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Paramount

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Cycling Equipment
Published
4 July 2007
Last activity
15 July 2007
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wishful thinker
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  1. On Jul 3, 11:35 pm, [email hidden] (wishful thinker)

    Quoted message said:

    When I was a kid the Schwinn Paramount was considered by many to be one
    of the finest bikes ever made. How do the specs on that bike compare to
    a top of the line bike of today?

    By today's standards is it still considered to be a great bike?

    Define "great". As in, will it make you faster during an uphill time
    trial? Or does it ride nicely over the course of a Century? Or will it
    last a long time?

    I love my '75 531, Nervex lugged track frame. It's beautiful, solid,
    and so far very reliable. Track components haven't changed all that
    significantly, and weight isn't as much of a factor in a velodrome as
    it would be in the Pyrenees, so I'm tempted to say that it's still a
    viable choice for racing.

    Now, if you're asking if, say, Lance Armstrong would have won the Tour
    on a '75 Paramount road bike instead of his lighter, stiffer, Dura-Ace
    brifter equipped Treks, it's hard to say. I would think that the 30
    year old Paramount probably would not have helped him much. I'd like
    to see somebody try it, though.

    /s

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've "used" 3 helmets- and certainly if I wasn't
    wearing one "I" would not be here now.

    I don't know the circumstance of your accidents, but in every case
    I've heard where someone said something like that it's turned out that
    they are very mistaken and irrational about helmet use.

    It's amazing that you have three times you had accidents that were
    severe enough to have been deadly and yet were not so severe as to
    overwhelm those small pieces of foam or break your neck or other body
    parts in crippling or deadly ways. Or perhaps you are crippled or
    severely injured in other ways?

    wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?

  3. Fred Clydesdale said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:26:17 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've "used" 3 helmets- and certainly if I wasn't
    wearing one "I" would not be here now.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the circumstance of your accidents, but in every case
    I've heard where someone said something like that it's turned out that
    they are very mistaken and irrational about helmet use.

    Quoted message said:

    It's amazing that you have three times you had accidents that were
    severe enough to have been deadly and yet were not so severe as to
    overwhelm those small pieces of foam or break your neck or other body
    parts in crippling or deadly ways. Or perhaps you are crippled or
    severely injured in other ways?

    wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?

    Theft on Usenet is worse than NYC.

    back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain mail
    vest is a thorax hater!!!!

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    landotter said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's amazing that you have three times you had accidents that were
    severe enough to have been deadly and yet were not so severe as to
    overwhelm those small pieces of foam or break your neck or other body
    parts in crippling or deadly ways. Or perhaps you are crippled or
    severely injured in other ways?

    wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?

    Theft on Usenet is worse than NYC.

    back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain mail
    vest is a thorax hater!!!!

    varlet! lad, fetch me my mace and shield!

    (the sound of nerdy battle ensues)

  5. Fred Clydesdale said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    landotter said:
    Quoted message said:

    > It's amazing that you have three times you had accidents that were
    > severe enough to have been deadly and yet were not so severe as to
    > overwhelm those small pieces of foam or break your neck or other body
    > parts in crippling or deadly ways. Or perhaps you are crippled or
    > severely injured in other ways?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?

    Quoted message said:

    Theft on Usenet is worse than NYC.

    Quoted message said:

    back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain mail
    vest is a thorax hater!!!!

    varlet! lad, fetch me my mace and shield!

    (the sound of nerdy battle ensues)

    /me drops dice set and spell book. Noooooooooo!

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    landotter said:
    Fred Clydesdale said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:26:17 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    >I've "used" 3 helmets- and certainly if I wasn't wearing one "I"
    >would not be here now.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the circumstance of your accidents, but in every
    case I've heard where someone said something like that it's
    turned out that they are very mistaken and irrational about
    helmet use.

    Quoted message said:

    It's amazing that you have three times you had accidents that
    were severe enough to have been deadly and yet were not so severe
    as to overwhelm those small pieces of foam or break your neck or
    other body parts in crippling or deadly ways. Or perhaps you are
    crippled or severely injured in other ways?

    wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?

    Theft on Usenet is worse than NYC.

    back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain mail
    vest is a thorax hater!!!!

    Mine's mithril. Lighter and breathes better than iron or steel.

  7. On Jul 4, 10:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:03:11 -0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo

    Quoted message said:

    Right, remember that helmets 'may' help, never hurt. Helmets are not a
    panacea to no head injury, paticularly with the ridiculously low
    height and speed standards they are now tested to.

    If they never hurt, why do you not wear one all the time?

    If you truly believe there is no downside to wearing a helmet,
    shouldn't you wear it all the time. At least when awake and moving,
    or when outside? Seems to me that's the logical conclusion to your
    belief.
    --
    JT

    Why not wear a diaper all the time so you never have to go to a 'loo??

    How about some reality..plus if ya don't want to wear a helmet or
    clothes or anything else for that matter, don't.

  8. Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

    On Jul 4, 10:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:03:11 -0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo

    Quoted message said:

    Right, remember that helmets 'may' help, never hurt. Helmets are not a
    panacea to no head injury, paticularly with the ridiculously low
    height and speed standards they are now tested to.

    If they never hurt, why do you not wear one all the time?

    If you truly believe there is no downside to wearing a helmet,
    shouldn't you wear it all the time. At least when awake and moving,
    or when outside? Seems to me that's the logical conclusion to your
    belief.
    --
    JT

    Why not wear a diaper all the time so you never have to go to a 'loo??

    Quoted message said:

    How about some reality..plus if ya don't want to wear a helmet or
    clothes or anything else for that matter, don't.

    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?

    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?

    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    These are simple questions.

    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  9. Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

    Why not wear a diaper all the time so you never have to go to a 'loo??

    It worked (for a while, anyhow) for Lisa Marie Nowak.

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Scott Gordo said:

    On Jul 3, 11:35 pm, [email hidden] (wishful thinker)

    Quoted message said:

    When I was a kid the Schwinn Paramount was considered by many to be one
    of the finest bikes ever made. How do the specs on that bike compare to
    a top of the line bike of today?

    By today's standards is it still considered to be a great bike?

    Define "great". As in, will it make you faster during an uphill time
    trial? Or does it ride nicely over the course of a Century? Or will it
    last a long time?

    Quoted message said:

    Now, if you're asking if, say, Lance Armstrong would have won the Tour
    on a '75 Paramount road bike instead of his lighter, stiffer, Dura-Ace
    brifter equipped Treks, it's hard to say. I would think that the 30
    year old Paramount probably would not have helped him much. I'd like
    to see somebody try it, though.

    At least one report suggests that the wattage advantage Lance had over
    Jan in their peak years was about 10 watts on a good day. As the start
    of the TdF approached, Armstrong would be sweating over losing the last
    half a kilo to get to race form.

    I think that riding a bike that weighed 2 or 3 kilos more than his Trek
    would have been a problem. On uphill stages, for reasons involving both
    weight savings and shifter trim, he would routinely use a DT shifter for
    the front derailer.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  11. raam' who? said:

    ...I've "used" 3 helmets- and certainly if I wasn't wearing one "I" would not be here now....

    Did your exactly identical twin die in an accident that was exactly
    identical to yours in every way except he/she was not wearing a foam
    hat?

    If not, this is speculation, not certainty.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

  12. John Forrest Tomlinson said:


    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?

    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?

    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    These are simple questions.

    HOT DOG! WE HAVE A WEINER!

    It's not a real helmet flame war until this point is brought up.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

  13. Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:
    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?

    Quoted message said:

    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    Quoted message said:

    These are simple questions.

    HOT DOG! WE HAVE A WEINER!

    It's not a real helmet flame war until this point is brought up.

    All we need now is that flaming ass from Halifax, and the picture will
    be complete.

  14. Ozark Bicycle said:
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:
    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?

    Quoted message said:

    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    Quoted message said:

    These are simple questions.

    HOT DOG! WE HAVE A WEINER!

    It's not a real helmet flame war until this point is brought up.

    All we need now is that flaming ass from Halifax, and the picture will
    be complete.

    They're legitimate questions and the fact that helmet proponents don't
    or can't answer them says a lot about their lack of logic in this
    aspect of life.

    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  15. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?

    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?

    I'll go ahead and state the obvious: A modern car offers
    excellent built-in protection against moderate-speed impacts,
    including seat belts, multiple airbags, active head restraints
    (in Hondas anyway), and most importantly a solid frame around
    your entire body with crumple zones in the front and rear. A
    helmet doesn't add a whole lot to that. (It may be worth
    noting, however, that in motor sports such as rally racing and
    NASCAR, where crashes are significantly more likely, helmets
    *are* worn.)

    Bicycles and motorcycles cannot offer the same level of head
    protection as a car, so it's generally a good idea to wear a
    helmet on these if you feel there's a risk of you hitting the
    pavement.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    And don't pretend that the question of whether or not you hit
    the pavement is entirely a matter of your skill as a cyclist.
    On this newsgroup there are constantly stories of cyclists being
    hit by negligent drivers; in those threads, nobody makes foolish
    arguments that the cyclist was at fault for not being careful
    enough.

    An anecdote involving my ex-roommate provides a good example.
    Coming home from campus last semester, he was right-hooked by a
    driver who cut across the bike lane. She came from behind, did
    not use a turn signal, and turned suddenly, running over his
    rear wheel; there was no reasonable way for him to anticipate or
    avoid this collision.

    When he went down, his head hit the concrete curb. Fortunately
    he didn't hit hard, but the side of his head was badly scraped
    and he suffered a minor concussion. He passed in and out of
    consciousness a few times that night.

    Now you helmet-haters can argue all you want that a helmet
    wouldn't necessarily have completely prevented his concussion,
    or that the scrapes he suffered and had to take care of for
    weeks aren't worth consideration. But wearing a helmet
    certainly wouldn't have hurt, and he'll surely be wearing a
    helmet as soon as he gets his bike replaced.

    Quoted message said:

    These are simple questions.

    One other argument I'd like to attack, which I keep seeing pop
    up in this and similar threads, is that helmets aren't rated for
    30 MPH collision, ergo if you're riding at 30 MPH then wearing a
    helmet won't do you any good. Bull$hit. If you're clipped and
    fall off your bike, the speed at which you hit the ground is
    mostly a function of the acceleration of gravity from your
    position on top of your bike down to the pavement, regardless of
    your horizontal velocity.

    I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
    this thread. Nobody (at least nobody here) is telling you that
    you should wear a helmet if you don't want to; likewise, if the
    rest of us prefer having some degree of protection, however
    minimal, between our heads and the road, then you really
    shouldn't take it personally.

    --
    Mark Shroyer
    http://markshroyer.com/

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    catzz66 said:
    Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

    Why not wear a diaper all the time so you never have to go to a
    'loo??

    It worked (for a while, anyhow) for Lisa Marie Nowak.

    Now her lawyers state she didn't wear a diaper. Like that makes the
    whole thing so much more normal.

  17. Mark Shroyer said:

    ...
    Now you helmet-haters can argue all you want that a helmet
    wouldn't necessarily have completely prevented his concussion,
    or that the scrapes he suffered and had to take care of for
    weeks aren't worth consideration. But wearing a helmet
    certainly wouldn't have hurt...

    It could increase the rotational force applied to the head, increasing
    brain trauma.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
    this thread. Nobody (at least nobody here) is telling you that
    you should wear a helmet if you don't want to;

    Not true.

    Quoted message said:

    likewise, if the
    rest of us prefer having some degree of protection, however
    minimal, between our heads and the road, then you really
    shouldn't take it personally.

    If you don't appreciate the concept of correctly understanding how
    things work (and often more importantly, don't work), a "tech" group
    seems an odd place to hang out.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

  18. On Jul 5, 9:15 pm, Mark Shroyer <[email hidden]> wrote:

    <snipped>

    Quoted message said:

    I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
    this thread. Nobody (at least nobody here) is telling you that
    you should wear a helmet if you don't want to; likewise, if the
    rest of us prefer having some degree of protection, however
    minimal, between our heads and the road, then you really
    shouldn't take it personally.

    Are you ready for a torrent, nay, a river, of [censored]? Grab your
    snorkel, you're gonna need it!

    Good luck! ;-)

  19. "Mark Shroyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
    this thread. Nobody (at least nobody here) is telling you that
    you should wear a helmet if you don't want to; likewise, if the
    rest of us prefer having some degree of protection, however
    minimal, between our heads and the road, then you really
    shouldn't take it personally.

    Operative word being "minimal". If you are worried about scratches or even
    wounds requiring stitches than by all means wear a helmet. But it's
    laughable to expect a thin styrofoam helmet to protect your brain from
    serious injury.

    Greg
    --
    Ticketbastard tax tracker:
    http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

    Dethink to survive - Mclusky

  20. On Jul 5, 7:35 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:24:18 -0700, Ozark Bicycle

    Quoted message said:
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

    On Jul 5, 6:31 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    > why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    > don't you?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    > a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    > not?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    > not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > These are simple questions.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    HOT DOG! WE HAVE A WEINER!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's not a real helmet flame war until this point is brought up.

    Quoted message said:

    All we need now is that flaming ass from Halifax, and the picture will
    be complete.

    They're legitimate questions and the fact that helmet proponents don't
    or can't answer them says a lot about their lack of logic in this
    aspect of life.

    While helmets for drivers would be about as silly/useful as cycle
    helmets, drivers, in sharp contrast to cyclists of N. America, have no
    cultural expectation of helmet use. In fact, wearing a helmet while
    driving would get one branded a loony. Cyclists can take advantage of
    this unique cultural expectation, however bizarre it may be, for use
    of shiny foam hat and receive arguably some marginal safety benefit.

    Robert

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