OT: at wits end

BrightStar said:

My mom is 53. Diagnosed diabetic years ago. Suffers from fibromyalgia,
emphysema, asthma, allergies, etc. 60lbs overweight.

I love her to death, which is where I think she's headed.

Her doctor has had her on so many meds over the years that I'm sure it's
done irreparable harm to her body.

She smokes a pack a day. She takes diabetic meds, Lipitor, and heart meds.
She eats bowls of ice cream, chocolate bars.... or doesn't eat all day and
has toast for dinner. I have been trying and trying to get her to cut out
starches/sugar/bread for the last year. She 'doesn't like' vegetables, and
is apparently allergic to dairy, so figures there would be nothing else for
her to eat. She is petulant about changing her diet.

Yesterday her sugar went really high and she was off work due to the dizzy
spells -- she really scares me.

I realize that I can't do it for her, but [censored], I'm [censored]. She's gonna
kill herself through apathy.

I was really fed up this morning and sent her this email. Was I too harsh?

It's not the harshness that's the problem. You can't advise her this
way. You aren't qualified. Your advice might kill her if she follows
it without support and monitoring by a doctor.

Quoted message said:

"You know, you're scaring me with all the drugs you're taking. Do you know
how much damage you've done to your body over the years?
All I ask is that you cut out ALL the pills for three months and seriously
control your diabetes through your eating. Doing a little bit of exercise
once or twice a week is good, but you have really got to take control. Cut
out ALL (and I mean ALL) bread, sugar, and starches (potatos). Eat more
vegetables, drink lots of water -- I don't care if you don't like them --
you're not six years old -- this is your LIFE -- you're gonna die because of
this -- you must find the strength to do it.

I did some research -- Lipitor is intended for people who CAN'T control
cholesterol through diet and exercise (ie; genetic predisposition) and is a
lifelong therapy. You CAN control it -- relying on drugs is more than
harmful -- it's weak, and it's gonna kill you.

I sound harsh because I'm really getting mad and fed up -- nobody can do
this for you, but if you can't do it for yourself and your kids and
grandkids, I'm to the point I don't want to hear it. Aren't you tired of
feeling like this?

Take control, dammit."

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not the harshness that's the problem. You can't advise her this
way. You aren't qualified. Your advice might kill her if she follows
it without support and monitoring by a doctor.

I realize that - but all those meds have NOT helped her at all over the
years. Her doctor ASKS her if she wants perscriptions for things.

Quoted message said:

"BrightStar" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

My mom is 53. Diagnosed diabetic years ago. Suffers from fibromyalgia,
emphysema, asthma, allergies, etc. 60lbs overweight.

I love her to death, which is where I think she's headed.

Her doctor has had her on so many meds over the years that I'm sure it's
done irreparable harm to her body.

She smokes a pack a day. She takes diabetic meds, Lipitor, and heart meds.
She eats bowls of ice cream, chocolate bars.... or doesn't eat all day and
has toast for dinner. I have been trying and trying to get her to cut out
starches/sugar/bread for the last year. She 'doesn't like' vegetables, and
is apparently allergic to dairy, so figures there would be nothing else for
her to eat. She is petulant about changing her diet.

Yesterday her sugar went really high and she was off work due to the dizzy
spells -- she really scares me.

I realize that I can't do it for her, but [censored], I'm [censored]. She's gonna
kill herself through apathy.

I was really fed up this morning and sent her this email. Was I too harsh?

"You know, you're scaring me with all the drugs you're taking. Do you know
how much damage you've done to your body over the years?
All I ask is that you cut out ALL the pills for three months and seriously
control your diabetes through your eating. Doing a little bit of exercise
once or twice a week is good, but you have really got to take control. Cut
out ALL (and I mean ALL) bread, sugar, and starches (potatos). Eat more
vegetables, drink lots of water -- I don't care if you don't like them --
you're not six years old -- this is your LIFE -- you're gonna die because of
this -- you must find the strength to do it.

I did some research -- Lipitor is intended for people who CAN'T control
cholesterol through diet and exercise (ie; genetic predisposition) and is a
lifelong therapy. You CAN control it -- relying on drugs is more than
harmful -- it's weak, and it's gonna kill you.

I sound harsh because I'm really getting mad and fed up -- nobody can do
this for you, but if you can't do it for yourself and your kids and
grandkids, I'm to the point I don't want to hear it. Aren't you tired of
feeling like this?

Take control, dammit."

I won't nitpick the details of the letter, but I think you did the right thing.
Sometimes harshness from someone who cares for us shakes us up and makes us
think.

I'm close to your mom's age, and my best friend is 52, about 150 pounds
overweight, and a smoker. She's a well-educated professional with a great job,
wonderful family, outside interests that excite her, and some kind of impulse
that's making her self-destruct. It drives me nuts. I just want to shake her
some days, but I've taken a gentler approach. Still, I hope her husband or
kids confront her some day the way you confronted your mom.

If your mom can quit smoking, that would be a great first step. But it sounds
like her doing anything would be an improvement, because it sounds like she
doesn't want to change.

My dad smoked and ate poorly until he had a medical emergency and woke up in
the hospital a week later with stitches running most of the length of his trunk
from an extensive multiple bypass operation. It scared him into a healthy
lifestyle. One of his friends also had multiple bypass and continued smoking,
eating bad foods, and not exercising. The point is that some people can be
shaken up, and some can't.

Good luck with your mom. You were brave to write that e-mail, but it was the
right thing to do, even if she gets mad at you for it. Hang in there, and hang
tough with her. Anything that makes her think about what she's doing to
herself -- and her kids and grandkids -- is a positive at this point.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

Quoted message said:

I was really fed up this morning and sent her this email. Was I too

harsh?

If not you, then who? Her doctor doesn't sound like someone who will try to
get her to live healthier. Plus, you went about it the right way by
expressing how you're angry and scared...and you didn't get preachy. She's
not going to like hearing it, but you're a good daughter for speaking up.

Now just be sure to be there to help her when she's ready to make a change.
S t a c i

BrightStar said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not the harshness that's the problem. You can't advise her this
way. You aren't qualified. Your advice might kill her if she follows
it without support and monitoring by a doctor.

I realize that - but all those meds have NOT helped her at all over the
years. Her doctor ASKS her if she wants perscriptions for things.

But discontinuing a long term drug regimen can't just be done cold
turkey.

BrightStar said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not the harshness that's the problem. You can't advise her this
way. You aren't qualified. Your advice might kill her if she follows
it without support and monitoring by a doctor.

I realize that - but all those meds have NOT helped her at all over the
years. Her doctor ASKS her if she wants perscriptions for things.

She may or may not need those drugs, and be worse without them.
I find it peculiar that your letter said nothing about quitting smoking,
since you said she has emphysema and asthma and is on some kind of
medication for her heart.

Unless you're willing to cook some interesting and easy lowcarb
dishes for her, and introduce her to some new veggies, lecturing her
on eating badly is probably not going to be very helpful.

I don't see how she can be allergic to dairy if she's eating bowls
of ice cream. If you're actually referring to lactose intolerance,
in some people, lactose intolerance is a symptom of mild wheat
intolerance, and only causes digestive problems when eating both
dairy and wheat. I discovered that was the case with me, shortly
after I started low-carbing.

--
jamie ([email hidden])

"There's a seeker born every minute."

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carmen said:

"Too harsh" is hard to judge without knowing your mother. Advising
her to cut out all meds for 3 months is not a good idea though.
That sounds like an excellent way to bring on a health crisis. There
are certain medications that must be tapered down. Additionally, if
she's taking diabetic meds and still having dangerously high blood
sugars she may *not* be able to ever control her blood sugar levels
with diet and exercise alone. Beyond a certain level of damage to the
beta cells medication is necessary.

Your assertion that your mother is capable of controlling her
cholesterol levels with diet and exercise is merely a supposition on
your part. Again, she may not be able to control it with diet and
exercise alone.

My suggestion to you would be to mend some fences with your mom. Some
of your statements were incorrect. Explain they resulted from fear
and love and frustration. Hopefully she'll understand.

Very well said. The OP is not qualified to give medical advise, and
following hers might do her mother serious damage. Not to mention she
doesn't mention the worst thing her mother is doing -- smoking!

Priscilla

Quoted message said:

Very well said. The OP is not qualified to give medical advise, and
following hers might do her mother serious damage. Not to mention she
doesn't mention the worst thing her mother is doing -- smoking!

Priscilla

Hi everyone, my post was out of frustration and anger, not malicious
intent -- I don't want to to really give up all her meds -- it was an
example of my level of frustration with her. And it's not like she'd
actually do it.

She has never tried to control her diabetes through diet -- if her sugars go
down, she figures she can have more sweets - if they go up, she lays off.
She will not do anything to help her situation except take more
medication -- new ones, trial ones, 'just for a week' ones -- it drives me
nuts. I just want her to TRY.

And the the 'smoking' is an issue that has been beaten to death. If she
won't give up ice cream as a diabetic, do you think she has the willpower to
quit smoking? I think she loves to say she's allergic to cigarette smoke
and has asthma, but still smokes -- it's some way of rebelling -- against
what I have no idea. When she wheezes and says she's out of breath, she
does not blame the cigarettes, she blames the asthma. HELLO? I feel like
shaking her sometimes.

How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves? It's like
dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not caring
because she doesn't.

In article <[email hidden]>,

BrightStar said:

Quoted message said:

Very well said. The OP is not qualified to give medical advise, and
following hers might do her mother serious damage. Not to mention she
doesn't mention the worst thing her mother is doing -- smoking!

Priscilla

Hi everyone, my post was out of frustration and anger, not malicious
intent -- I don't want to to really give up all her meds -- it was an
example of my level of frustration with her. And it's not like she'd
actually do it.

She has never tried to control her diabetes through diet -- if her sugars go
down, she figures she can have more sweets - if they go up, she lays off.
She will not do anything to help her situation except take more
medication -- new ones, trial ones, 'just for a week' ones -- it drives me
nuts. I just want her to TRY.

And the the 'smoking' is an issue that has been beaten to death. If she
won't give up ice cream as a diabetic, do you think she has the willpower to
quit smoking? I think she loves to say she's allergic to cigarette smoke
and has asthma, but still smokes -- it's some way of rebelling -- against
what I have no idea. When she wheezes and says she's out of breath, she
does not blame the cigarettes, she blames the asthma. HELLO? I feel like
shaking her sometimes.

How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves? It's like
dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not caring
because she doesn't.

Ah, good. I'm glad you recognize the parallel to addiction. I think
you need to treat yourself as if she were an alcoholic and check out
some adult child Al-Anon meetings. The problem you're experiencing is
called co-dependency, and you can get help with it. You can't fix your
mother, you can't cure your mother, and you can't control your mother.
But you can get help for yourself. Check out Al-Anon Family Groups in
your local phone book.

Good luck!

Priscilla

BrightStar said:

Quoted message said:

Very well said. The OP is not qualified to give medical advise, and
following hers might do her mother serious damage. Not to mention she
doesn't mention the worst thing her mother is doing -- smoking!

Priscilla

Hi everyone, my post was out of frustration and anger, not malicious
intent -- I don't want to to really give up all her meds -- it was an
example of my level of frustration with her. And it's not like she'd
actually do it.

I understand your frustration, but by sending the letter to her, with
it's obviously "over the top, not gonna happen" demands, her first
reaction will be to dismiss it all. It's just loud rhetoric.

How do you deal with someone who won't help themselves?

You can't.

You can't.

You can't.

You cannot change someone else. You can only change you.

Sad, frustrating, but true.

Jennifer

BrightStar wrote:
::: Very well said. The OP is not qualified to give medical advise, and
::: following hers might do her mother serious damage. Not to mention
::: she doesn't mention the worst thing her mother is doing -- smoking!
:::
::: Priscilla
::
:: Hi everyone, my post was out of frustration and anger, not malicious
:: intent -- I don't want to to really give up all her meds -- it was an
:: example of my level of frustration with her. And it's not like she'd
:: actually do it.
::
:: She has never tried to control her diabetes through diet -- if her
:: sugars go down, she figures she can have more sweets - if they go
:: up, she lays off. She will not do anything to help her situation
:: except take more
:: medication -- new ones, trial ones, 'just for a week' ones -- it
:: drives me nuts. I just want her to TRY.
::
:: And the the 'smoking' is an issue that has been beaten to death. If
:: she won't give up ice cream as a diabetic, do you think she has the
:: willpower to quit smoking? I think she loves to say she's
:: allergic to cigarette smoke and has asthma, but still smokes -- it's
:: some way of rebelling -- against what I have no idea. When she
:: wheezes and says she's out of breath, she does not blame the
:: cigarettes, she blames the asthma. HELLO? I feel like shaking her
:: sometimes.
::
:: How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves? It's
:: like dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not
:: caring because she doesn't.

I feel badly for you, BrightStar. I just don't think there is much you can
do if you mother doesn't see the need for any changes. I think some things
in life just have to be accepted. Be strong.

"BrightStar" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

She has never tried to control her diabetes through diet -- if her sugars

go

Quoted message said:

down, she figures she can have more sweets - if they go up, she lays off.
She will not do anything to help her situation except take more
medication

This kind of sums up what a few people like to think. Hoping for the
magic pill to fix their ailments instead of doing the right thing, which is
percieved as too hard.
You may have to except the situation as it stands. You have said what
you needed to. The rest is up to her. Worrying about her too much may result
in your own life being stressed out. It is difficult to know how much a
person should interfere with the way someone else does things. It is obvious
that your statements are out of frustration and love. Hope everything works
out with you and your Mom.
Tom
210/180/180

"BrightStar" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4M0Zc.116327
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves?

Though it's easy to see why you're so upset and why you'd write such a
letter, it will unfortunately do nothing.

Aside from more angry letters, you have two choices:

1) You can change how you react to her not helping herself, or
2) You can cut off all contact with her.

*Nothing* you could say or do will change her. Nothing.

It's like

Quoted message said:

dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not caring
because she doesn't.

It's very much like dealing with an addict. I have a long history of
dealing with family members like this (including watching my diabetic
father-in-law kill himself with food and apathy), and the secret to
sanity in such situations--if you don't want to completely cut off
contact--is to change *your own* behavior.

Example:

Don't like that she's smoking? Don't buy cigarettes for her. Leave her
house if she lights up. Demand that she leave your house if she lights
up there. Leave a restaurant if she lights up. None of this will change
her behavior, but it will let her know that you don't support her
behavior.

You only have control of your own behavior, not hers. You will never
change her. Ever.

Not even a little bit.

Cate

Hi,

BrightStar said:

Hi everyone, my post was out of frustration and anger, not malicious
intent -- I don't want to to really give up all her meds -- it was
an example of my level of frustration with her. And it's not like
she'd actually do it.

Snip

Quoted message said:

How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves? It's
like dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not
caring because she doesn't.

Unfortunately you really can't make another adult do anything for
themself. Some of the suggestions other posters had - not allowing
smoking in your home for example - are good ones. The addict analogy
was spot on. Don't be an enabler (again, the poster who said not to
buy her cigarettes is right) and try to disengage yourself from
feeling responsible for your mom's behavior. You aren't. Love your
mom while she's here.

Take care,
Carmen

BrightStar said:

My mom is 53. Diagnosed diabetic years ago. Suffers from fibromyalgia,
emphysema, asthma, allergies, etc. 60lbs overweight.

I love her to death, which is where I think she's headed.

I sound harsh because I'm really getting mad and fed up -- nobody can do
this for you, but if you can't do it for yourself and your kids and
grandkids, I'm to the point I don't want to hear it. Aren't you tired of
feeling like this?

Great! Now go take out a smokin' life insurance policy on her, and you've
got a win-win situation!

KeS

I dont think your letter is too harsh, and I'm not a medical type person so
I cant comment on that part either.

The problem with the letter that I see .. is that you have not yet realized
that you cannot change these behaviours.
She has to change these behaviours and no one can do it for her.. or make
her do it for herself.. until
she is ready to change.

I quit smoking, and I have days where I would like to chew the wall paper
off just because I feel like that and if I had been pushed into quitting
smoking.. in the worst times... there is nothing that would keep me from
lighting up.. cause my heart wouldnt be there.. I had to want to change my
behaviour. And that is what keeps me from smoking..

And I believe its the same way for over eating.. drinking... doing anything
unhealthy for us... we are the only ones that can stop the behavior.. and
for some .... it will not ever happen.

Offering alternatives is a good thing.. Offering your support to help the
person through a change is a good thing. Opening doors to help them think
about changing.. is a good thing.
Forcing them to change is not.

You have tried to help, and are available to help at any time....but you
will likely not change even one behaviour she is doing.

Your efforts would be better served in educating your children to make the
most healthy choices they can make for themselves and know that at least
*here* you will make a big difference in thier lives and futures. *which you
most likely are already doing* :0)

When your mum is ready, if ever, help her, until then. Help yourself.

Penny M

Quoted message said:

BrightStar wrote:

Quoted message said:

She has never tried to control her diabetes through diet -- if her sugars go
down, she figures she can have more sweets - if they go up, she lays off.
She will not do anything to help her situation except take more
medication -- new ones, trial ones, 'just for a week' ones -- it drives me
nuts. I just want her to TRY.

And the the 'smoking' is an issue that has been beaten to death. If she
won't give up ice cream as a diabetic, do you think she has the willpower to
quit smoking? I think she loves to say she's allergic to cigarette smoke
and has asthma, but still smokes -- it's some way of rebelling -- against
what I have no idea. When she wheezes and says she's out of breath, she
does not blame the cigarettes, she blames the asthma. HELLO? I feel like
shaking her sometimes.

How do you deal with someone who just won't help themselves? It's like
dealing with an addict. I have almost resigned myself to not caring
because she doesn't.

Your mother sounds exactly like my aunt. I just love her and accept her the
way she is.

But because she is my aunt and not my mother, this issue is easier for me to
deal with than yours.

I hope somehow you can resolve this. Sometimes there are no easy answers.

Yvonne

Hi,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My mom is 53. Diagnosed diabetic years ago. Suffers from
fibromyalgia, emphysema, asthma, allergies, etc. 60lbs overweight.

I love her to death, which is where I think she's headed.

I sound harsh because I'm really getting mad and fed up -- nobody
can do this for you, but if you can't do it for yourself and your
kids
and grandkids, I'm to the point I don't want to hear it. Aren't
you
tired of feeling like this?

Great! Now go take out a smokin' life insurance policy on her, and
you've got a win-win situation!

Ah, the sensitive type of male. Rare breed indeed. One for my life
list... ;-)

Take care,
Carmen