POS Bent

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Douglas <[email hidden]> wrote:
: In article <[email hidden]>, JD Ami <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> Actually, Andrew, bikes that are 'real' recumbents likely will never

catch

Quoted message said:

:> fire in the marketplace, IMHO, because of tricky (read, potentially

dangerous to

Quoted message said:

:> neophyte riders) handling

: I don't really buy that. I've never met a sould who couldn't ride a Bike E the very first time
: they tried.

Of course, BikeEs, Tour Easys and the like are not "real recumbents" to someone like us European
elite sports racer bent riders 😉

: Some bents are indeed not for newbies, but many, many of them are very user-friendly.

People can learn to ride moderate bents like Vision R40 (entry level, BB near the level of seat
bottom) in a day. It took them more than that to learn how to ride uprights. Where's the catch?

Most of us started on uprights then went to bents, had we started with bents first my guess is the
learning curve would have been longer. I am of the opinion that my Vision isn't as stable as a
standard upright which would make it slightly harder for a newbie to learn.

It was easy for me to move from the Vision to a Baron but the odd thing is people who rode my Vision
can't get used to the Baron 🙂

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

People can learn to ride moderate bents like Vision R40 (entry level, BB near the level of seat
bottom) in a day. It took them more than that to learn how to ride uprights. Where's the catch?

The catch is that if you buy a bike at a LBS, you at least stand a chance of having a helpful
salesperson get you going on it. If you buy a bike at a *mart, you take it out to the parking lot,
put it in the back of your SUV/minivan, take it home and you're on your own. Show a TOTAL newbie a
Vision and give him/her no advice, and it's unlikely they'd be comfortable with the purchase of such
a bike that quickly.

Quoted message said:

It could be a sales and marketing problem, but it doesn't mean these bikes wouldn't be suitable
for newbies.

Were you thinking of things like starting and stopping in everyday traffic?

More just getting going in the first place. Bikes like the EZ-1 and BikeE are really great
introductions to recumbents because the learning curve is so short and shallow. Once you've ridden a
Bike E around the parking lot a few times, you can probably handle something like a Vision. But
*mart buyers don't have that opportunity.

When I talk about bikes that are not suitable for newbies, I'm referring to things like the
Wishbone. I bought one at the end of my first year, upgrading from a Linear CLWB. When I first test-
rode it I had about five months of experience on bents and about 1000 miles. Nevertheless, I dumped
it. And it's not a tricky bike to handle...it's just that the laid-back position and high BB (7"
above the seat) was so radically different from the low-bb, upright position of the Linear.

Regarding the European folks cited who were more comfortable with low, high BB bikes, IMHO they're
the exception. Here in the US, the three questions EVERYONE asks are:

1) Is it hard to ride?
2) How much does it cost?

and the kicker that shows where the average Joe's head is at...

3) Aren't you worried about being seen?

People ask the latter even when you're riding a relatively tall, upright recumbent. The last time
someone asked me that I was on a RANS V2, practically looking the guy in the eye. When I'm on my
Pharobike, the reaction is usually that it's way too low and small to be safe. (With no guidance or
advice to the contrary, would someone like that buy a low bike at a *mart? I doubt it.)

There is something to this concern, IMO. US drivers love vehicles the size of apartment blocks, and
many European drivers are far more skilled and safe than the typical US driver.

"Andrew Douglas" skrev...

Quoted message said:

1) Is it hard to ride?
2) How much does it cost?

and the kicker that shows where the average Joe's head is at...

3) Aren't you worried about being seen?

Add "Isn't it uncomfortable?" plus a sceptical look when you tell them no and its the same here
in Yurrup.

Regarding 3) I usually tell them the real problem is drivers that don't look at all and that I get
just as many close calls on my old Raleigh DF. (Head 180 cm up in the air) This usually earns me
another of those sceptical looks but its true.

I started out on a semilow SWB btw and apart from the first trip getting the hang of the balance and
turning there were no problems. On the other hand I've seen people weaving like crazy and almost
dropping my TE-clone on some testruns. Probably more to do with who you are than what you ride.

Mikael

Andrew Douglas said:

I don't really buy that. I've never met a sould who couldn't ride a Bike E the very first time they
tried. Some bents are indeed not for newbies, but many, many of them are very user-friendly.

The shop wouldn't let me ride the Stinger until I'd tried some higher bikes to get the feel of it. I
never had a problem with any of them. An hour after riding my first recumbent, I was going fast on
the Stinger. I reckon that it's partly down to the bike and partly that some people naturally take
to it while others don't. But I am just guessing.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Andrew Douglas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

People can learn to ride moderate bents like Vision R40 (entry level, BB near the level of seat
bottom) in a day. It took them more than that to learn how to ride uprights. Where's the catch?

The catch is that if you buy a bike at a LBS, you at least stand a chance of having a helpful
salesperson get you going on it. If you buy a bike at a *mart, you take it out to the parking lot,
put it in the back of your SUV/minivan, take it home and you're on your own. Show a TOTAL newbie a
Vision and give him/her no advice, and it's unlikely they'd be comfortable with the purchase of
such a bike that quickly.

Quoted message said:

It could be a sales and marketing problem, but it doesn't mean these bikes wouldn't be suitable
for newbies.

Were you thinking of things like starting and stopping in everyday traffic?

More just getting going in the first place. Bikes like the EZ-1 and BikeE are really great
introductions to recumbents because the learning curve is so short and shallow. Once you've ridden
a Bike E around the parking lot a few times, you can probably handle something like a Vision. But
*mart buyers don't have that opportunity.

When I talk about bikes that are not suitable for newbies, I'm referring to things like the
Wishbone. I bought one at the end of my first year, upgrading from a Linear CLWB. When I first test-
rode it I had about five months of experience on bents and about 1000 miles. Nevertheless, I
dumped it. And it's not a tricky bike to handle...it's just that the laid-back position and high
BB (7" above the seat) was so radically different from the low-bb, upright position of the Linear.

Regarding the European folks cited who were more comfortable with low, high BB bikes, IMHO they're
the exception. Here in the US, the three questions EVERYONE asks are:

1) Is it hard to ride?
2) How much does it cost?

and the kicker that shows where the average Joe's head is at...

3) Aren't you worried about being seen?

People ask the latter even when you're riding a relatively tall, upright recumbent. The last time
someone asked me that I was on a RANS V2, practically looking the guy in the eye. When I'm on my
Pharobike, the reaction is usually that it's way too low and small to be safe. (With no guidance
or advice to the contrary, would someone like that buy a low bike at a *mart? I doubt it.)

There is something to this concern, IMO. US drivers love vehicles the size of apartment blocks,
and many European drivers are far more skilled and safe than the typical US driver.

Excellent post Andrew. I agree with everything you say.

There is a bike shop in Sioux Falls, South Dakota that recently acquired the RANS line and he simply
can't sell them. Sioux Falls is a fairly major metro and has lots of other bike shops but he is the
only one carrying any recumbents. He has had them now for the season and he is extremely doubtful if
he will continue to carry them.

Let's face it, recumbents are hard to sell for any number of reasons. Those of you who think that
high low racers, high BB bikes will ever sell are living in la-la land. I consider the RANS line of
bikes to be as mainstream as you can get. If they don't sell, nothing will.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Mikael Seierup said:

Quoted message said:

1) Is it hard to ride?
2) How much does it cost?

and the kicker that shows where the average Joe's head is at...

3) Aren't you worried about being seen?

Only had "being seen" problem when I DIDN'T wear my Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Special and magnum
calibers. Cops, especially, noticed it and once in a while pulled me over. As soon as I showed my
"concealed carry" permit, even though it wasn't, they waved me on my way. Most chuckled and
mentioned anyone trying to hit me as having a death wish. I'd say blowing the engine all to hell was
a better deterrent. Kinda hard to drive over someone with a collection of broken engine parts all
seized up!

Edward Dolan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Let's face it, recumbents are hard to sell for any number of reasons. Those of you who think that
: high low racers, high BB bikes will ever sell are living in la-la land. I consider the RANS line
: of bikes to be as mainstream as you can get. If they don't sell, nothing will.

AFAIK there is nobody with a low racer in Finland. M5 Shock Proof and Optima Baron (seat height is
30 cm so it's really a semi-lowracer) are as close as it gets. It seems to be all kinds of touring
bents that sell... trikes are popular too, there are even rumours of a Trice Micro.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ [email hidden]