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Pannier Sizes

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UK and Europe
Published
17 June 2004
Last activity
26 June 2004
Original author
Randall Flagg
Posts
36
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  1. Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the Celtic Trail +
    detours or some towpath / follow my nose type touring in France (if my
    Lonely Planet guide ever turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

  2. Randall Flagg <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    : a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    : today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    : to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    : than to load up on the front as well.

    Why? You'll get much better handling with smaller rear ones and some small front
    ones than with a pair of huge rear ones.

    : Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    : 2 weeks +

    I assume you're not camping? If you're B&B'ing/hostelling I'd have thought two
    standard size rear panniers would hold plenty enough. If they don't, take less.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
    "Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
    - Paulina Borsook

  3. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy bike with 100% of
    the load on the back and another with the same load split about 60/40
    front rear you might change your mind!
    The last but one copy of Cycle had an article by Chris Juden about
    loading your bike, and it's worth hunting down to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads are envisaged
    for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest looking at splitting the
    weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special ones for
    recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry about heel clearance.
    Rear panniers for Serious Touring tend to be 40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite
    unusually large. In bigger sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all excellent.
    Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Don't forget you can add bar bags to even up the weight distribution a
    bit. Or if you want a really good size load get a BOB Yak single wheel
    trailer.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  4. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    We use Jannd mountain expedition panniers, which I think claim 110
    litres for a pair (that's with the top fully extended, which we don't
    usually need).

    That's for camping tours on a tandem with no front panniers, though.

    James

  5. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    Loading on the front is good.

    http://tranchant.plus.com/cycling/france-1996/ft1-2

    My bike is the one on the right. The lowrider front panniers were
    essential as we were camping and had quite a lot to carry. The loaded
    front made the otherwise twitchy Peugeot much more relaxing to ride.
    You'll see I even had tri-bars fitted, which were a pleasure to settle
    down onto once my hands and arms got a bit tired.

    Once we arrived and I removed the fronts, the unfamiliar twitchiness
    nearly had me off the bike!

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    Camping, or not? Whichever, pack as light as you can. Don't take stuff
    all the way around your tour and not use it at all.

    As far as recommendations go, I've been using a single largish (45l?)
    rear Karrimor Kalahari (I think) for commuting for several years now.
    Very tough with an excellent quick-release.

    --
    Mark.

  6. Randall Flagg said:


    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the Celtic Trail +
    detours or some towpath / follow my nose type touring in France (if my
    Lonely Planet guide ever turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    If you *do* have to carry so much then a front set will improve bike
    handling no end. But I'd seriously give some more thought to why you
    need to carry so much.
    There is a rule that the more space you have the more unnecessary stuff
    you will carry.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    I use Ortlieb 30L Sport Packer Plus, and that's for camping as well.

    John B

  7. Randall Flagg said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the Celtic Trail +
    detours or some towpath / follow my nose type touring in France (if my
    Lonely Planet guide ever turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

    Jobst Brandt does an annual tour of the Alps lasting 20 or more days with
    the following kit and using a Carradice Nelson saddlebag. He's not
    camping, though.

    See http://www-math.science.unitn.it/Bike/General/Packing_List.html

    CLOTHING
    Cycling shorts and Jersey (2ea)
    Socks (2pr)
    Undershorts
    Undershirts
    Cycling shoes
    Sweater
    Cold weather gloves
    Slacks and shirt
    Rain cape or waterproof parka shell (with hood)
    Cycling cap with visor (for sunburn protection)
    Helmet
    Sun glasses

    MECHANICAL
    Pump
    Spare tire and tube
    Patch kit
    Tire levers
    Spokes w. nipples (2 of each length)
    Spoke wrench
    Freewheel remover for your specific freewheel
    Cone wrenches (pair)
    T-wrench, L-wrench for derailleurs etc.
    Chain tool
    Screwdriver (pencil size)
    6 inch adjustable wrench
    Rear axle (for non cassette hub)

    SUNDRIES
    Passport (if necessary)
    Address book
    Money (cash and travelers checks)
    ATM (Bancomat) and VISA/MC card(s)
    Camera (and accessories)
    Film for entire trip
    Maps
    Tooth brush
    Comb
    Nail clipper
    Pen
    Shaver
    Pocket Knife
    Spoon
    Salve, sun lotion, chap stick
    Plastic produce bags (4+)
    Tape, white adhesive or duct tape
    Pocket calculator (for currency computations)
    Can opener
    Matches (or lighter)

    TOOLS required to assemble bike at point of departure
    Crank extractor
    Crank bolt wrench
    Spare crank bolt (in case one breaks on assembly)

    --
    Michael MacClancy
    Random putdown - "They never open their mouths without subtracting from
    the sum of human knowledge." - Thomas Brackett Reed
    www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
    www.macclancy.co.uk

  8. "Peter Clinch" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre


    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy bike with 100% of
    the load on the back and another with the same load split about 60/40
    front rear you might change your mind!
    The last but one copy of Cycle had an article by Chris Juden about
    loading your bike, and it's worth hunting down to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads are envisaged
    for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest looking at splitting the
    weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special ones for
    recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry about heel clearance.
    Rear panniers for Serious Touring tend to be 40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite
    unusually large. In bigger sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring?


    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all excellent.
    Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Pete.

    For my 3 weeks in Scotland last month I had Ortlieb Bikepacker Lite panniers
    in back, small Vaude Panniers in front. The Vaude panniers were good, but
    the Ortlieb were far better. Even with the rain covers that the Vaudes came
    with, the Ortliebs kept my gear much drier. The Ortliebs were also much
    easier to take off and put back on the bike, which I appreciated more and
    more as the tour went on.

    Defiitely consider splittling the load front and rear- the improved weight
    distribution makes the bike much easier to handle. I had front and rear
    panniers, a small seatbag (tools/spare tube) and a handlebar bag, al of
    shich helped with organizing my gear as well as with weight distribution.
    --
    mark

  9. Randall Flagg said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the Celtic Trail +
    detours or some towpath / follow my nose type touring in France (if my
    Lonely Planet guide ever turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone give me
    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair
    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit
    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear panniers
    than to load up on the front as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring? ie.
    2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

    I have 60L rear panniers and 30L front panniers, plus a 10L bar bag.
    My tent gets held onto the rack with bungys. Front panniers give the
    bike superb handling - don't write off the idea.

  10. James Annan said:


    We use Jannd mountain expedition panniers, which I think claim 110
    litres for a pair (that's with the top fully extended, which we don't
    usually need).

    That's for camping tours on a tandem with no front panniers, though.

    We tried camping with the tandem with Halfords old waterproof panniers
    on the rear, the tent (an old heavy Vango Force 10) on top of them,
    and Carradoce front panniers containing trangia, fuel, maps, waterproofs
    for the pilot and similar. We wanted bigger though, but a lot of space
    was taken by the old not-very-compact sleeping bags.

    With the same older equipment, we found 4 rear panniers, 2 front and
    2 bar bags just enough including food for 3 days and clothing for wet
    weather. It does pay to go for the lighter weight backpacking equipment,
    something we'll be getting hold of as our current equipment wears out.

    - Richard

    --
    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com
    _/ _/ _/ _/
    _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
    _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

  11. in message <[email hidden]>, Randall Flagg

    (') said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the Celtic
    Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose type touring in
    France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone
    give me a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a
    60 litre pair today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise
    that there is a limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front as well.

    Frankly putting all your gear into rear panniers is going to make your
    bike a pig to ride, and a pig to handle when you're off the bike.
    Consider a trailer; my advice would be a single wheeler such as a Bob
    Yak or a Weber Monoporter. They upset the handling a lot less.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
    ;; knowledge increaseth sorrow.." - Ecclesiastes 1:18

  12. "mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter Clinch" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60


    litre

    Quoted message said:

    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy bike with 100% of
    the load on the back and another with the same load split about 60/40
    front rear you might change your mind!
    The last but one copy of Cycle had an article by Chris Juden about
    loading your bike, and it's worth hunting down to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads are envisaged
    for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest looking at splitting the
    weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special ones for
    recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry about heel clearance.
    Rear panniers for Serious Touring tend to be 40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite
    unusually large. In bigger sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended


    touring?

    Quoted message said:

    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all excellent.
    Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Pete.

    For my 3 weeks in Scotland last month I had Ortlieb Bikepacker Lite


    panniers

    Quoted message said:

    in back, small Vaude Panniers in front. The Vaude panniers were good, but
    the Ortlieb were far better. Even with the rain covers that the Vaudes


    came

    Quoted message said:

    with, the Ortliebs kept my gear much drier. The Ortliebs were also much
    easier to take off and put back on the bike, which I appreciated more and
    more as the tour went on.

    Defiitely consider splittling the load front and rear- the improved weight
    distribution makes the bike much easier to handle. I had front and rear
    panniers, a small seatbag (tools/spare tube) and a handlebar bag, al of
    shich helped with organizing my gear as well as with weight distribution.
    --
    mark


    Thanks all for your advice. To be honest I had never really considered that
    front panniers
    would actually stabilise a loaded bike! I guess I have some more reading to
    do....

    The reason why I was looking into packing so much is that part of me just
    wants to take the
    time off work, hop on the bike and see where it takes me - wherever that may
    be, and for anything
    up to 3 weeks. That would be some journey! If/when I do it, I'll post my
    adventures here...

    Cheers.

  13. "Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I saw a 60 litre


    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    Loading on the front is good.

    http://tranchant.plus.com/cycling/france-1996/ft1-2

    My bike is the one on the right. The lowrider front panniers were
    essential as we were camping and had quite a lot to carry. The loaded
    front made the otherwise twitchy Peugeot much more relaxing to ride.
    You'll see I even had tri-bars fitted, which were a pleasure to settle
    down onto once my hands and arms got a bit tired.

    Once we arrived and I removed the fronts, the unfamiliar twitchiness
    nearly had me off the bike!

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for extended touring?


    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Camping, or not? Whichever, pack as light as you can. Don't take stuff
    all the way around your tour and not use it at all.

    As far as recommendations go, I've been using a single largish (45l?)
    rear Karrimor Kalahari (I think) for commuting for several years now.
    Very tough with an excellent quick-release.

    --
    Mark.

    Mark, thanks for the info! I'll definitely be looking into some front
    lo-rider type
    panniers. Don't know about the aero-bars, as my hybrid doesn't have drops.
    Might look a bit weird asking for them, but I can sure understand that they
    would
    be doing your hands a big favour!

    Nice little trip diary you've put together there. My digital camera arrives
    next week,
    and that is one thing I'm hoping to do when I come back, put together a
    photo type
    journal of all my travels. Sure looks like you had a great time.

  14. Quoted message said:

    Thanks all for your advice. To be honest I had never really considered


    that

    Quoted message said:

    front panniers
    would actually stabilise a loaded bike! I guess I have some more reading


    to

    Quoted message said:

    do....

    I've found this thread extremely useful. I'm doing a Big Ride later on in
    the year & was beginning to ponder the subject of how to carry my stuff.

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone mentioned it in
    another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on the Orbit site, I note. I
    was seriously considered getting one, until I realised that it possibly
    won't be viable because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to
    the starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train (unless it
    can be carried as hand luggage when not in use, which I'm not sure
    is feasible).

    So it looks like panniers is the way to go for me personally.

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear panniers? I see
    Ortleib have some specific front ones at 25l. Do people use ones like
    this with smaller capacities on the front and larger ones on the
    back? Can you get smaller ones than 25l for the front?

    Thanks for any thoughts.

    Mark

  15. Mark said:

    was seriously considered getting one, until I realised that it possibly
    won't be viable because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to
    the starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train (unless it
    can be carried as hand luggage when not in use, which I'm not sure
    is feasible).

    Call up the relevant train company and ask is one option, another (which
    I would use) is book on your bike and just turn up with the BOB: they're
    not /that/ big, certainly no worse than many a suitcase I've seen on
    trains that looked more like outtakes from the 2001 props dept. than
    viable luggage!

    Quoted message said:

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear panniers? I see
    Ortleib have some specific front ones at 25l. Do people use ones like
    this with smaller capacities on the front and larger ones on the
    back? Can you get smaller ones than 25l for the front?

    Try and split your weight ~60/40. A typical lowrider rack is fairly
    close to the ground (hence the name) so smaller bags are generally
    necessary there. These usually combine with a bigger set behind, in
    Ortlieb's case 40l. Note these volumes are for the pair, a 12.5 l bag
    is pretty small to start with. You can get smaller ones, my old
    Carradice Carraduras are 10l each. Much smaller than that wouldn't
    really be worth it IMHO. There's no reason not to use a smaller pannier
    on the back as well, and even ones sold as lowriders should fit on a
    rear rack okay.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  16. Gonzalez said:

    Front panniers give the
    bike superb handling - don't write off the idea.

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does not bugger up
    the bike's handling nearly as badly as putting it all on the back. Not
    /quite/ the same thing as "give the bike superb handling"!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  17. Peter Clinch said:

    Gonzalez wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Front panniers give the
    bike superb handling - don't write off the idea.

    Quoted message said:

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does not bugger up
    the bike's handling nearly as badly as putting it all on the back. Not
    /quite/ the same thing as "give the bike superb handling"!

    Unless you enjoy doing wheelies in which case heavy rear panniers *do*
    give suberb handling :-)

    Roos

  18. in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

    (') said:

    I've found this thread extremely useful. I'm doing a Big Ride later on
    in the year & was beginning to ponder the subject of how to carry my
    stuff.

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone mentioned it
    in another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on the Orbit site, I note.
    I was seriously considered getting one, until I realised that it
    possibly won't be viable because my Big Ride involves a train journey
    to get to the starting point, and I think that there may be issues
    with transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train (unless
    it can be carried as hand luggage when not in use, which I'm not sure
    is feasible).

    In my experience (and it was twenty-odd years ago I was doing this
    regularly) bike + trailer on the train is a lot easier than bike + a
    lot of heavy panniers on the train. I never had a guard object to the
    trailer, which is, after all, not much different to a wheeled suitcase.

    If you have a bike (which is an awkward thing to lift anyway) burdened
    down with panniers it becomes an exceedingly awkward thing. I recall
    often getting my bike and trailer off a train, hitched up and ready to
    go while other cyclists were still struggling to get their heavily
    loaded bikes through the door.

    In those days I was (as I'm sure everyone here knows by now) using a
    bike hod. For fast touring it's probably not the best trailer but it is
    exceedingly easy to manouvre off the bike, being to all intents and
    purposes a large shopping trolley. So it was extremely easy to get it
    on and off the train. <URL:http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html>

    Quoted message said:

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear panniers? I see
    Ortleib have some specific front ones at 25l. Do people use ones like
    this with smaller capacities on the front and larger ones on the
    back? Can you get smaller ones than 25l for the front?

    If you're going for panniers be sure to get a 'low-rider' type front
    rack - one which puts the centre of gravity of the panniers behind
    and/or below projected axis of the steering head - otherwise you can
    get some _very_ odd steering effects. But, having use both, I stick to
    my opinion that a trailer is much better.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
    but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
    And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
    th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

  19. "Mark" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone mentioned it in
    another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on the Orbit site, I note. I
    was seriously considered getting one, until I realised that it possibly
    won't be viable because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to
    the starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train (unless it
    can be carried as hand luggage when not in use, which I'm not sure
    is feasible).

    Quoted message said:

    Mark


    If the train in question has a guard's van to put the bikes in, then a
    trailer wouldn't be a problem. If the bicycle arrangements consist of a
    space at one end of the passenger car with a pair of bike hooks, then a
    trailer is definintely not going to work. When I took the Caledonian Sleeper
    last April the bicycle rode in a guard's van, with the front wheel suspended
    from a hook on the wall. Very nice, except I had to remove the front
    panniers and deflate the (rather fat, 26 x 1.6"😉 front tire to get hoist the
    bike onto the hook. A trailer would have been a wonderful thing to have
    then. By contrast, when I took Virgin trains from Holyhead to London, the
    bicycle area was at one end of the passenger car, with room for two bicycles
    suspended by their top tubes from a pair of hooks at waist level. My bike
    and 4 panniers was easy to get in with barely room for a second bike, but a
    trailer absolutely would not have fit.
    --
    mark

  20. Peter Clinch said:
    Gonzalez said:

    Front panniers give the
    bike superb handling - don't write off the idea.

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does not bugger up
    the bike's handling nearly as badly as putting it all on the back. Not
    /quite/ the same thing as "give the bike superb handling"!

    I felt perfectly safe rolling round hairpin bends on Pyreneean passes
    at 35mph+. The extra weight makes the bike grip the road surface, low
    weight at the front give you a real feel for the bike, and you don't
    have to lean into the turn as much as you would have to on an unladen
    bike.

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