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Pannier Sizes

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UK and Europe
Published
17 June 2004
Last activity
26 June 2004
Original author
Randall Flagg
Posts
36
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  1. Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the
    Celtic Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose type
    touring in France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever turns up
    from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I haven't
    seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit to the
    size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have rear
    panniers than to load up on the front as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

  2. Randall Flagg <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    : can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    : thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    : haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    : limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    : just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    : as well.

    Why? You'll get much better handling with smaller rear
    ones and some small front ones than with a pair of huge
    rear ones.

    : Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    : extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    I assume you're not camping? If you're B&B'ing/hostelling
    I'd have thought two standard size rear panniers would hold
    plenty enough. If they don't, take less.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.org "Technolibertarians make a
    philosophy out of a personality defect"
    - Paulina Borsook

  3. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy bike
    with 100% of the load on the back and another with the same
    load split about 60/40 front rear you might change your
    mind! The last but one copy of Cycle had an article by Chris
    Juden about loading your bike, and it's worth hunting down
    to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads are
    envisaged for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest looking
    at splitting the weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special ones
    for recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry about
    heel clearance. Rear panniers for Serious Touring tend to be
    40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite unusually large. In bigger
    sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all
    excellent. Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Don't forget you can add bar bags to even up the weight
    distribution a bit. Or if you want a really good size load
    get a BOB Yak single wheel trailer.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
    ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
    640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
    [email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  4. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    We use Jannd mountain expedition panniers, which I think
    claim 110 litres for a pair (that's with the top fully
    extended, which we don't usually need).

    That's for camping tours on a tandem with no front
    panniers, though.

    James

  5. Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    Loading on the front is good.

    tranchant.plus.comft1 2

    My bike is the one on the right. The lowrider front panniers
    were essential as we were camping and had quite a lot to
    carry. The loaded front made the otherwise twitchy Peugeot
    much more relaxing to ride. You'll see I even had tri-bars
    fitted, which were a pleasure to settle down onto once my
    hands and arms got a bit tired.

    Once we arrived and I removed the fronts, the unfamiliar
    twitchiness nearly had me off the bike!

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    Camping, or not? Whichever, pack as light as you can.
    Don't take stuff all the way around your tour and not use
    it at all.

    As far as recommendations go, I've been using a single
    largish (45l?) rear Karrimor Kalahari (I think) for
    commuting for several years now. Very tough with an
    excellent quick-release.

    --
    Mark.

  6. Randall Flagg said:


    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the
    Celtic Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose
    type touring in France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever
    turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    If you *do* have to carry so much then a front set will
    improve bike handling no end. But I'd seriously give some
    more thought to why you need to carry so much. There is a
    rule that the more space you have the more unnecessary stuff
    you will carry.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    I use Ortlieb 30L Sport Packer Plus, and that's for
    camping as well.

    John B

  7. Randall Flagg said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the
    Celtic Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose
    type touring in France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever
    turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

    Jobst Brandt does an annual tour of the Alps lasting 20 or
    more days with the following kit and using a Carradice
    Nelson saddlebag. He's not camping, though.

    See www-www-
    math.science.unitn.it/Bike/General/Packing_List.html

    CLOTHING Cycling shorts and Jersey (2ea) Socks (2pr)
    Undershorts Undershirts Cycling shoes Sweater Cold weather
    gloves Slacks and shirt Rain cape or waterproof parka shell
    (with hood) Cycling cap with visor (for sunburn protection)
    Helmet Sun glasses

    MECHANICAL Pump Spare tire and tube Patch kit Tire levers
    Spokes w. nipples (2 of each length) Spoke wrench Freewheel
    remover for your specific freewheel Cone wrenches (pair) T-
    wrench, L-wrench for derailleurs etc. Chain tool Screwdriver
    (pencil size) 6 inch adjustable wrench Rear axle (for non
    cassette hub)

    SUNDRIES Passport (if necessary) Address book Money (cash
    and travelers checks) ATM (Bancomat) and VISA/MC card(s)
    Camera (and accessories) Film for entire trip Maps Tooth
    brush Comb Nail clipper Pen Shaver Pocket Knife Spoon Salve,
    sun lotion, chap stick Plastic produce bags (4+) Tape, white
    adhesive or duct tape Pocket calculator (for currency
    computations) Can opener Matches (or lighter)

    TOOLS required to assemble bike at point of departure Crank
    extractor Crank bolt wrench Spare crank bolt (in case one
    breaks on assembly)

    --
    Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "They never open their
    mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."
    - Thomas Brackett Reed www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
    www.macclancy.co.uk

  8. "Peter Clinch" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike,
    so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I
    saw a 60 litre


    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise
    that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to
    have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy bike
    with 100% of the load on the back and another with the
    same load split about 60/40 front rear you might change
    your mind! The last but one copy of Cycle had an article
    by Chris Juden about loading your bike, and it's worth
    hunting down to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads
    are envisaged for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest
    looking at splitting the weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special
    ones for recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry
    about heel clearance. Rear panniers for Serious Touring
    tend to be 40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite unusually large. In
    bigger sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring?


    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all
    excellent. Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Pete.

    For my 3 weeks in Scotland last month I had Ortlieb
    Bikepacker Lite panniers in back, small Vaude Panniers in
    front. The Vaude panniers were good, but the Ortlieb were
    far better. Even with the rain covers that the Vaudes came
    with, the Ortliebs kept my gear much drier. The Ortliebs
    were also much easier to take off and put back on the bike,
    which I appreciated more and more as the tour went on.

    Defiitely consider splittling the load front and rear- the
    improved weight distribution makes the bike much easier to
    handle. I had front and rear panniers, a small seatbag
    (tools/spare tube) and a handlebar bag, al of shich helped
    with organizing my gear as well as with weight distribution.
    --
    mark

  9. Randall Flagg said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the
    Celtic Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose
    type touring in France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever
    turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I haven't
    seen anything larger. I realise that there is a limit to
    the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to have
    rear panniers than to load up on the front as well.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring? ie. 2 weeks +

    Many thanks in advance....

    I have 60L rear panniers and 30L front panniers, plus a
    10L bar bag. My tent gets held onto the rack with bungys.
    Front panniers give the bike superb handling - don't write
    off the idea.

  10. in message <[email hidden]>, Randall Flagg

    (') said:

    Hi,

    I'm looking at doing some touring in September, either the
    Celtic Trail + detours or some towpath / follow my nose
    type touring in France (if my Lonely Planet guide ever
    turns up from Amazon.).

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike, so
    can anyone give me a clue as to the largest pannier size
    thats available. I saw a 60 litre pair today, but I
    haven't seen anything larger. I realise that there is a
    limit to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer
    just to have rear panniers than to load up on the front
    as well.

    Frankly putting all your gear into rear panniers is going to
    make your bike a pig to ride, and a pig to handle when
    you're off the bike. Consider a trailer; my advice would be
    a single wheeler such as a Bob Yak or a Weber Monoporter.
    They upset the handling a lot less.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon

    ;; For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that
    increaseth ;; knowledge increaseth sorrow.." -
    Ecclesiastes 1:18

  11. James Annan said:


    We use Jannd mountain expedition panniers, which I think
    claim 110 litres for a pair (that's with the top fully
    extended, which we don't usually need).

    That's for camping tours on a tandem with no front
    panniers, though.

    We tried camping with the tandem with Halfords old
    waterproof panniers on the rear, the tent (an old heavy
    Vango Force 10) on top of them, and Carradoce front panniers
    containing trangia, fuel, maps, waterproofs for the pilot
    and similar. We wanted bigger though, but a lot of space was
    taken by the old not-very-compact sleeping bags.

    With the same older equipment, we found 4 rear panniers, 2
    front and 2 bar bags just enough including food for 3 days
    and clothing for wet weather. It does pay to go for the
    lighter weight backpacking equipment, something we'll be
    getting hold of as our current equipment wears out.

    - Richard

    --
    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
    com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
    _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

  12. "mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter Clinch" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike,
    so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available.
    I saw a 60


    litre

    Quoted message said:

    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise
    that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just
    to have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    That's easy to say, but if you actually /try/ a heavy
    bike with 100% of the load on the back and another with
    the same load split about 60/40 front rear you might
    change your mind! The last but one copy of Cycle had an
    article by Chris Juden about loading your bike, and it's
    worth hunting down to have a look.

    If you're taking the sort of loads where 60 litre loads
    are envisaged for the panniers then I'd strongly suggest
    looking at splitting the weight fore and aft.

    The only panniers I've seen larger than 60l are special
    ones for recumbent bikes, where you don't have to worry
    about heel clearance. Rear panniers for Serious Touring
    tend to be 40 - 50 a pair, 60 is quite unusually large.
    In bigger sizes, make sure you have heel clearance.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended


    touring?

    Quoted message said:

    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Ortlieb, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe are all
    excellent. Waterproof can be a Cunning Plan.

    Pete.

    For my 3 weeks in Scotland last month I had Ortlieb
    Bikepacker Lite


    panniers

    Quoted message said:

    in back, small Vaude Panniers in front. The Vaude panniers
    were good, but the Ortlieb were far better. Even with the
    rain covers that the Vaudes


    came

    Quoted message said:

    with, the Ortliebs kept my gear much drier. The
    Ortliebs were also much easier to take off and put back
    on the bike, which I appreciated more and more as the
    tour went on.

    Defiitely consider splittling the load front and rear- the
    improved weight distribution makes the bike much easier to
    handle. I had front and rear panniers, a small seatbag
    (tools/spare tube) and a handlebar bag, al of shich helped
    with organizing my gear as well as with weight
    distribution.
    --
    mark


    Thanks all for your advice. To be honest I had never really
    considered that front panniers would actually stabilise a
    loaded bike! I guess I have some more reading to
    do....

    The reason why I was looking into packing so much is that
    part of me just wants to take the time off work, hop on the
    bike and see where it takes me - wherever that may be, and
    for anything up to 3 weeks. That would be some journey!
    If/when I do it, I'll post my adventures here...

    Cheers.

  13. "Mark Tranchant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Randall Flagg said:

    I'll be taking with me only what will fit on the bike,
    so can anyone


    give me

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a clue as to the largest pannier size thats available. I
    saw a 60 litre


    pair

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    today, but I haven't seen anything larger. I realise
    that there is a


    limit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to the size a pannier can be, but I would prefer just to
    have rear


    panniers

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than to load up on the front as well.

    Loading on the front is good.

    tranchant.plus.comft1 2

    My bike is the one on the right. The lowrider front
    panniers were essential as we were camping and had quite a
    lot to carry. The loaded front made the otherwise twitchy
    Peugeot much more relaxing to ride. You'll see I even had
    tri-bars fitted, which were a pleasure to settle down onto
    once my hands and arms got a bit tired.

    Once we arrived and I removed the fronts, the unfamiliar
    twitchiness nearly had me off the bike!

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any recommendations for panniers for
    extended touring?


    ie.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2 weeks +

    Camping, or not? Whichever, pack as light as you can.
    Don't take stuff all the way around your tour and not use
    it at all.

    As far as recommendations go, I've been using a single
    largish (45l?) rear Karrimor Kalahari (I think) for
    commuting for several years now. Very tough with an
    excellent quick-release.

    --
    Mark.

    Mark, thanks for the info! I'll definitely be looking into
    some front lo-rider type panniers. Don't know about the aero-
    bars, as my hybrid doesn't have drops. Might look a bit
    weird asking for them, but I can sure understand that they
    would be doing your hands a big favour!

    Nice little trip diary you've put together there. My digital
    camera arrives next week, and that is one thing I'm hoping
    to do when I come back, put together a photo type journal of
    all my travels. Sure looks like you had a great time.

  14. Quoted message said:

    Thanks all for your advice. To be honest I had never
    really considered


    that

    Quoted message said:

    front panniers would actually stabilise a loaded bike! I
    guess I have some more reading


    to

    Quoted message said:

    do....

    I've found this thread extremely useful. I'm doing a Big
    Ride later on in the year & was beginning to ponder the
    subject of how to carry my stuff.

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone
    mentioned it in another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on
    the Orbit site, I note. I was seriously considered getting
    one, until I realised that it possibly won't be viable
    because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to the
    starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train
    (unless it can be carried as hand luggage when not in use,
    which I'm not sure is feasible).

    So it looks like panniers is the way to go for me
    personally.

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear
    panniers? I see Ortleib have some specific front ones at
    25l. Do people use ones like this with smaller capacities on
    the front and larger ones on the back? Can you get smaller
    ones than 25l for the front?

    Thanks for any thoughts.

    Mark

  15. Mark said:

    was seriously considered getting one, until I realised
    that it possibly won't be viable because my Big Ride
    involves a train journey to get to the starting point, and
    I think that there may be issues with transporting the
    trailer as well as the bike on the train (unless it can be
    carried as hand luggage when not in use, which I'm not
    sure is feasible).

    Call up the relevant train company and ask is one option,
    another (which I would use) is book on your bike and just
    turn up with the BOB: they're not /that/ big, certainly
    no worse than many a suitcase I've seen on trains that
    looked more like outtakes from the 2001 props dept. than
    viable luggage!

    Quoted message said:

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear
    panniers? I see Ortleib have some specific front ones at
    25l. Do people use ones like this with smaller capacities
    on the front and larger ones on the back? Can you get
    smaller ones than 25l for the front?

    Try and split your weight ~60/40. A typical lowrider rack is
    fairly close to the ground (hence the name) so smaller bags
    are generally necessary there. These usually combine with a
    bigger set behind, in Ortlieb's case 40l. Note these volumes
    are for the pair, a 12.5 l bag is pretty small to start
    with. You can get smaller ones, my old Carradice Carraduras
    are 10l each. Much smaller than that wouldn't really be
    worth it IMHO. There's no reason not to use a smaller
    pannier on the back as well, and even ones sold as lowriders
    should fit on a rear rack okay.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
    ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
    640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
    [email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  16. Gonzalez said:

    Front panniers give the bike superb handling - don't write
    off the idea.

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does
    not bugger up the bike's handling nearly as badly as putting
    it all on the back. Not /quite/ the same thing as "give the
    bike superb handling"!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
    ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
    640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
    [email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  17. Peter Clinch said:

    Gonzalez wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Front panniers give the bike superb handling - don't
    write off the idea.

    Quoted message said:

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does
    not bugger up the bike's handling nearly as badly as
    putting it all on the back. Not /quite/ the same thing as
    "give the bike superb handling"!

    Unless you enjoy doing wheelies in which case heavy rear
    panniers *do* give suberb handling :-)

    Roos

  18. in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

    (') said:

    I've found this thread extremely useful. I'm doing a Big
    Ride later on in the year & was beginning to ponder the
    subject of how to carry my stuff.

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone
    mentioned it in another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on
    the Orbit site, I note. I was seriously considered getting
    one, until I realised that it possibly won't be viable
    because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to the
    starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train
    (unless it can be carried as hand luggage when not in use,
    which I'm not sure is feasible).

    In my experience (and it was twenty-odd years ago I was
    doing this regularly) bike + trailer on the train is a lot
    easier than bike + a lot of heavy panniers on the train. I
    never had a guard object to the trailer, which is, after
    all, not much different to a wheeled suitcase.

    If you have a bike (which is an awkward thing to lift
    anyway) burdened down with panniers it becomes an
    exceedingly awkward thing. I recall often getting my bike
    and trailer off a train, hitched up and ready to go while
    other cyclists were still struggling to get their heavily
    loaded bikes through the door.

    In those days I was (as I'm sure everyone here knows by now)
    using a bike hod. For fast touring it's probably not the
    best trailer but it is exceedingly easy to manouvre off the
    bike, being to all intents and purposes a large shopping
    trolley. So it was extremely easy to get it on and off the
    train. <URL:http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html>

    Quoted message said:

    My question is: what do people use for front & rear
    panniers? I see Ortleib have some specific front ones at
    25l. Do people use ones like this with smaller capacities
    on the front and larger ones on the back? Can you get
    smaller ones than 25l for the front?

    If you're going for panniers be sure to get a 'low-rider'
    type front rack - one which puts the centre of gravity of
    the panniers behind and/or below projected axis of the
    steering head - otherwise you can get some _very_ odd
    steering effects. But, having use both, I stick to my
    opinion that a trailer is much better.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon There's nae Gods, an
    there's precious few heroes but there's plenty on the dole
    in th Land o th Leal; And it's time now, tae sweep the
    future clear o th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

  19. "Mark" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I'd never considered a trailer, but did so after someone
    mentioned it in another thread. There are some Bob Yaks on
    the Orbit site, I note. I was seriously considered getting
    one, until I realised that it possibly won't be viable
    because my Big Ride involves a train journey to get to the
    starting point, and I think that there may be issues with
    transporting the trailer as well as the bike on the train
    (unless it can be carried as hand luggage when not in use,
    which I'm not sure is feasible).

    Quoted message said:

    Mark


    If the train in question has a guard's van to put the bikes
    in, then a trailer wouldn't be a problem. If the bicycle
    arrangements consist of a space at one end of the passenger
    car with a pair of bike hooks, then a trailer is definintely
    not going to work. When I took the Caledonian Sleeper last
    April the bicycle rode in a guard's van, with the front
    wheel suspended from a hook on the wall. Very nice, except I
    had to remove the front panniers and deflate the (rather
    fat, 26 x 1.6"😉 front tire to get hoist the bike onto the
    hook. A trailer would have been a wonderful thing to have
    then. By contrast, when I took Virgin trains from Holyhead
    to London, the bicycle area was at one end of the passenger
    car, with room for two bicycles suspended by their top tubes
    from a pair of hooks at waist level. My bike and 4 panniers
    was easy to get in with barely room for a second bike, but a
    trailer absolutely would not have fit.
    --
    mark

  20. Peter Clinch said:
    Gonzalez said:

    Front panniers give the bike superb handling - don't
    write off the idea.

    Clarification: a heavy load split well front and rear does
    not bugger up the bike's handling nearly as badly as
    putting it all on the back. Not /quite/ the same thing as
    "give the bike superb handling"!

    I felt perfectly safe rolling round hairpin bends on
    Pyreneean passes at 35mph+. The extra weight makes the bike
    grip the road surface, low weight at the front give you a
    real feel for the bike, and you don't have to lean into the
    turn as much as you would have to on an unladen bike.

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