with special Seven materials only removable at their factory??
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You must have low quality/aesthetic standards.
No, looks like you bought into the Seven marketing hype. You use a cutoff disc, grind clean, and finish the spot to whatever level of buff that particular ti finish has. There's nothing magical about a Seven frame other than their glossy brochures.
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And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
Perhaps--but if they need to send a frame overseas to remove a pump peg--they're not a full service shop.
"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat > anchor and take up shuffleboard. Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system?
With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to eat more goodies!
When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
He did. I know that guy.
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And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
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And from the tone of your report he is mostly miserable with everybody.
He is a very relaxed guy.
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Really. I admire a piece of equipment in his shop and he starts [censored] out of the gate. I cannot do business in that type of atmosphere.
If you don't want to do business with him, he probably don't want business with you either. No problem. They have the best wrench in the area. The only guy I let service my bikes. No piercings or tattoo's ;-)
On Jun 6, 1:47 am, "Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]> wrote: > "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >>> anchor and take up shuffleboard. >> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. >> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a >> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system? >> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to >> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was >> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. >> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying >> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's >> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to >> eat more goodies! > When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build > them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am > admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He > looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. > 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. > 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't > want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he > said. > 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . > 'Three months'. > 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' > 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for > that'. > Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg.... > Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys. Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing attachment and that [censored]'s gone. Sounds like a really [censored] shop to me-- let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from scratch either?
Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro custom Ti Seven frame?
That's pretty much what Seven will do and send it back to you. Check out the thread from a few weeks ago where Andy Muzi needed semi- horizontal rear dropouts on a mixte Rivendell frame. Did he waste the customer's time and send it back to Rivendell? No! Yellow Jersey, unlike the Dutch shop you mentioned, is competent--he brazed in some new drops himself, color matched the paint, sprayed the drops to match, and got the customer out the door in a reasonable amount of time. Sending a frame back stateside to have a pump peg removed?? You've got to be joking--did Seven claim that it was anchored with special Seven materials only removable at their factory??
Well no way I would let Andy braze, grind or spray paint on a brand new frame. I would wait another three weeks, like this customer. Maybe we are more patient in The Old World.
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You must have low quality/aesthetic standards.
No, looks like you bought into the Seven marketing hype. You use a cutoff disc, grind clean, and finish the spot to whatever level of buff that particular ti finish has. There's nothing magical about a Seven frame other than their glossy brochures.
It wasn't my frame so I'm not bought into the Seven marketing hype. The welds are beautiful though but their frames are to expensive for what they offer.
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And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
Perhaps--but if they need to send a frame overseas to remove a pump peg--they're not a full service shop.
Boy you are wrong again, but lets leave it here. It was just an anecdote
"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >> anchor and take up shuffleboard. > Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. > Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and > uses a > lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge > system? > With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to > fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was > undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. > CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like > paying > it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's > energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they > get to > eat more goodies!
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Lou Holtman said:
When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg.... Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
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landotter said:
Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing attachment and that [censored]'s gone. Sounds like a really [censored] shop to me-- let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from scratch either?
Lou Holtman said:
Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro custom Ti Seven frame? You must have low quality/aesthetic standards. And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
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landotter said:
Three months waiting for the customer because they don't know how to operate tools? Very lame.
Lou Holtman said:
It took Seven three months to build and ship that custom frame to the Netherlands. Three weeks return time to get rid of the pump peg and finishing the bike.
I'm with Lou. Shop did the right thing. On custom work, it's either right or it is not. Period. We've been in roughly the same position ourselves and made the exact same decision. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1 April, 1971 ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
> "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >>> anchor and take up shuffleboard. >> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. >> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and >> uses a >> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge >> system? >> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to >> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was >> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. >> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like >> paying >> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's >> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they >> get to >> eat more goodies!
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"Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]> wrote: > When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to > build > them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am > admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to > him. He > looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it > back'. > 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. > 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't > want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that > problem' he > said. > 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the > Netherlands . > 'Three months'. > 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' > 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for > that'. > Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg.... > Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
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landotter said:
Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing attachment and that [censored]'s gone. Sounds like a really [censored] shop to me-- let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from scratch either?
Lou Holtman said:
Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro custom Ti Seven frame? You must have low quality/aesthetic standards. And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
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landotter said:
Three months waiting for the customer because they don't know how to operate tools? Very lame.
Lou Holtman said:
It took Seven three months to build and ship that custom frame to the Netherlands. Three weeks return time to get rid of the pump peg and finishing the bike.
I'm with Lou. Shop did the right thing. On custom work, it's either right or it is not. Period. We've been in roughly the same position ourselves and made the exact same decision.
Do you speak with the customer first? One case the customer directly specified no pump peg; another case the option was not discussed.
"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >> anchor and take up shuffleboard. > Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. > > Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a > lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system? > > With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to > fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was > undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. > > CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying > it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's > energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to > eat more goodies! When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
He did. I know that guy.
OK.
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And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
But the tone of your report: first words are "Those American morons..." Now you say everyone involved is a nice guy, but the tone of the original report is different.
We would need to see every bit of paperwork to understand this.
"Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >> anchor and take up shuffleboard. > Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. > > Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a > lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system? > > With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to > fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was > undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. > > CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying > it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's > energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to > eat more goodies! When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he said. 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . 'Three months'. 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for that'. Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
He did. I know that guy.
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And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
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And from the tone of your report he is mostly miserable with everybody.
He is a very relaxed guy.
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Really. I admire a piece of equipment in his shop and he starts [censored] out of the gate. I cannot do business in that type of atmosphere.
If you don't want to do business with him, he probably don't want business with you either. No problem. They have the best wrench in the area. The only guy I let service my bikes. No piercings or tattoo's ;-)
I said I do not do business in the kind of atmosphere the original report suggests; not the revised old-world craftsmanship atmosphere. What is it to you what the "American morons" did unless you share a prejudice? The welds are still beautiful. And do you really care about his business problems? I go into a shop with my own problems and unless they concern the proprietor I keep schtum; I expect him to return the favor.
Carry a tube to replace a punctured tube, a tube to replace the buggered up replacement tube, and a third tube for back up. Oh, yes, and the patch kit.
>> "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard. >>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. >>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and >>> uses a >>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge >>> system? >>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to >>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was >>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. >>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like >>> paying >>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's >>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they >>> get to >>> eat more goodies! > "Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to >> build >> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am >> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to >> him. He >> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it >> back'. >> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. >> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't >> want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that >> problem' he >> said. >> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the >> Netherlands . >> 'Three months'. >> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' >> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for >> that'. >> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg.... >> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys. landotter wrote: > Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing > attachment and that [censored]'s gone. Sounds like a really [censored] shop to me-- > let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from > scratch either?
Lou Holtman said:
Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro custom Ti Seven frame? You must have low quality/aesthetic standards. And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build. landotter wrote: > Three months waiting for the customer because they > don't know how to operate tools? Very lame.
Lou Holtman said:
It took Seven three months to build and ship that custom frame to the Netherlands. Three weeks return time to get rid of the pump peg and finishing the bike.
I'm with Lou. Shop did the right thing. On custom work, it's either right or it is not. Period. We've been in roughly the same position ourselves and made the exact same decision.
Do you speak with the customer first? One case the customer directly specified no pump peg;
It was. The pumpeg checkbox in the orde form was NOT checked.
In article <[email hidden]>, "Lou Holtman" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat >>> anchor and take up shuffleboard. >> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion. >> >> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a >> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system? >> >> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to >> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was >> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons. >> >> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying >> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's >> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to >> eat more goodies! > When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build > them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am > admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He > looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'. > 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied. > 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't > want that little [censored], so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he > said. > 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands . > 'Three months'. > 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?' > 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for > that'. > Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg.... > > Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys. From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
He did. I know that guy.
OK.
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And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
But the tone of your report: first words are "Those American morons..." Now you say everyone involved is a nice guy, but the tone of the original report is different.
The guy was [censored] at that moment, you can understand that can't you? I would and if you are [censored] you say stupid things sometimes. He would not say that to a complete stranger of course. I'm am a good customer there.
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We would need to see every bit of paperwork to understand this.
No it isn't that important. Like I sain it was just an anecdote.
