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Paris Roubaix bikes

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19 April 2007
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23 April 2007
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  1. Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/ballan_leroi_roubaix

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/hoste_ridley_roubaix

  2. email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Carbon fork steerer too:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tech/features/hoste_ridley_roubaix/gbHosteRidley14

    /s

  3. email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    Joseph

  4. email hidden said:


    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    The derailleur shim looks like folklore unless the seat tube is
    slightly not-round. The brakes are probably for extra tire
    clearance if it's muddy. You might be able to fit a 27mm tire
    into short reach brakes, but fitting a 27mm tire plus mud
    and leaves is another story.

    I wouldn't think that the regular gear is lousy, but that's it's
    pushing the weight limits, and there's not enough margin of error
    to deal with 50km of pave under a powerful rider. Like the
    setscrew - probably the seatpost won't come loose, but somebody
    wanted to be sure. Perhaps a mechanic who's previously seen
    a seatpost slip in P-R.

    Ben

  5. email hidden said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    Joseph

    Dear Joseph,

    The racers look for stronger-than-regular gear because they bounce
    over the cobblestones faster and harder than regular riders.

    The impact energy rises with the square of the velocity, so if I hit
    the cobblestone at 20 mph with an impact of 400x, a racer who weighs
    as much as I do and hits it at 25 mph will suffer an impact of 625x.
    about 56% harder.

    (Okay, more believable cobblestone figures might be 15 mph for me and
    27 mph for the racer, so the impacts would be 225x versus 729x, with
    the racer hitting the rock three times as hard, but surely you don't
    begrudge my innocent Walter-Mitty moment where I'm imagining that I
    could stay within 5 mph of the real Paris-Roubaix racers.)

    The shims appear to be intended to stop things from moving during the
    race. Apparently unshimmed regular equipment moved in training rides,
    so the mechanics had to try something.

    Wider brakes appear to be intended for mud clearance (too bad it
    didn't rain) and to make wheel changes with wide tires a little easier
    and faster (even the winner flatted).

    Chain watchers help over the cobblestones (the regular equipment
    happily bounces off) and also make a difference when getting up after
    a crash (putting the chain back on takes time).

    Some of the modifications and substitutes may be as useless as you
    suspect (or even counter-productive), but they're a typical response
    to a bad situation. When experience proves that regular gear isn't up
    to the job, you try to cobble (sorry, couldn't resist it) something
    together that works.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  6. Quoted message said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Quoted message said:

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish?

    I asume that the would trow out a brand new cabon crank after a race
    like PB, because they don't trust after 6 hours of extreme punishment.
    I they are going to trhow it out after the race they might as well
    throw out a cheaper part.

    Secondly ultra-torqe hasn't yet proved it self on the cobbles yet. The
    old aluminum campy disegn and square axels has proved their strength
    since 1994.

    I rember seeing a lot of centaur and chorus components in PR during
    tha last 10 years. Bike weight isn't a factor in this race, and the
    chorus/centaur parts are just as reliable as the record parts, you
    could argue taht they might be even more rliable.

    Quoted message said:

    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    it's not about fit, it's about clearance for mud.

    --
    Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

    Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

  7. email hidden said:

    On Apr 19, 6:06 pm, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    Quoted message said:

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    Joseph

    Dont forget about steel forks!
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/roubaix07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/roubaix07/gbRoubaixRaceStart07

    My brother in-law has ridden both the full Tour of Flanders and Paris
    Roubaix course. He says that you just would not believe how difficult
    ridding the cobbles on the Roubaix course is - it is absolutely bone
    shattering. According to him absolutely no course be it mountain,
    berg, off-road or what ever compares in difficulty to ridding Roubaix.

  8. Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:
    Quoted message said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...


    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.
    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish?

    I asume that the would trow out a brand new cabon crank after a race
    like PB, because they don't trust after 6 hours of extreme punishment.
    I they are going to trhow it out after the race they might as well
    throw out a cheaper part.

    Secondly ultra-torqe hasn't yet proved it self on the cobbles yet. The
    old aluminum campy disegn and square axels has proved their strength
    since 1994.

    I forgot about the new fangled Ultra-Torque weirdness.

    Quoted message said:

    I rember seeing a lot of centaur and chorus components in PR during
    tha last 10 years. Bike weight isn't a factor in this race, and the
    chorus/centaur parts are just as reliable as the record parts, you
    could argue taht they might be even more rliable.

    and I suppose somewhat more disposable.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    it's not about fit, it's about clearance for mud.

    I guess it depends on the consistency of the mud, and as I have never
    experienced Paris-Roubaix mud, I can't say. I suppose the point in
    another post about clearance for tire changes is quite relavent as
    well.

    Joseph

  9. eeeyow! check the dnf's

    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:11IF_oMFlIoJ:www.pedalmag.com/index.php%3Fmodule%3DSection%26action%3Dviewdetail%26item_id%3D10112+Paris+Roubaix+2007+photos&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

    i hear 30% reufsed spoke freeze.

    you guys don't use seat post stops?

  10. email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    I think some of the reasons I was posting these comments was missed.

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank? Not questioning the use of square taper bottom
    bracket versus the new one piece things. Many teams used Campagnolo
    Ultra Torrque carbon cranks on Paris Roubaix. This team is not a low
    budget team. Was their inventory of parts so scarce they had to dig
    around for such an old crank? Does Campagnolo want their sponsored
    race teams using cranks that have not been made by them for 3-4
    years? How can Campagnolo sell stuff they no longer make? Campagnolo
    sponsors the teams to help them sell their stuff. Its business.

    Metal shim under the front derailleur clamp. Set screw in the
    seattube. Seems extreme but maybe justified.

    Long reach brakes I can understand since Campagnolo has not made such
    things for 30 years probably. Does not hurt to have plenty of tire
    clearance for mud. Many other pictures of cranks with 44 or 46 inner
    chainrings showed TA rings because Campagnolo does not make such tooth
    counts. Using non sponsor products is common.

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense. Campagnolo says their skeleton
    brakes are stiffer and lighter than last years solid models. Why use
    the older less stiff and heavier front caliper? Don't calipers come
    in pairs from the factory? Why split them up for Paris Roubaix and
    use one caliper from an older set? Clearance for mud and such would
    be identical on 2006 and 2007 Record calipers so that is not the
    reason.

  11. Dans le message de
    news:[email hidden],
    [email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
    déclaré :

    Quoted message said:

    I think some of the reasons I was posting these comments was missed.

    Speculation is fun and no-fault.

    Quoted message said:

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank? Not questioning the use of square taper bottom
    bracket versus the new one piece things.

    So, I want to play. This one puzzled me, but here's what I came up with :
    If you overshift past the big ring, and the chain between ring and arm,
    perhaps it is a little safer to have it riding (momentarily) on the
    interference pin on the Chorus version. Easier to wedge it in the Record
    crevice?

    Idle speculation - I was idle - I speculated.

    Quoted message said:

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense.

    Maybe to avoid having mud, which wasn't available on race day, accumulate in
    the skeleton? No binding?

    Thanks for the opportunity.
    --
    Bonne route !

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

  12. [email hidden] skrev:

    Quoted message said:

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense. Campagnolo says their skeleton
    brakes are stiffer and lighter than last years solid models.

    When the Campagnolo skeleton brakes first appeared people commented on
    how the design could catch and accumulate mud and dirt and how they
    would be difficult to clean. I guess the cleaning part didn't bother
    the mechanics/riders, but perhaps the thought of mud accumulation did.
    Perhaps there wouldn't be a real difference between the the solid and
    the skeleton brake in an actual race, but mental preparations plays a
    rather significant role in races like Paris-Roubaix.

    --
    Regards
    Peter S.

  13. Sandy said:

    Dans le message denews:[email hidden],
    [email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
    déclaré :

    Quoted message said:

    I think some of the reasons I was posting these comments was missed.

    Speculation is fun and no-fault.

    Quoted message said:

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank? Not questioning the use of square taper bottom
    bracket versus the new one piece things.

    So, I want to play. This one puzzled me, but here's what I came up with :
    If you overshift past the big ring, and the chain between ring and arm,
    perhaps it is a little safer to have it riding (momentarily) on the
    interference pin on the Chorus version. Easier to wedge it in the Record
    crevice?

    The chainrings for the Record hidden arm cranks have the pin to catch
    the chain in the right spot for the Record hidden arm cranks. The
    Campagnolo non hidden arm chainrings have the pin in the normal spot.
    So you can't really use the hidden arm chainrings on regular 5 arm
    spiders. You can but the pin is not in the right spot. So this
    speculation does not work.

    Quoted message said:


    Idle speculation - I was idle - I speculated.

    Quoted message said:

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense.

    Maybe to avoid having mud, which wasn't available on race day, accumulatein
    the skeleton? No binding?

    OK. I'll buy the mud building up in the skeleton calipers argument.
    But then why use the skeleton on the rear wheel and the non mud
    catching older caliper on the front wheel? Wouldn't the no mud build
    up logic apply to both wheels? Why use the older caliper on the front
    to prevent mud build up if that is a concern and then use the skeleton
    caliper on the rear wheel to catch mud? So on this one I'm not a
    believer. Why use two different calipers?

    Quoted message said:


    Thanks for the opportunity.
    --
    Bonne route !

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

  14. email hidden said:
    Quoted message said:

    On 19 Apr 2007 10:33:02 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Apr 19, 6:06 pm, "[email hidden]"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    > ride.

    Quoted message said:

    > 2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    > Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    > clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    > team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    > tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    > place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:

    > Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    > the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Quoted message said:

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    Quoted message said:

    Joseph

    Dear Joseph,

    The racers look for stronger-than-regular gear because they bounce
    over the cobblestones faster and harder than regular riders.

    The impact energy rises with the square of the velocity, so if I hit
    the cobblestone at 20 mph with an impact of 400x, a racer who weighs
    as much as I do and hits it at 25 mph will suffer an impact of 625x.
    about 56% harder.

    (Okay, more believable cobblestone figures might be 15 mph for me and
    27 mph for the racer, so the impacts would be 225x versus 729x, with
    the racer hitting the rock three times as hard, but surely you don't
    begrudge my innocent Walter-Mitty moment where I'm imagining that I
    could stay within 5 mph of the real Paris-Roubaix racers.)

    Ok, but we are not talking about orders of magnitude here. Does bike
    equipment really have such a low threshold of failure? Admittedly 50km
    + of constant bashing is quite a bit more punishing that hitting a big
    pot-hole once in a while, but I think all this comes in the better
    safe than sorry category and isn't strictly necessary.

    [snip]

    Dear Joseph,

    If you accept the theory that a racer who weighs as much as I do will
    hit the cobblestone at 27 mph, while I would hit it at only 15 mph,
    then the impact difference involving the square of the velocity is
    225x versus 729x--the racer has 3 times the impact.

    1/2 mass * v^2 = ke

    Now imagine me trundling along over the cobblestones at the same 15
    mph. To achieve the same impact without speeding up to 27 mph, I have
    to attach 504 pounds of lead weights to my 225 lb bicycle + rider,
    roughly tripling my total weight.

    Tripling may not be an order of magnitude, but few 20 lb bicycles will
    last very long hitting cobblestones at 15 mph with 700 pounds of
    rider, or at 27 mph with a heavy rider. Sneaking off the cobblestones
    and riding down the smoother dirt shoulder isn't just to spare the
    riders--those guys break bicycles and wheels.

    The DNF list, pointed out elsewhere in this thread, suggests that the
    one-day race is just as tough as advertised, tougher than about half
    the contestants and thus presumably tougher than many bikes.

    Of the 187 riders who started Paris-Roubaix 2007, 96 finished within
    the time limit, 5 finished but were cut for being over the time limit,
    and 86 did not finish the race. Some of the 86 DNF riders quit because
    they were hopelessly over the time limit, others were injured in
    crashes or too sore to keep riding, and some broke more bikes and
    wheels than they had spares.

    Concerning the durability of "regular" equipment, I once demonstrated
    trials riding at a Denver fairground with several other Rocky Mountain
    Trials Association riders. Yamaha, the sponsor, insisted that we use
    six brand-new Yamaha trials machines instead of our own machines. The
    fairgrounds being flat, the only obstacle available in that era was a
    3-foot thick cottonwood log. In a few hours of bumping back and forth
    over the log several times per minute, we broke all three of the
    unbreakable Yamaha plastic skid plates. In normal competition, they
    usually lasted for a year or two. In normal trail riding, they last
    practically forever--I occasionally see working originals over 30
    years later.

    The numbered Paris-Roubaix results list and link follow.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
    1. Stuart O’Grady (Aus) Team CSC 6.09.04
    2. Juan Antonio Flecha (Spa) Rabobank at 0.52
    3. Steffen Wesemann (Swi) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    4. Björn Leukemans (Bel) Predictor-Lotto 0.53
    5. Roberto Petito (Ita) Liquigas 0.55
    6. Tom Boonen (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic
    7. Roger Hammond (GBr) T-Mobile Team
    8. Enrico Franzoi (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 0.56
    9. Kévin Van Impe (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic 1.24
    10. Fabio Baldato (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 2.27
    11. Lars Michaelsen (Den) Team CSC
    12. David Kopp (Ger) Gerolsteiner 2.28
    13. Leif Hoste (Bel) Predictor-Lotto
    14. Matti Breschel (Den) Team CSC
    15. Ralf Grabsch (Ger) Team Milram
    16. Staf Scheirlinckx (Bel) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    17. Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    18. Stijn Devolder (Bel) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    19. Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 2.38
    20. Marcus Burghardt (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.43
    21. Sébastien Rosseler (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic 3.45
    22. Stéphane Poulhies (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 5.04
    23. Peter Van Petegem (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic
    24. Martin Elmiger (Swi) AG2r Prévoyance 5.05
    25. Frédéric Guesdon (Fra) Française des Jeux
    26. Jose Joaquin Rojas (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
    27. Guennadi Mikhailov (Rus) Astana
    28. Bert Grabsch (Ger) T-Mobile Team
    29. Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) Predictor-Lotto 5.06
    30. Olaf Pollack (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt 5.07
    31. Floris Goesinnen (Ned) Skil-Shimano 5.12
    32. Nico Eeckhout (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen 8.28
    33. Filip Meirhaeghe (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    34. Nicolas Rousseau (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 8.29
    35. Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Liquigas
    36. Volodymyr Bileka (Ukr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 8.31
    37. Aivaras Baranauskas (Ltu) Agritubel 9.27
    38. Steven De Jongh (Ned) Quickstep-Innergetic 9.38
    39. William Bonnet (Fra) Crédit Agricole
    40. Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Team Milram
    41. Rony Martias (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    42. Sven Krauss (Ger) Gerolsteiner
    43. Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole
    44. Florent Brard (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne
    45. Bram De Groot (Ned) Rabobank
    46. Marcus Ljungqvist (Swe) Team CSC
    47. Magnus Backstedt (Swe) Liquigas 9.39
    48. Andy Flickinger (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    49. Peter Wrolich (Aut) Gerolsteiner
    50. Jörg Ludewig (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    51. Koen De Kort (Ned) Astana
    52. Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Française des Jeux
    53. Tom Steels (Bel) Predictor-Lotto
    54. Angel Gomez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    55. Christophe Mengin (Fra) Française des Jeux 9.40
    56. Robert Wagner (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    57. Paolo Fornaciari (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 9.41
    58. Wim Vansevenant (Bel) Predictor-Lotto 9.43
    59. Lorenzo Bernucci (Ita) T-Mobile Team
    60. Roy Sentjens (Ned) Predictor-Lotto 9.45
    61. Alessandro Ballan (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 9.52
    62. Yohann Gène (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 12.21
    63. Iban Iriondo (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
    64. Kasper Klostergaard Larsen (Den) Team CSC
    65. Bernhard Eisel (Aut) T-Mobile Team
    66. Max Van Heeswijk (Ned) Rabobank
    67. Grégory Rast (Swi) Astana
    68. Bastiaan Giling (Ned) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    69. Raul Alarcon Garcia (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 12.22
    70. Servais Knaven (Ned) T-Mobile Team 16.22
    71. Fabio Sabatini (Ita) Team Milram
    72. Maarten Tjallingii (Ned) Skil-Shimano
    73. Wouter Weylandt (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic 16.23
    74. Niki Terpstra (Ned) Team Milram 16.41
    75. Raivis Belohvosciks (Lat) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    76. Steven Caethoven (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen
    16.43
    77. Christophe Laurent (Fra) Crédit Agricole
    78. Maarten Den Bakker (Ned) Skil-Shimano
    79. Markel Irizar (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 16.44
    80. Alessandro Cortinovis (Ita) Team Milram
    81. Koldo Fernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 16.48
    82. Mathieu Heijboer (Ned) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone 16.49
    83. Andreas Klier (Ger) T-Mobile Team 16.56
    84. Tristan Valentin (Fra) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone 17.53
    85. Pedro Horrillo Munoz (Spa) Rabobank 18.25
    86. Carlo Westphal (Ger) Gerolsteiner 19.17
    87. Wouter Van Mechelen (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner 20.37
    88. Tom Stamsnijder (Ned) Gerolsteiner 20.57
    89. Erki Pütsep (Est) Bouygues Telecom 20.58
    90. Alessandro Vanotti (Ita) Liquigas 27.43
    91. Jan Kuyckx (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner 28.33
    92. Johan Van Summeren (Bel) Predictor-Lotto 31.34
    93. Alexandre Usov (Blr) AG2r Prévoyance 34.33
    94. Imanol Erviti Ollo (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
    95. Clément Lhotellerie (Fra) Skil-Shimano
    96. Evert Verbist (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen 34.34
    97. TC. Julian Dean (NZl) Crédit Agricole
    98. TC. Fabien Bacquet (Fra) Skil-Shimano
    99. TC. Hans Dekkers (Ned) Agritubel
    100. TC. Mikel Gaztanaga Echeverria (Spa) Agritubel
    101. TC. Sjef De Wilde (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    102. DNF. Sébastien Hinault (Fra) Crédit Agricole
    103. DNF. René Mandri (Est) AG2r Prévoyance
    104. DNF. Laurent Mangel (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance
    105. DNF. Jean-Patrick Nazon (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance
    106. DNF. Christophe Riblon (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance
    107. DNF. Francisco Ventoso (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    108. DNF. Angelo Furlan (Ita) Crédit Agricole
    109. DNF. Jimmy Engoulvent (Fra) Crédit Agricole
    110. DNF. Linas Balciunas (Ltu) Agritubel
    111. DNF. Emilien Benoit Bergès (Fra) Agritubel
    112. DNF. Cédric Coutouly (Fra) Agritubel
    113. DNF. Anthony Ravard (Fra) Agritubel
    114. DNF. Benoît Sinner (Fra) Agritubel
    115. DNF. Thomas Fothen (Ger) Gerolsteiner
    116. DNF. Oscar Gatto (Ita) Gerolsteiner
    117. DNF. Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Gerolsteiner
    118. DNF. Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Crédit Agricole
    119. DNF. Jesus Del Nero (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    120. DNF. Arkaitz Duran Aroca (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    121. DNF. Luciano André Pagliarini Mendonca (Bra) Saunier Duval-Prodir
    122. DNF. Alexey Kolessov (Kaz) Astana
    123. DNF. Michael Schär (Swi) Astana
    124. DNF. Artur Gajek (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    125. DNF. Felix Odebrecht (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    126. DNF. Steffen Radochla (Ger) Team Wiesenhof Felt
    127. DNF. Glenn D’Hollander (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport
    Vlaanderen
    128. DNF. Pieter Ghyllebert (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport
    Vlaanderen
    129. DNF. Kurt Hovelynck (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen
    130. DNF. Kenny Lisabeth (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen
    131. DNF. Aaron Kemps (Aus) Astana
    132. DNF. Benoît Joachim (Lux) Astana
    133. DNF. Andoni Aranaga (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
    134. DNF. Andoni Lafuente (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
    135. DNF. Alan Perez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
    136. DNF. Unai Uribarri (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
    137. DNF. David Boucher (Fra) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    138. DNF. Frédéric Amorison (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    139. DNF. Frédéric Gabriel (Fra) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    140. DNF. Kevin Neirynck (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Tönissteiner
    141. DNF. René Haselbacher (Aut) Astana
    142. DNF. Bart Vanheule (Bel) Chocolade Jacques-Topsport Vlaanderen
    143. DNF. Allan Johansen (Den) Team CSC
    144. DNF. Ludovic Auger (Fra) Française des Jeux
    145. DNF. Sébastien Chavanel (Fra) Française des Jeux
    146. DNF. Timothy Gudsell (NZl) Française des Jeux
    147. DNF. Thierry Marichal (Bel) Française des Jeux
    148. DNF. Francis Mourey (Fra) Française des Jeux
    149. DNF. Eric Baumann (Ger) T-Mobile Team
    150. DNF. Bert Roesems (Bel) Predictor-Lotto
    151. DNF. Nick Nuyens (Bel) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    152. DNF. Kevin De Weert (Bel) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    153. DNF. Leon Van Bon (Ned) Rabobank
    154. DNF. Dmitriy KozonTC.huk (Rus) Rabobank
    155. DNF. Luke Roberts (Aus) Team CSC
    156. DNF. Gert Steegmans (Bel) Quickstep-Innergetic
    157. DNF. Matteo Tosatto (Ita) Quickstep-Innergetic
    158. DNF. Daniele Bennati (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
    159. DNF. Claudio Corioni (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
    160. DNF. Massimiliano Mori (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
    161. DNF. Daniele Righi (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
    162. DNF. Jan Boven (Ned) Rabobank
    163. DNF. Rick Flens (Ned) Rabobank
    164. DNF. Hervé Duclos-Lassalle (Fra) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    165. DNF. Michiel Elijzen (Ned) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    166. DNF. Sébastien Minard (Fra) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone
    167. DNF. Steven Cummings (GBr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    168. DNF. Tomas Vaitkus (Ltu) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    169. DNF. Matthew White (Aus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    170. DNF. Michael Albasini (Swi) Liquigas
    171. DNF. Mauro Da Dalto (Ita) Liquigas
    172. DNF. Aleksandr Kuchynski (Blr) Liquigas
    173. DNF. Frederik Willems (Bel) Liquigas
    174. DNF. Eric Berthou (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne
    175. DNF. Vicente Garcia Acosta (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
    176. DNF. Antonio Cruz (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    177. DNF. Fumiyuki Beppu (Jpn) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
    178. DNF. Brett Lancaster (Aus) Team Milram
    179. DNF. Martin Müller (Ger) Team Milram
    180. DNF. Christian Müller (Ger) Skil-Shimano
    181. DNF. Albert Timmer (Ned) Skil-Shimano
    182. DNF. Aart Vierhouten (Ned) Skil-Shimano
    183. DNF. Mathieu Claude (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    184. DNF. Arnaud Labbe (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    185. DNF. Alexandre Pichot (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    186. DNF. Franck Renier (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
    187. DNF. Nicolas Portal (Fra) Caisse d'Epargne

    http://www.pedalmag.com/index.php?module=Section&action=viewdetail&item_id=10112

  15. Quoted message said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.
    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    It's frame reach/clearance (or fork reach) not the caliper per se.
    Here's a 27mm tubular under a Chorus caliper:
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/WIDE27.JPG

    Note the shoes are at the bottom of the slot. Not all frames with Chorus
    calipers will clear even 25mm tires.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  16. A Muzi said:
    Quoted message said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.
    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Record skeleton brake on back. Older normal looking Record brake on
    the front instead of the skeleton style. Chain watcher of course.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2...


    Quoted message said:

    I wonder if the regular gear is really too lousy to deal with a mere
    50km of pave, or if this is the mechanics' one chance per year to
    really let their hair out.

    Quoted message said:

    Like what does using an old Chorus crank accomplish? And the
    derailleur shim? I've fit 27mm tires into Campy calipers, why can't
    they?

    It's frame reach/clearance (or fork reach) not the caliper per se.
    Here's a 27mm tubular under a Chorus caliper:http://www.yellowjersey.org/WIDE27.JPG

    Note the shoes are at the bottom of the slot. Not all frames with Chorus
    calipers will clear even 25mm tires.
    --
    Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    But can you explain why the bike has a 2006 solid style Record caliper
    on the front and a 2007 Record skeleton caliper on the back?

    The use of the long reach caliper makes sense for extra clearance of
    big tires and/or mud and/or the frame just does not have the brake
    bridge in the exact right spot.

  17. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 19 Apr 2007 13:52:21 -0700, "[email hidden]"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    [snip]

    Dear Joseph,

    If you accept the theory that a racer who weighs as much as I do will
    hit the cobblestone at 27 mph, while I would hit it at only 15 mph,
    then the impact difference involving the square of the velocity is
    225x versus 729x--the racer has 3 times the impact.

    1/2 mass * v^2 = ke

    Now imagine me trundling along over the cobblestones at the same 15
    mph. To achieve the same impact without speeding up to 27 mph, I have
    to attach 504 pounds of lead weights to my 225 lb bicycle + rider,
    roughly tripling my total weight.

    Tripling may not be an order of magnitude, but few 20 lb bicycles will
    last very long hitting cobblestones at 15 mph with 700 pounds of
    rider, or at 27 mph with a heavy rider. Sneaking off the cobblestones
    and riding down the smoother dirt shoulder isn't just to spare the
    riders--those guys break bicycles and wheels.

    The DNF list, pointed out elsewhere in this thread, suggests that the
    one-day race is just as tough as advertised, tougher than about half
    the contestants and thus presumably tougher than many bikes.

    Of the 187 riders who started Paris-Roubaix 2007, 96 finished within
    the time limit, 5 finished but were cut for being over the time limit,
    and 86 did not finish the race. Some of the 86 DNF riders quit because
    they were hopelessly over the time limit, others were injured in
    crashes or too sore to keep riding, and some broke more bikes and
    wheels than they had spares.

    Concerning the durability of "regular" equipment, I once demonstrated
    trials riding at a Denver fairground with several other Rocky Mountain
    Trials Association riders. Yamaha, the sponsor, insisted that we use
    six brand-new Yamaha trials machines instead of our own machines. The
    fairgrounds being flat, the only obstacle available in that era was a
    3-foot thick cottonwood log. In a few hours of bumping back and forth
    over the log several times per minute, we broke all three of the
    unbreakable Yamaha plastic skid plates. In normal competition, they
    usually lasted for a year or two. In normal trail riding, they last
    practically forever--I occasionally see working originals over 30
    years later.

    The numbered Paris-Roubaix results list and link follow.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    I read and interview with Tom Boonen a few weeks ago. As one of the P-R
    champs he said the best way to get through the Pave was to ride as fast as
    possible. Doing so smoothed out the vibrations and shock a little.

    Chas.

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted post said:
    email hidden said:

    Lot of odd things used on the special, custom, one-off bikes for this
    ride.

    2003 or 2004 Chorus cranks with non hidden fifth spider arm, ala
    Record and 2005 onwards Chorus. Metal shim under the front derailleur
    clamp. Tektro or Shimano or something long reach brake calipers on a
    team sponsored by Campagnolo to provide space around the 27mm
    tubulars. Set screw through the seattube to hold the seatpost in
    place.http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2.
    ..

    Quoted message said:

    I think some of the reasons I was posting these comments was missed.

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank? Not questioning the use of square taper bottom
    bracket versus the new one piece things. Many teams used Campagnolo
    Ultra Torrque carbon cranks on Paris Roubaix. This team is not a low
    budget team. Was their inventory of parts so scarce they had to dig
    around for such an old crank? Does Campagnolo want their sponsored
    race teams using cranks that have not been made by them for 3-4
    years? How can Campagnolo sell stuff they no longer make? Campagnolo
    sponsors the teams to help them sell their stuff. Its business.

    Few teams are what we think of as high-budget. Title sponsor Wilier is a
    big but not huge bike maker. They get caught occasionally doing strange
    things like buying Scott frames, putting them under their racers, and
    touting them as their new prototype carbon design.

    And then getting called on it in public by Scott.

    I suspect, given the one-off nature of these bikes, that there was a
    sense of hodge-podgeing them out of whatever was in the shop. At this
    level of racing support, I'm sure they have an adequate (but not
    infinite) collection of new-in-box Record groups ready for a season's
    worth of bikes and some spares. But finding a simple Al crank (possibly
    wanted on the theory that after Roubaix, they wouldn't want to re-use
    the cranks or scratch up the good stuff before le Tour) would have been
    hard.

    So they dug into the bin under the mechanic's bench, and the first one
    in the right length was a 2003 Chorus part. Who cares? Good enough for
    the mechanic, and good enough for Ballan.

    And so forth. The rear brake isn't even a sponsor part. Probably a handy
    Ultegra-grade long-reach brake, plus a few minutes with a buffing wheel
    to desponsorize it.

    Custom fork, because they have a close relationship with the frame
    maker, he being the title sponsor.

    Again, I think a lot of parts were being spared for cleaner, less
    destructive races, or just this is a one-off bike.

    Think about it: they put a hole in the frame for a secondary seatpost
    stops screw. They're not using that for any other races this year, or
    possibly ever.

    Quoted message said:

    Metal shim under the front derailleur clamp. Set screw in the
    seattube. Seems extreme but maybe justified.

    It has an air of improvisation. Which is to say I suspect parts-pile
    bodgery because I've made bikes like this (which may be much like the
    who's had PT diagnosing all knee pain as PT...).

    Quoted message said:

    Long reach brakes I can understand since Campagnolo has not made such
    things for 30 years probably. Does not hurt to have plenty of tire
    clearance for mud. Many other pictures of cranks with 44 or 46 inner
    chainrings showed TA rings because Campagnolo does not make such tooth
    counts. Using non sponsor products is common.

    I think this is a use-once-and-forget sort of bike project. Wilier gave
    them a custom-built frame and fork, but the rest had to be sourced from
    handy parts on minimal money (or more cynically, the parts budget is now
    the wrench's beer budget, but a drunk wrench is a happy wrench...) and
    also there's some specific P-R needs they need to work into these
    improvisations.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  19. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think some of the reasons I was posting these comments was missed.

    Sandy said:

    Speculation is fun and no-fault.

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank? Not questioning the use of square taper bottom
    bracket versus the new one piece things.

    Sandy said:

    So, I want to play. This one puzzled me, but here's what I came up with :
    If you overshift past the big ring, and the chain between ring and arm,
    perhaps it is a little safer to have it riding (momentarily) on the
    interference pin on the Chorus version. Easier to wedge it in the Record
    crevice?
    Idle speculation - I was idle - I speculated.

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense.

    Sandy said:

    Maybe to avoid having mud, which wasn't available on race day, accumulate in
    the skeleton? No binding?

    All reasonable speculation, Sandy.

    If I were to guess I'd say that for the rough filthy course, using
    specific PR bikes, team mechanics used what was available, functional,
    maybe a few rider-specific requests, using equipment not already
    installed on the regular team road bikes.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  20. Quoted message said:

    Why an older aluminum Chorus 5 arm crank instead of a newer aluminum
    Chorus or Record crank? Why go so many years back to get an aluminum
    Campagnolo crank?

    Perhaps the pre 06 Chorus part was what they had in storage. I guess
    they where using the non-titanium Chorus BB as well.

    Quoted message said:

    The use of older 2006 Record brakes on the front and 2007 skeleton
    brakes on the back makes no sense.

    Skeleton brakes are potential mud collecters, especially on the front.

    --
    Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

    Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

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