Nut cutlets anyone?

archierob said:

Is it just me or have I noticed a sizable shift in what 'experts' (one
word I would expunge from the English language if I could) are
considering to be healthy.

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you (though not as much as a lot of other things).

Quoted message said:

running and training for half marathons on a regular basis. Cut out
all that greasy breakfast stuff and only a pint or two a week were the
docs words of wisdom. His reply was I'm 82 now and have done that for
years and years! What is the point of giving up these things at my
age! Can't help agreeing with him!

The problem is that the advice applies to most of the people most of the
time, not all of the people all of the time. Where one man can eat a
full fried breakfast every day with few to no harmful effects, that
doesn't extend to every man.
This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you (though not as much as a lot of other things).

Eat less, excercise more.

Anything more detailed is just someone trying to make money from a new
product, diet book, column inches in a paper or research grant.

POHB said:

Peter Clinch said:

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you (though not as much as a lot of other things).

Eat less, excercise more.

Anything more detailed is just someone trying to make money from a new
product, diet book, column inches in a paper or research grant.

It's a good start, but to say /anything/ more detailed is a scam is
going too far, especially if the existing diet is dreadful and/or the
current exercise levels very high.

OTOH, it is indeed the case that broad-brush stuff won't necessarily
apply to everyone. For example, we were amused/exasperated the other
day to see "The Diet Doctors" on TV apparently equate "more exercise"
with "going to the gym". I don''t really like gyms, so I guess that
means I'll have trouble doing more exercise...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

The problem is that the advice applies to most of the people most of the
time, not all of the people all of the time. Where one man can eat a
full fried breakfast every day with few to no harmful effects, that
doesn't extend to every man.
This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Radio4 this morning reckoned that consuming up to fourteen units of
alchohol per week (and excercising) would extend your life
significantly over a tee-totaller who also excercises.

I have a niggle that they probably meant a pint per day rather than 7
on friday night though..

Regards,

Duncan

Quoted message said:

I have a niggle that they probably meant a pint per day rather than 7
on friday night though..

That is exactly the catch with all these 'good alcohol' stories. If
you seriously measure what is good for you, it isn't much. In fact,
often it is far less than what one person would consider 'one drink',
especially when it comes to wine and spirits.

Peter Clinch said:

The problem is that the advice applies to most of the people most of the
time, not all of the people all of the time. Where one man can eat a
full fried breakfast every day with few to no harmful effects, that
doesn't extend to every man.
This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Part of the problem is an enormous change in the working environment. My
grandfather's generation (in my father's family, anyway) seem to have eaten
about 4000-6000 calories a day, with an enormous amount of saturated fat
(lard and dripping, especially). But they burned through that every day,
and remained lean into their eighties and nineties.

In the days before internal combustion engines and electricity into the
home, people worked enormously harder than they do now.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It appears that /dev/null is a conforming XSL processor.

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:02:38 -0800 (PST)

Duncan Smith said:

Radio4 this morning reckoned that consuming up to fourteen units of
alchohol per week (and excercising) would extend your life
significantly over a tee-totaller who also excercises.

If you read it more carefully, you'll note that moderate alcohol
consumption (which could be as little as one pint/week) is correlated
with better health and longer life.

That doesn't imply a causal relationship.

I would expect teetotallers to include some who don't drink, precisely
because they suffer ill health. That would tend to skew the overall
results, even if those who are teetotal for other reasons are
among the healthiest.

The figures are compatible with my hypothesis, just as they are
compatible with yours. But they certainly don't prove either of them.

What they do (tend to) prove is that moderate

Quoted message said:

I have a niggle that they probably meant a pint per day rather than 7
on friday night though..

That'll be quite a lot weaker than your average pint.
About three and a half percent, at a guess. That tends to
suggest the healthiest folks are those who neither drink
every day nor binge.

For my today's decision, shall I have beer or wine with my pizza?

--
not me guv

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:20:12 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Was he noticeably overweight?

"archierob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it just me or have I noticed a sizable shift in what 'experts' (one
word I would expunge from the English language if I could) are
considering to be healthy. Not going to quote quotes or references and
most of my news comes via the BBC website and the National papers
online but do I detect that nut cutlets and the like are out and pints
of ale and a bit of fat are 'in'. Body mass index is no longer gospel
and common sense is starting to take a grip.

I am reminded of a lovely man I used to know that was playing rugby up
until his late 50s and was bloody upset when he was dropped! He went
to his GP complaining of something or other - when asked by his doc
about his lifestyle he replied - full English breakfast every day in
the local cafe, about 4-5 pints of ale a day in the rugby club - he
was a great story teller and wit. He also stated that he was still
running and training for half marathons on a regular basis. Cut out
all that greasy breakfast stuff and only a pint or two a week were the
docs words of wisdom. His reply was I'm 82 now and have done that for
years and years! What is the point of giving up these things at my
age! Can't help agreeing with him!

Also reminds me of the old joke (it's odd, but most things do that)

Man goes to the doctor, who tells him that he has six months to live. Man
enquires what he can do about it, and the doc tells him to give up smoking,
drinking and eating any food that tastes remotely nice.

"Great" says the bloke "how much longer will I live?"

Doc replies "you won't, but it'll certainly feel like it"

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Duncan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:

For my today's decision, shall I have beer or wine with my pizza?

And tomorrows decision - shall I have deep pan or deep fried pizza with my
wine? ;-)

In article <f7a6a41a-cf37-4d6f-9084-
[email hidden]>, POHB
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you (though not as much as a lot of other things).

Eat less, excercise more.

Anything more detailed is just someone trying to make money from a new
product, diet book, column inches in a paper or research grant.

Except "eat less, exercise more" could easily kill you if not
supplemented with a few details. It also seems to assume that obesity
is the only problem caused by food.

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

archierob said:

Is it just me or have I noticed a sizable shift in what 'experts' (one
word I would expunge from the English language if I could) are
considering to be healthy.

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you

That's decades old - I wonder why they've decided to recycle it.

POHB said:

Peter Clinch said:

Some shifting is always going on, but I haven't noticed anything
particularly seismic beyond the cancer one recently suggesting that
bacon was going to kill you (though not as much as a lot of other things).

Eat less, excercise more.

Or even just eat the same and exercise more. I doubt that many people
eat so much too much that they actually need to cut back at the same
time as increasing their exercise levels. IIRC the average daily
calorific intake has actually gone down since the industrial
revolution (at least for some people), just not as much as the average
amount of exercise has done!

BICBW, of course.

I do agree a bit with the OP that there seems to be a bit of shift
towards more open acceptance that a moderate level of "bad" things in
the diet is not actually noticeably bad for you. Eg 1-14 units of
alcohol per week, in the latest study.

James

Andrew Price said:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:20:12 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Was he noticeably overweight?

A little plump, but not more than that. Middle aged spread rather than
a serious over-eating problem. We were all quite surprised (though not
in my department, his office was in our block).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

vernon said:

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Duncan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:

For my today's decision, shall I have beer or wine with my pizza?

And tomorrows decision - shall I have deep pan or deep fried pizza with my
wine? ;-)

Deep fried would be with a choice of Buckfast Tonic Wine or Irn Bru,
shurely? ;-/ (yes, you /really can/ get deep fried pizza in a Scottish
chippy...)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Andrew Price said:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:20:12 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

[---]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This hospital lost one of its senior admin staff just before Christmas,
coronary in his 50s, so he won't get the chance to get to 82...

Quoted message said:

Was he noticeably overweight?

A little plump, but not more than that.  Middle aged spread rather than
a serious over-eating problem.  We were all quite surprised (though not
in my department, his office was in our block).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Apparently, how you look on the outside is not necessarily a good
indicator of how you are in the inside. A contractor who worked in our
design office was as thin as a rake, but he was living on junk food.
He had a heart attack and died, due to his high cholesterol level.

David Lloyd

David Lloyd said:

Apparently, how you look on the outside is not necessarily a good
indicator of how you are in the inside.

Well, evidently... :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

vernon said:

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Duncan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:

For my today's decision, shall I have beer or wine with my pizza?

And tomorrows decision - shall I have deep pan or deep fried pizza with
my
wine? ;-)

Deep fried would be with a choice of Buckfast Tonic Wine or Irn Bru,
shurely? ;-/ (yes, you /really can/ get deep fried pizza in a Scottish
chippy...)

If you saw the 'pizzas' in Scottish chippy, you'd know they were not fit to
be eaten any other way. Whether they're fit to be eaten at all is left to
those who like their 'pizza' deep fried.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This mind intentionally left blank ]

Simon Brooke said:

If you saw the 'pizzas' in Scottish chippy, you'd know they were not fit to
be eaten any other way. Whether they're fit to be eaten at all is left to
those who like their 'pizza' deep fried.

So far the prize for least appetising deep fried fare goes to the
"healthy vegetable grill" a pal got from one of the chippers in
Pitlochry (/not/ The Plaice To Be, which is IMHO pretty good, at least
for fish suppers).

It was certainly not grilled, even more certainly not healthy. Whether
or not any vegetables were included was not obvious.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/