Pondering fruit

Luna wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Mirek Fidler <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::: Luna wrote:
::::: I've never really understood the insulin response thingy. I know
::::: it has something to do with making you hungrier, right?
:::::
::::
:::: In short, insulin will convert your HIGH blood glucose into fat
:::: while lowering it. So you get fat and hungry at the same time.
:::: (low BG makes you hungry).
::::
:::: OTOH, it is quite unlikely that one orange would drive your BG high
:::: enough. Personally, I have stopped caring about fruits in my LC woe
:::: long time ago🙂 For me, it is no sugar, no grains, no potatoes, no
:::: rice. Fruits are OK🙂
:::
::: For some people fruit will have very little effect on insulin
::: levels.
:::
::::
:::: Mirek
::
:: I don't know if it does or not for me. Since I've had periods lately
:: where I've just been all "screw it" and have eaten whatever I wanted,
:: I've noticed that some foods are satisfying at reasonable portions,
:: and some are hard to stop eating, even when I'm full to bursting.
:: The carb count of the particular food seems to have nothing to do
:: with it. Pepperoni, cheese, olives, and all kinds of nuts are danger
:: foods for me, even though they're not particularly high-carb.

Whenever I get the "screw it" attitude, I can overeat anything, even stuff I
don't particularly like that much. Of course, I'm much more likely to
overeat my trigger foods.

Unfortunately, I only have one pic of me at 367 lbs, and it's a mug shot.
But at least looking at my really fat face helps to jarr me back to reality!

So is
:: the high-carb junk I used to eat, like chips and candy. Some
:: high-carb non-junk is a no-no, like corn, rice, and wheat.
:: Apparently oranges are ok. Made my stomach stop growling, didn't
:: even think about food until 6 hours later.
::
:: Pre-lc, I hardly ever ate fruit, so I'm not trying to "get away with"
:: eating it because I love it or something. I was just surprised that
:: it satiated me, kept me satiated, and didn't make me sluggish like
:: my usual lunch of stir-fry or salad with chicken.

Perhaps you give too much credit to the food, in this case. Perhaps you
just needed a little something....that's why the smaller, more frequent
meals work well, IMO. A single orange probaby doesn't have enough calories
to cause significant BG swings to result in problems. Two or more might
have, though.

It depends.

--
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

"Bunky42" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4qh_d.13880$ZE5.3459@fed1read03...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so great
if you're trying to lose bodyfat.

So you are saying bike riding won't help you lose fat?

--
The internet has a subset of people that attempt to boost their self
esteem by belittling people around them.
Some people call it "flaming" but in reality it's just idiots showing
their asses in public.

Bunky42 said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so

great if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you're trying to lose bodyfat.

So you are saying bike riding won't help you lose fat?

Undulating adipose + bicycling + fruit = still fat
Undulating adipose - bicycling + fruit = fatter still
Undulating adipose + bicycling - fruit = six-pack abs
Six-pack abs + bicycling + fruit = no fat - bonking
Six-pack abs - bicycling + fruit = undulating adipose
Six-pack abs + bicycling - fruit = less fat + bonking

Former undulating adipose + bicycling + fruit - whining = priceless

warehouse wrote:
:: Bunky42 wrote:
::: JC Der Koenig wrote:
:::: Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so
:::: great if you're trying to lose bodyfat.
::::
::: So you are saying bike riding won't help you lose fat?
:::
::
:: Undulating adipose + bicycling + fruit = still fat
:: Undulating adipose - bicycling + fruit = fatter still
:: Undulating adipose + bicycling - fruit = six-pack abs
:: Six-pack abs + bicycling + fruit = no fat - bonking
:: Six-pack abs - bicycling + fruit = undulating adipose
:: Six-pack abs + bicycling - fruit = less fat + bonking
::
:: Former undulating adipose + bicycling + fruit - whining = priceless

🙂

I think the trick lies simply in not over doing it. For me, that means about
40 to 50 miles (or less) per ride. If it stay under that, then I don't need
many carbs and don't have hypo events after the ride. Once I start getting
up over 60 miles per ride, things start getting strange. I'm going to delay
century training until late summer and focus on riding with intensity (i.e.
speed) on shorter rides. I want to do several centuries this fall, though.
That's my plan for this year so we'll see how it works.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Perhaps you give too much credit to the food, in this case. Perhaps you
just needed a little something....that's why the smaller, more frequent
meals work well, IMO. A single orange probaby doesn't have enough calories
to cause significant BG swings to result in problems. Two or more might
have, though.

I think fruit would help logistically with eating smaller more frequent
meals, since it's so portable. One of the challenges of my job is no
access to a fridge or microwave. I usually try to just get through it
without eating, but when we serve the kids their high-carb snacks I more
often than not fall to temptation. Either way I end up ravenous by the
time I get home and I eat too much at night. We're actually not
supposed to eat in front of them unless we're eating the same snack they
are (to avoid having them beg us for a bite of whatever we're having)
but I think my boss would make an exception for a piece of fruit, since
unfortunately most of them don't like fruit anyway. Even if she
doesn't, sneaking off to eat half an apple would be easier than sneaking
off to eat a salad.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:53:18 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>
wrote:
[cut]roger:

Quoted message said:

:::
::: What would nice is if you could figure it so that after you
::: finished your ride that liver glycogen would be depleted again.
::: It's, IMO, a tricky thing
::: because you need that power while riding and you certainly don't
::: want to risk bonking (a nightmare on a long hilly ride in summer!).
::: But after it's
::: over one needs (well, speaking for me) get back to the business of
::: LCing. It's why this year I'm going to do my best not to eat carbs
::: AFTER the ride.
:::
:::
:::

bob:

Quoted message said:

::
:: I think if you only eat fruit for long rides, chances are your liver
:: will be depleted. No carbs after the ride? Let me know how that
:: goes. Right now, I take in minor carbs before and after exercise and
:: none during because the length of my rides/weighlifting isn't long.

Don't worry, I'll be letting you know. I need someone to compare notes
with. Keep in mind that I'm talking about before fall riding, the period
during which I plan to ride short but more intensely. So I'm hoping to
balance the activity with food pre and during the ride, but not after. I
think it is very easy to overdo things AFTER the ride, when you feel it
is
time for a reward!

Plus, my goals are a bit different this year. Last year, it was about
proving to myself that I could even do a century. I've done that, so I
don't need to prove it again. However, this year, I would like to do it
faster. Also, I'd like to get the last 15 or so lbs off. Hopefully,
that
will make some difference going up those hills! 🙂

I also think that the 60 milers can tend to make one overeat. At 20
miles, I have no compunction to eat. At 60 miles, though, I'm starving
and it doesn't let up. Plus, 60+ miles makes me physicall exhausted. In
an effort to stay away sometimes, I'd turn to alcohol (which actually
keeps me awake as opposed to its supposed soporific effects). Beer has
way, way too many calories in it. I'm going to see what I can do to
lessen the amount I eat and to not turn to beer. Perhaps a nap might help
to refresh me, although I find it hard to nap. We'll see!

--
Bob in CT

Bob M wrote:
:: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:32:25 -0500, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Bob M wrote:
::::: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:46:59 -0500, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: JC Der Koenig wrote:
:::::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:::::::: news:[email hidden]...
::::::::: Mirek Fidler <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::::::: Luna wrote:
::::::::::: I've never really understood the insulin response thingy. I
::::::::::: know it has something to do with making you hungrier, right?
:::::::::::
::::::::::
:::::::::: In short, insulin will convert your HIGH blood glucose into
:::::::::: fat while lowering it. So you get fat and hungry at the same
:::::::::: time. (low BG makes you hungry).
::::::::::
:::::::::: OTOH, it is quite unlikely that one orange would drive your
:::::::::: BG high enough. Personally, I have stopped caring about
:::::::::: fruits in my LC woe long time ago🙂 For me, it is no sugar,
:::::::::: no grains, no potatoes, no rice. Fruits are OK🙂
:::::::::
::::::::: For some people fruit will have very little effect on insulin
::::::::: levels.
:::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: If you're trying to cut bodyfat, fruit may have a deleterious
:::::::: effect because it can refill liver glycogen, which means that
:::::::: muscle glycogen won't be depleted until the liver glycogen is
:::::::: used up.
::::::
:::::: Of course, and this is especially important to those on a LC woe
:::::: use a TKD
:::::: or CKD for various reasons.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: Depending on what your goal is, filling liver glycogen might not
::::: be bad. Last summer, I ate one to two pieces of fruit the day
::::: before I'd have a long bike ride (defined as at least 60 miles).
::::: Refilling liver glycogen seemed to help maintain power over long,
::::: hilly terrain.
:::
::: What would nice is if you could figure it so that after you
::: finished your ride that liver glycogen would be depleted again.
::: It's, IMO, a tricky thing
::: because you need that power while riding and you certainly don't
::: want to risk bonking (a nightmare on a long hilly ride in summer!).
::: But after it's
::: over one needs (well, speaking for me) get back to the business of
::: LCing. It's why this year I'm going to do my best not to eat carbs
::: AFTER the ride.
:::
:::
:::
::
:: I think if you only eat fruit for long rides, chances are your liver
:: will be depleted. No carbs after the ride? Let me know how that
:: goes. Right now, I take in minor carbs before and after exercise and
:: none during because the length of my rides/weighlifting isn't long.

Don't worry, I'll be letting you know. I need someone to compare notes
with. Keep in mind that I'm talking about before fall riding, the period
during which I plan to ride short but more intensely. So I'm hoping to
balance the activity with food pre and during the ride, but not after. I
think it is very easy to overdo things AFTER the ride, when you feel it is
time for a reward!

Plus, my goals are a bit different this year. Last year, it was about
proving to myself that I could even do a century. I've done that, so I
don't need to prove it again. However, this year, I would like to do it
faster. Also, I'd like to get the last 15 or so lbs off. Hopefully, that
will make some difference going up those hills! 🙂

Hi Luna,

My Fitday database says that a medium orange is only 12 net carbs. If your
day's total is under 50 carbs, I see no problem with it.

The change in appetite from carbs is a slow process. It might take a few
weeks of high carbs before one's "appestat" causes higher calorie
consumption.

While increased carbs can cause carb cravings, I don't think the appetite
increase from carbs is limited to carbs. Thus, after returning to carby
eating, one would likely eat more fat and protein calories too.

I used to have large glasses of orange juice, pre-LC. These days I skip all
fruit and take vitamin C.... YMMV

Cubit
311/184.9/165

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ok, so, if losing weight is more a matter of how much you eat than what
you eat, and low-carb is just a way to control appetite so that it is
easier to eat less, then is eating fruit really such a bad thing, if it
doesn't cause cravings for more carbs? After all, a piece of fruit is
usually low in calories, so if it replaces something higher calorie, one
could lose weight and still eat fruit, right?

I ask because today I ran out of time and didn't have lunch, and at work
we were giving the kids oranges for snack, and I was hungry, so I had
one. I was worried mostly that it would cause cravings for more carbs.
But, I didn't get cravings, in fact I felt satiated all the way until
dinner, and didn't even eat as much at dinner as I usually do.

I can think of lots of reasons to include fruit in my diet, and the only
reason not to was the possibility of increasing cravings, but since that
didn't happen now I'm wondering what other negatives I should be
concerned about. And no, JC, oranges are not why I got fat in the first
place.

"Bev-Ann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One medium apple has 21g carbs and 4g fibre. I do eat them *occasionally*
now that I'm in maintenance, and even have half a medium banana every now
and then. The OP is still in her weight-loss phase, though, so I wouldn't
recommend them for her. Berries, rhubarb, a small peach or nectarine,
etc.
are better choices. Clementine oranges are good too and are in season
now.

oh I understand... I thought they had more fiber.. oh well...I am still far
away from having an apple as well.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/02
Xavier 10/04

Goal 1- lose 20 lbs By May 1st (6# to go)

When you eat something with quickly processed carbs your body releases
insulin, that insulin lowers the blood sugar causing hunger. How big and
fast that reaction is relates to how hungry you will feel. Everybody will
react differently, the only way to know how something affects you is to try
it out.

According to FitDay a large orange (3-1/16" diameter) has 22 g. carb less 4
fiber, net 18, 86 calories. Not an outrageous amount unless you're at a
very low carb level.

In news:[email hidden],
Luna <[email hidden]> stated
| I've never really understood the insulin response thingy. I know it
| has something to do with making you hungrier, right?
|
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
|| There's also the matter of insulin response.
||
|| In the end though, yes, you can lose weight while eating fruit.
||
|| --
|| I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.
||
||
||
|| "Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| Ok, so, if losing weight is more a matter of how much you eat than
||| what you eat, and low-carb is just a way to control appetite so
||| that it is easier to eat less, then is eating fruit really such a
||| bad thing, if it doesn't cause cravings for more carbs? After all,
||| a piece of fruit is usually low in calories, so if it replaces
||| something higher calorie, one could lose weight and still eat
||| fruit, right?
|||
||| I ask because today I ran out of time and didn't have lunch, and at
||| work we were giving the kids oranges for snack, and I was hungry,
||| so I had one. I was worried mostly that it would cause cravings
||| for more carbs. But, I didn't get cravings, in fact I felt satiated
||| all the way until dinner, and didn't even eat as much at dinner as
||| I usually do.
|||
||| I can think of lots of reasons to include fruit in my diet, and the
||| only reason not to was the possibility of increasing cravings, but
||| since that didn't happen now I'm wondering what other negatives I
||| should be concerned about. And no, JC, oranges are not why I got
||| fat in the first place.

JC Der Koenig said:

It depends.

NO! if you ride 60 miles a day YOU WILL LOSE FAT!!!!

--
The internet has a subset of people that attempt to boost their self
esteem by belittling people around them.
Some people call it "flaming" but in reality it's just idiots showing
their asses in public.

Do you have any other pearls of wisdom?

--
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

"Bunky42" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:jGj_d.13902$ZE5.213@fed1read03...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

It depends.

NO! if you ride 60 miles a day YOU WILL LOSE FAT!!!!

--
The internet has a subset of people that attempt to boost their self
esteem by belittling people around them.
Some people call it "flaming" but in reality it's just idiots showing
their asses in public.

Bunky42 wrote:
:: JC Der Koenig wrote:
::: It depends.
:::
:: NO! if you ride 60 miles a day YOU WILL LOSE FAT!!!!

Not if you eat as a pig eats every day!

Seriously.

Cubit wrote:

::
:: The change in appetite from carbs is a slow process. It might take
:: a few weeks of high carbs before one's "appestat" causes higher
:: calorie consumption.

That's just not true.

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Quoted message said:

> Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so

great if you're trying to lose bodyfat.

JC Der Koenig said:

Do you have any other pearls of wisdom?

Your the one claiming you won't lose weight biking.
Most people can grasp exercise and weightloss. To bad that fact escapes
you. Math teacher lol!

http://www.healthstatus.com/cbc.html

--
The internet has a subset of people that attempt to boost their self
esteem by belittling people around them.
Some people call it "flaming" but in reality it's just idiots showing
their asses in public.

Bunky42 said:

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

> > Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so

great if you're trying to lose bodyfat.

JC Der Koenig said:

Do you have any other pearls of wisdom?

Your the one claiming you won't lose weight biking.
Most people can grasp exercise and weightloss. To bad that fact escapes
you. Math teacher lol!

http://www.healthstatus.com/cbc.html

Actually, I've found biking to be very good for losing weight (how many
fat bicyclists do you see?). The only caveat is when you get to the
really, really long rides; then you have to watch how much you eat. The
really long rides take so much physically out of you that you can be
starving.

--
Bob in CT

You're, not your.

--
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

"Bunky42" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:jHk_d.13907$ZE5.547@fed1read03...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

> > Which is great if you're training for long bike rides, but not so

great if you're trying to lose bodyfat.

JC Der Koenig said:

Do you have any other pearls of wisdom?

Your the one claiming you won't lose weight biking.
Most people can grasp exercise and weightloss. To bad that fact escapes
you. Math teacher lol!

http://www.healthstatus.com/cbc.html

--
The internet has a subset of people that attempt to boost their self
esteem by belittling people around them.
Some people call it "flaming" but in reality it's just idiots showing
their asses in public.

Weightloss and appetite this week has more to do with how you were eating
four weeks ago, than it does with what you ate this morning.

Many dieters fail as their short range interpretations of the process create
excuses for cheating and quitting.

Try not be myopic, Roger.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cubit wrote:

::
:: The change in appetite from carbs is a slow process. It might take
:: a few weeks of high carbs before one's "appestat" causes higher
:: calorie consumption.

That's just not true.

Perhaps that's the reason he's still struggling with that last 20 or 30
pounds.

--
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Weightloss and appetite this week has more to do with how you were eating
four weeks ago, than it does with what you ate this morning.

Many dieters fail as their short range interpretations of the process
create
excuses for cheating and quitting.

Try not be myopic, Roger.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cubit wrote:

::
:: The change in appetite from carbs is a slow process. It might take
:: a few weeks of high carbs before one's "appestat" causes higher
:: calorie consumption.

That's just not true.

Cubit said:

Weightloss and appetite this week has more to do with how you were
eating four weeks ago, than it does with what you ate this morning.

Nonsense on the four weeks. Probably true as far as weightloss is concerned
relative to this morning.

Quoted message said:

Many dieters fail as their short range interpretations of the process
create excuses for cheating and quitting.

I don't disagree with that.

Quoted message said:

Try not be myopic, Roger.

Disagreeing with you is myopic? Please! You simply make untrue, unfounded
statements.

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cubit wrote:

::
:: The change in appetite from carbs is a slow process. It might
:: take
:: a few weeks of high carbs before one's "appestat" causes higher
:: calorie consumption.

That's just not true.