Osama Bin Laden has been killed!



Originally Posted by davereo .





This is a war on Terrorism. Bin Laden got what he had coming. If you cant see that you are blind. When others step up to take his place they can be prepared to join him.
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Good to know you're not the kind to allow your emotions to control you...where's them glasses?...Words spoken by another "red-blooded American"/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif...Apparently obvious you get all your news from TV and newspapers - that's a shame, but typical...
 
You are assuming a very strange stance, TZ. You are basically saying that anyone who believes the news is being taken for a ride. My stance is that I will probably never know what truly transpired in that mansion. What I take from the news reports is that he's most likely dead. Even that's not sure, but it is the baseline, identifiable claim of the news reports. The basis you're arguing from is either that the news is wrong, despite the fact that you have no knowledge to the contrary or the fact that you have some proprietary knowledge which no one else has. I'm assuming the former. So in light of that the following will be my counter argument to you. I think you'll find I've put an equal amount if thought in to it and that it's actually the same argument. I think you're wrong.
 
Originally Posted by cyberlegend1994 .

Since this thread has turned into a political rant, I moved it to the Soap Box.
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LOL! That's where it should've started out - suprised you couldn't see that ahead of time...Sorry I'm not sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya with you guys and touting the praises of OBL's (alleged) death - isn't that what the "Bike Cafe" is all about; like-minded forum members all agreeing with each other, holding hands and beating our collective chests about a job well-done?

The US government relies on symbolism to mobilize its "red-blooded Americans" to open up their pocket books and send their sons and daughters to fight foreign wars regardless how dubious the nature. OBL was the current symbol for the Bogeyman; so the Bogeyman is (allegedly) dead. Makes for some happy "red-blooded Americans". Now let reality sink in after the next IED explodes, unfortunately taking with it more American lives - but hey, we got the (current) Bogeyman...
 
Originally Posted by bkwitche .

You are assuming a very strange stance, TZ. You are basically saying that anyone who believes the news is being taken for a ride.

My stance is that I will probably never know what truly transpired in that mansion. What I take from the news reports is that he's most likely dead. Even that's not sure, but it is the baseline, identifiable claim of the news reports.

The basis you're arguing from is either that the news is wrong, despite the fact that you have no knowledge to the contrary or the fact that you have some proprietary knowledge which no one else has. I'm assuming the former.

So in light of that the following will be my counter argument to you. I think you'll find I've put an equal amount if thought in to it and that it's actually the same argument.

I think you're wrong.
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your assumptions are not becoming of you (and you already know what they do for you), but you're entitled to your opinion...
 
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .
The US government relies on symbolism to mobilize its "red-blooded Americans" to open up their pocket books and send their sons and daughters to fight foreign wars regardless how dubious the nature. OBL was the current symbol for the Bogeyman; so the Bogeyman is (allegedly) dead. Makes for some happy "red-blooded Americans". Now let reality sink in after the next IED explodes, unfortunately taking with it more American lives - but hey, we got the (current) Bogeyman...
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I agree that we have some strange although perhaps expedient alliances and have not always used the best judgment in our foreign policies. And I feel that the invasion of Iraq was totally unjustified and was counter-productive. But when a person organizes a violent attack against you, you should make all effort to punish him and stop him from doing more of the same regardless of the reasons that motivated him.
 
tonyzackery said:
Quote: Originally Posted by bkwitche .

You are assuming a very strange stance, TZ. You are basically saying that anyone who believes the news is being taken for a ride.

My stance is that I will probably never know what truly transpired in that mansion. What I take from the news reports is that he's most likely dead. Even that's not sure, but it is the baseline, identifiable claim of the news reports.

The basis you're arguing from is either that the news is wrong, despite the fact that you have no knowledge to the contrary or the fact that you have some proprietary knowledge which no one else has. I'm assuming the former.

So in light of that the following will be my counter argument to you. I think you'll find I've put an equal amount if thought in to it and that it's actually the same argument.

I think you're wrong.

your assumptions are not becoming of you (and you already know what they do for you), but you're entitled to your opinion...
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More non answers. And the only 'assumption' I made was that you didn't have some knowledge that no one else is privy to. If I'm wrong on that account, then please inform me on the topic and I'll be happy to apologize.
 
Good and innocent people die everyday from violent acts and few shed tears for them. Don't see why I should bother with this individual.
 
^^^ LOL! How'd you know I'd been ballin' my eyes out for OBL? Is it really that obvious???/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Strawman here, there, everywhere...and this is the comment that breaks the silence???...well, in actuality the silence speaks volumes...

And no - I don't have any knowledge you're not privy to - no clandestine source, simply I choose not to believe nor rely on most things I read and hear from many mainstream "news" (morelike propaganda) sources...
 
Ding Dong the wicked $%&# is dead. Next... HooYah!

Not celebrating his or any other human's killing. Not elated that there is justice or revenge in the world ... just satisfied that one additional intentional threat to the lives of innocent people has been systematically removed. On to the next.

With persistence the world will hopefully break the spine of political movements that work via violence rather than debate.

... of course all things are relative. America started how?
 
Originally Posted by sitzmark .

Ding Dong the wicked $%&# is dead. Next... HooYah!

Not celebrating his or any other human's killing. Not elated that there is justice or revenge in the world ... just satisfied that one additional intentional threat to the lives of innocent people has been systematically removed. On to the next.

With persistence the world will hopefully break the spine of political movements that work via violence rather than debate.

... of course all things are relative. America started how?
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How many contradictions can a person fit into a comment?

I suppose this is good "red-blooded American" sentiment - sad commentary if it truly is...
 
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-us-changes-story

and the rest of the story...

Here ya' go - the truth that gets buried behind the attention-grabbing headlines and soundbites many like to hold cherish...

Seek and ye shall find - seek not and remain blind...or continue to allow your emotions free reign - your choice, of course...
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Since I wasn't there, I am not 100% certain of what happened. I do know from prior experience that in an operation like this, first reports from the primaries tend to be sketchy and full of holes. Unfortunately political spokesmen and the media cannot sit back and tell the public that they will bring forth a full and accurate account of the news when they get all of the facts. They all feel that they need to be the first to report. And in this time of instant gratification required, I don't think that the public would be patient enough to wait. So the spokesmen and media tend to make assumptions of what has happened, and it often is not the real true story. Now that the primaries have been debriefed, it is apparent (and my source is the same media that brought me the first story...sorry) that OBL was unarmed. However, the operators had instructions that they were only to take OBL if he posed no threat what so ever. Unfortunately for him, it was too easy to conceal an IED in the robes that he wore. In the interest of protecting the team, they had to eliminate the possible threat. Granted, the only way that they could have taken him alive and complied with the initial directive was to capture him naked.

Of course this is what has been reported and it could all be a pack of lies. I don't have the financial or political resources to fly to Pakistan and investigate it my self. But Tony, I have the feeling that you are under some of the same constraints that the rest of us are the you have to depend upon someone else to tell you what has happened on the other side of the world. I don't know why I should believe the Guardian any more than the AP or UPI or Reuters. I suppose that you have to take the service that is telling you what you want to hear or spinning it in a way that vindicates your feelings and go with them.
 
After listening to so many reports and thinking about the situation a while, I "think" that after careful consideration that a decision was made some time ago that the "best" solution was to kill Bin Laden and get rid of his body in order to make him pretty much disappear.

Capturing him alive and bringing him to trial, while fitting in with an ideal concept of justice, may have reignited attention to his cause, given him a new wider platform, reopen old wounds and prolonged the pain for us all. It may have been deemed fraught with too many risks of rallying his supporters to cause more death, destruction, kidnappings, etc. Anderson Cooper spoke of Bin Laden disappearing into the cold sea last night and that we should try to eliminate his name from our thoughts and move on.
 
^^^ in response to kdelong:
I don't begrudge anyone their justification. I appreciate you offering yours.

I stated (albeit sarcastically) early on in this thread that in these matters I simply do not trust US mainstream media to report truthfully, accurately, or honestly. That sentiment is only reinforced by current events...I don't rely nor trust, so I seek more information. You believe and rely, so you accept what's offered to you. To each his own...

The ultra elite forces that went to "apprehend" OBL simply executed an unarmed man - not the first time, nor will it be the last time...

And your name is? So I can address you properly in the future - as you saw fit to do with me.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .
How many contradictions can a person fit into a comment?

I suppose this is good "red-blooded American" sentiment - sad commentary if it truly is...



Much like real life isn't it.
We can create as complex a world of rules for civility and social expectations, working for peace, but some people will not relent until they force the ultimate confrontation - kill or be killed. OBL was leading such a mission. As were the Seals. The difference is that OBL targeted innocents and the Seals are focused on those with blood on their hands.
 
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-us-changes-story

and the rest of the story...

Here ya' go - the truth that gets buried behind the attention-grabbing headlines and soundbites many like to hold cherish...

Seek and ye shall find - seek not and remain blind...or continue to allow your emotions free reign - your choice, of course...
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What kind of head shrinker horse sh1t is that last sentence? Jeeze Tony... has it been a really stressful month or something?

Re-read that guardian article with the fact that a lot of Britons really don't like America and that the Guardian in particular regularly shows a keen interest in blaming the woes of the world directly at the US... If you'd done your "seek and ye shall find" you would have known that wouldn't you.

Seek not and remain blind. Bwwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa.



A pic of the folks at the White House... Hilary Clinton is probably thinking "crud, this is what hubby should have accomplished when he launched the cuise missile attack on Bin Laden's complex in late 1998... instead of cruising his "missile" in the general direction of Ms Lewinsky"
 
^^^LOL! He's baaaaaccckkkkk...LOL! more yawn-worthy drivel and nit-picking...and I'll tell you again - when I make you jump, all that needs come from you is "How high?"...
 
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