Peaking

Do you have to win or do well in States in order to compete in Nationals? I'm a little concerned about tapering that week before States, and then having another low-volume week between States and Nationals.

L5 & L6 intervals are definitely good during the taper, because the shorter, intense workouts don't add as much overall load (have you watched the TSS discussions on the Power forum?) and can be recovered from fairly quickly (ie, typically within a day). I believe you'd want to increase your overall load week-on-week from what you've been doing up to this point, by extending the duration of your typical workouts or reducing rest days. I'd think longer L3 & L4 rides with highly variable pacing would be good during this period to increase volume. Then taper the volume just before States and throw in the mostly L5 & L6 sessions between States and Nationals.

Hopefully that's worth 2 cents. :o

frenchyge said:

Do you have to win or do well in States in order to compete in Nationals? I'm a little concerned about tapering that week before States, and then having another low-volume week between States and Nationals.

L5 & L6 intervals are definitely good during the taper, because the shorter, intense workouts don't add as much overall load (have you watched the TSS discussions on the Power forum?) and can be recovered from fairly quickly (ie, typically within a day). I believe you'd want to increase your overall load week-on-week from what you've been doing up to this point, by extending the duration of your typical workouts or reducing rest days. I'd think longer L3 & L4 rides with highly variable pacing would be good during this period to increase volume. Then taper the volume just before States and throw in the mostly L5 & L6 sessions between States and Nationals.

Hopefully that's worth 2 cents. :o

No qualifying is needed for nationals. I could just treat states as a training race. I was tapering before it under the assumption that a two week taper would be ideal.

I'm interested in when you think I should scale back on volume. Also, how soon up to nationals should I do the L5 and 6 sessions?

BTW, I have watched the TSS discussions, they fit in well with my plan. I also have been reading through the backlong of posts at the topica wattage list, and have found a few references to z5 and 6 workouts bringing along a peak-sometimes accidentally, even!

[quote="whoawhoa"]

My schedule now will look like this:
Race sat. and sun this weekend. .

QUOTE]

Which races are you doing this weekend?

[quote="HammerHead"]

whoawhoa said:

My schedule now will look like this:
Race sat. and sun this weekend. .

QUOTE]

Which races are you doing this weekend?

whoawhoa said:

NC UCI Races.

Are you talking about the cyclocroos UCI in Hendersonville?
Where you from, what class you racing? Im from s.carolina & will be there to race/ride in the B class, never done one before so it will total fun, I'll probable be the only B there on a MTB 😄 Im sure to get some looks 😄 But who cares I have nothing to loose.

jeff828 said:

Are you talking about the cyclocroos UCI in Hendersonville?
Where you from, what class you racing? Im from s.carolina & will be there to race/ride in the B class, never done one before so it will total fun, I'll probable be the only B there on a MTB 😄 Im sure to get some looks 😄 But who cares I have nothing to loose.

I actually race in B sometimes, but I'll be in jr 17-18 this weekend. Good luck, its fun stuff.

whoawhoa said:

No qualifying is needed for nationals. I could just treat states as a training race. I was tapering before it under the assumption that a two week taper would be ideal. I'm interested in when you think I should scale back on volume. Also, how soon up to nationals should I do the L5 and 6 sessions?

I don't have anything scientific to offer here, so purely opinion. 1 week is what I typically hear people mention as a taper period. Maybe that's just because most people are on a weekly training routine. States will definitely count toward your training volume for the week, whether you're riding to win, or just 'training'. I'd work hard through Wed before States, go slightly shorter on Thursday, take that Friday off (or spin lightly if that's your preference), and Monday after. Then daily *short* L5 or L6 sessions in the week between States and Nationals (as allowed by your travel) to count as your taper and keep the legs fresh. Personally, I'd take Friday off before Nationals, but I've heard that some people like to spin easy the day before a big race.

Congratulations! You've just received my 1000th post! 😎

frenchyge said:

I don't have anything scientific to offer here, so purely opinion. 1 week is what I typically hear people mention as a taper period. Maybe that's just because most people are on a weekly training routine. States will definitely count toward your training volume for the week, whether you're riding to win, or just 'training'. I'd work hard through Wed before States, go slightly shorter on Thursday, take that Friday off (or spin lightly if that's your preference), and Monday after. Then daily *short* L5 or L6 sessions in the week between States and Nationals (as allowed by your travel) to count as your taper and keep the legs fresh. Personally, I'd take Friday off before Nationals, but I've heard that some people like to spin easy the day before a big race.

Congratulations! You've just received my 1000th post! 😎

sounds pretty good to me. How "short" are we talking about for l5/6 efforts in the final week. Like a couple minutes of intensity?

Also, do you have any idea of the time between a workout and its adaptations? Like, if I do intervals today, about how long will it be before I am "fitter" due to them.

Jeff: Did you race? I did the B field on sunday and didn't see anyone on a mountain bike, but it was a pretty big field.

whoawhoa said:

Jeff: Did you race? I did the B field on sunday and didn't see anyone on a mountain bike, but it was a pretty big field.

Yes did race saturday only, only mtb on the start line, it was a blistering start, I was the guy way off the back popping wheelies, jumping stuff and sailing down the downhill, finished 2nd................to last 😄
Had fun but very hard, cant race that level with a mtb, georgia cup you can get away with it. Was it cold & windy or what, it was amazing to see how fast the elite guys are.

jeff828 said:

Yes did race saturday only, only mtb on the start line, it was a blistering start, I was the guy way off the back popping wheelies, jumping stuff and sailing down the downhill, finished 2nd................to last 😄
Had fun but very hard, cant race that level with a mtb, georgia cup you can get away with it. Was it cold & windy or what, it was amazing to see how fast the elite guys are.

WHAT! You raced Georgia Cup races on a mtb? :eek: I hope I misunderstood that.

Yeah, the weather was pretty nasty, but it was lots of fun. The elites are amazing, for sure. FiordiFruita (spell check) were hammering.

And the B race start was brutal Sunday as well. A call up was nearly essential to do well.

whoawhoa said:

I'm interested in your opinions on how to peak properly. Three weeks from this saturday I race cyclocross nationals, and obviously want to be in the best form possible.

My schedule now will look like this:
Race sat. and sun this weekend. Then take monday off, train tuesday-wednesday, off thursday, train friday-sat, off sunday, train monday-tuesday. I'm not sure what kinds of workouts to do these days. I'm leaning towards mostly z5 and 6 work, because I've heard that it is good for bringing on a peak. Not sure if I should throw any z4 work in there as well or not.

Then I will go easy the rest of that week until saturday, december 3rd, one week before nat's. That day i'll race states.

The rest of that week I'm not sure what i'll do, probably just ride easy with some short efforts to keep my legs open. Thursday i'll fly, friday i'll do openers while scouting the course, and saturday I race.

Thoughts?

Hope you had a good race yesterday, I was there as well (although not racing, unfortuantely). Some 'after the fact' thoughts:
A true taper (as opposed to a small redcution in training for the weekend's race) can last from 7-14 days with the over riding concern being that you are progressively reducing volume while maintaining intensity.
A cross race is a mix of Z3 to Z6 (RST zones) efforts, with very short moments in Z7, so any significant taper should include short 'versions' of all these intensities several times/week (not necessarily all on the same day).
These are somewhat general guidlelines because not everone has the same response to the same taper; whether for physical or psychological reasons. Consequently, keeping a journal is very important for looking back to see what you did and how your race played out.
btw, how did you do on sunday?

whoawhoa said:

I'm interested in your opinions on how to peak properly. Three weeks from this saturday I race cyclocross nationals, and obviously want to be in the best form possible.

My schedule now will look like this:
Race sat. and sun this weekend. Then take monday off, train tuesday-wednesday, off thursday, train friday-sat, off sunday, train monday-tuesday. I'm not sure what kinds of workouts to do these days. I'm leaning towards mostly z5 and 6 work, because I've heard that it is good for bringing on a peak. Not sure if I should throw any z4 work in there as well or not.

Then I will go easy the rest of that week until saturday, december 3rd, one week before nat's. That day i'll race states.

The rest of that week I'm not sure what i'll do, probably just ride easy with some short efforts to keep my legs open. Thursday i'll fly, friday i'll do openers while scouting the course, and saturday I race.

Thoughts?

Hope you had a good race yesterday, I was there as well (although not racing, unfortuantely). Some 'after the fact' thoughts:
A true taper (as opposed to a small redcution in training for the weekend's race) can last from 7-14 days with the over riding concern being that you are progressively reducing volume while maintaining intensity.
A cross race is a mix of Z3 to Z6 (RST zones) efforts, with very short moments in Z7, so any significant taper should include short 'versions' of all these intensities several times/week (not necessarily all on the same day).
These are somewhat general guidlelines because not everone has the same response to the same taper; whether for physical or psychological reasons. Consequently, keeping a journal is very important for looking back to see what you did and how your race played out.
btw, how did you do on sunday?

Smartt/RST said:

Hope you had a good race yesterday, I was there as well (although not racing, unfortuantely). Some 'after the fact' thoughts:
A true taper (as opposed to a small redcution in training for the weekend's race) can last from 7-14 days with the over riding concern being that you are progressively reducing volume while maintaining intensity.
A cross race is a mix of Z3 to Z6 (RST zones) efforts, with very short moments in Z7, so any significant taper should include short 'versions' of all these intensities several times/week (not necessarily all on the same day).
These are somewhat general guidlelines because not everone has the same response to the same taper; whether for physical or psychological reasons. Consequently, keeping a journal is very important for looking back to see what you did and how your race played out.
btw, how did you do on sunday?

Were you at the USGP in california? I was in Hendersonville, NC for the races there, I don't think I was very clear on that. Won 17-18 on saturday and was 3rd in Men's B on Sunday. Lots of fun.

I have some idea of how I have tapered in the past when I had good results. One question, though: If I were to start a taper from two weeks out, should intensit (as well as volume) be higher in the first taper week than the second?

For example, if I normally do 5x5 z5 intervals, then 10-14 days before the even I would still do 5x5 while 4-6 days before I may only do 3x3?

whoawhoa said:

Were you at the USGP in california? I was in Hendersonville, NC for the races there, I don't think I was very clear on that. Won 17-18 on saturday and was 3rd in Men's B on Sunday. Lots of fun.

Sounds like you did very well...and yeah, I was in San Francisco for the big dance...they were flyin'!

whoawhoa said:

I have some idea of how I have tapered in the past when I had good results. One question, though: If I were to start a taper from two weeks out, should intensit (as well as volume) be higher in the first taper week than the second?
For example, if I normally do 5x5 z5 intervals, then 10-14 days before the even I would still do 5x5 while 4-6 days before I may only do 3x3?

Yes - in the research done on tapering, an exponential taper was found to provide the best results/improvement in performance. In such a scenario, the first week of the taper would have a higher volume of training than the second. This is in contrast to a taper that cuts volume by some amount and keeps the volume the same up to the planned event; aka a 'step' taper.

Smartt/RST said:

Sounds like you did very well...and yeah, I was in San Francisco for the big dance...they were flyin'!
Yes - in the research done on tapering, an exponential taper was found to provide the best results/improvement in performance. In such a scenario, the first week of the taper would have a higher volume of training than the second. This is in contrast to a taper that cuts volume by some amount and keeps the volume the same up to the planned event; aka a 'step' taper.

Thanks for clearing this stuff up for me, I just have one more question (I think).

Starting tommorow, I'm planning on doing a 6ish day block of training before I start my taper. I realize it's a short period. To have any noticeable effect on fitness do I need to concentrate my work on one aspect of fitness? It seems to me like spreading myself to thin over such a short time would just reduce the benefits. I'm thinking of concentrating on v02max efforts in the hope that they will also bring up my threshold some as well....with maybe 1 threshold session later in the period. What do you think?