Newbie Swimming Journal: Week 4: Mini breakthrough

[email hidden] (FFBSensei) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ok, so I'm in week 4 of my training. Again, starting from
no base...sucking air after 2 lengths, felt like i was
having an impending heart attack after 4 lengths, passed
out on the deck (ok, not really) after my first workout.

I haven't gotten into the pool as much as I had hoped over
the last 3-4 weeks, I missed my masters workout this
morning because of my wife's work and childcare
issues...so took to the pool this afternoon.

I did a series of drills focusing on shoulder rotation,
hand position after recovery, gliding, maintaining my kick
(which I seem to flutter and stop after a while...quite
maddening really).

I then thought I would try and swim the 400 yards without
stopping...and I did the 16 lengths without stopping!!
Which, for me, was quite a revelation. No speed records
mind you (a shade under 11 minutes), and I seem to be
averaging about 22 strokes per length (I have gotten it
down to 16 if I rarely breathe and really focus on pulling
and gliding, but really can't sustain that at this point).

And the amazing thing was after I did my 16 lengths in 11
minutes...i swam for another 20 minutes without stopping.
I felt like i could have kept on going, but my wife (who's
also training with me for the triathlon) was waiting to go
running and i needed to get back to watch the kids.

There was a guy at the pool who was swimming with hand
paddles...I did a lap with them...AMAZING, it makes me
realize what i could do with a stronger pull...I could
really sense that "swimming downhill", breathing was easy
because I could rotate so easily, much easier on the legs
because i was flying down the lane, and reduced my stroke
count to under 16.

Still bob my head up from time to time, especially when
I'm tired. focusing on the entrance of my hand into the
water and extending it out seems to help me to keep the
front arm from dropping( especially on my right side - the
side that I breathe from).

Other bad habits I'm working on:
- I tend to reach my right arm ACROSS my body and angle my
wrist. I've been focusing on placing my right arm into
the water after the recover and then extending it
straight out in front of me.
- kicking is sporadic...which causes my front arm to drop
- have this weird flutter at the end of my right arm (i
think its when i need an extra second to take in
extra air)

I guess I'll shoot for swimming a mile now 😉

Onward and upward!

I'm new at swimming too. It sounds like I am behind in some
ways and ahead in others. I am benefitting from your focus
on technique. Once you talked about pressing the T, I
checked on the internet, and then you posted. As a result I
have focused on keeing my head down, well, not "down",
because that would be just as bad, but not "up". I called
this same fault to my girlfriend's attention today, and she
immediately noticed a difference in her dynamics, although
she has been swimming for years.

Speaking for myself, once you and your aerobic system have
gotten where they are, you can now swim for great distances.
I went from struggling for a quarter mile to a mile and a
half in two weeks, in the ocean in rough water. I can't
claim any technique in those open water swims, but I am
going back to work on that now. Also, maybe you can begin to
work on intervals now that you can swim. Think waht you have
done! YOU CAN SWIM! It seems silly, I am 54 years old and it
made me so proud of myself. It made me feel free.

A note on my rough ocean water swim technique: It is so bad
that about a month ago, when the rip currents were claiming
lives here in South Florida, I was swimming in the ocean. A
passing motorist saw me and called 911 to report a "swimmer
in trouble". There must have been a lot of splashing going
on or something--the waves knock you down and over, and
sometimes you have to regroup, maybe even roll over on your
back and float. It was early, and the lifeguards weren't due
for a few minutes, so the 911 operator called the Coast
Guard. The Coast Guard sent a helicopter, and a boat. As I
was exiting the water after a nice mile and a half swim, the
lifeguards showed up with a four-wheeler and a surfboard.
They came up to me and asked if I was alright and whether I
had been pulled out to sea. I was clueless there was any
problem. so I was a little confused. My son was with me
tracking alongside me on his surfboard, so I had not done
anything stupid. There had been a lot of coverage about the
rip currents, drownings, etc., and the passing motorist, I
guess, couldn't really see exactly what was going on, since
we were out beyond the breakers. We laughed all the way
home. Had we been doing something stupid, like climbing Mt.
Ranier in a snowstorm against the advice of the Parks
Service, I would have felt guilty about the cost to the
public and the risk and inconvenience to the "Search Team".
But honestly, I'm in a wetsuit with a guy on a surfboard ten
feet away, and this is not one of the areas that has much in
the way of rips. I always check in with the lifeguards, but
we started earlier than usual that day. You really can't
blame the motorist either. You have to be grateful for
people who are concerned for others and try to help.

Greg

In article <[email hidden]>,

(FFBSensei) said:

I then thought I would try and swim the 400 yards without
stopping...and I did the 16 lengths without stopping!!
Which, for me, was quite a revelation. No speed records
mind you (a shade under 11 minutes), and I seem to be
averaging about 22 strokes per length (I have gotten it
down to 16 if I rarely breathe and really focus on pulling
and gliding, but really can't sustain that at this point).

And the amazing thing was after I did my 16 lengths in 11
minutes...i swam for another 20 minutes without stopping.
I felt like i could have kept on going, but my wife (who's
also training with me for the triathlon) was waiting to go
running and i needed to get back to watch the kids.

that's great... congrats on your achievements! these sorts
of things really do *just happen*, and without planning.
just work at it and it all comes together. at this point
don't worry about speed during those long swims. but do some
speed workouts separately and you will see your longer swims
speed up. i was slow, slow, slow last year, but after a
winter of speed drills and focus on technique, i have
increased my speed significantly... and i can maintain speed
for longer periods too.

Quoted message said:

There was a guy at the pool who was swimming with hand
paddles...I did a lap with them...AMAZING, it makes me
realize what i could do with a stronger pull...I could
really sense that "swimming downhill", breathing was easy
because I could rotate so easily, much easier on the legs
because i was flying down the lane, and reduced my stroke
count to under 16.

yup, the paddles are excellent. i also use other training
aids, esp. the buoy for the legs. i did a few laps with the
paddles, a few laps with buoy only, then a few laps with
both....THEN i took 'em all off and man, you feel like a
spell has been cast on you. the muscles and mind have been
programmed (a little at a time) to move the way they must
with the swim aids and you really move.

Quoted message said:

I guess I'll shoot for swimming a mile now 😉

go for it. excellent progress. best of luck to you.

Cam

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ffbsensei
Ok, so I'm in week 4 of my training. Again, starting from no
base...sucking air after 2 lengths, felt like i was having
an impending heart attack after 4 lengths, passed out on the
deck (ok, not really) after my first workout.

I haven't gotten into the pool as much as I had hoped over
the last 3-4 weeks, I missed my masters workout this morning
because of my wife's work and childcare issues...so took to
the pool this afternoon.

I did a series of drills focusing on shoulder rotation,
hand position after recovery, gliding, maintaining my kick
(which I seem to flutter and stop after a while...quite
maddening really).

I then thought I would try and swim the 400 yards without
stopping...and I did the 16 lengths without stopping!!
Which, for me, was quite a revelation. No speed records mind
you (a shade under 11 minutes), and I seem to be averaging
about 22 strokes per length (I have gotten it down to 16 if
I rarely breathe and really focus on pulling and gliding,
but really can't sustain that at this point).

And the amazing thing was after I did my 16 lengths in 11
minutes...i swam for another 20 minutes without stopping. I
felt like i could have kept on going, but my wife (who's
also training with me for the triathlon) was waiting to go
running and i needed to get back to watch the kids.

There was a guy at the pool who was swimming with hand
paddles...I did a lap with them...AMAZING, it makes me
realize what i could do with a stronger pull...I could
really sense that "swimming downhill", breathing was easy
because I could rotate so easily, much easier on the legs
because i was flying down the lane, and reduced my stroke
count to under 16.

Still bob my head up from time to time, especially when I'm
tired. focusing on the entrance of my hand into the water
and extending it out seems to help me to keep the front arm
from dropping( especially on my right side - the side that I
breathe from).

Other bad habits I'm working on:
- I tend to reach my right arm ACROSS my body and angle my
wrist. I've been focusing on placing my right arm into the
water after the recover and then extending it straight out
in front of me.
- kicking is sporadic...which causes my front arm to drop
- have this weird flutter at the end of my right arm (i
think its when i need an extra second to take in
extra air)

I guess I'll shoot for swimming a mile now 😉

Onward and upward!

Great job! I'm in somewhat similar shape, so some notes you might find helpful
1. Your times are good for your experience!
2. Your stroke efficiency is not so good (like mine is, right!). If you can get it to 16... or even 12... you'll be a swimming GOD. =)

I bet if you keep up the good work on the stroke, you could gain some serious efficiency and either not work as hard, or seriously improve your speed.

I'm sure you know this already, but sometimes it's good have someone point out the obvious!

keep up the good work!

pcs_ronbo said:

Ffbsensei said:

Ok, so I'm in week 4 of my training. Again, starting from
no base...sucking air after 2 lengths, felt like i was
having an impending heart attack after 4 lengths, passed
out on the deck (ok, not really) after my first workout.
I haven't gotten into the pool as much as I had hoped
over the last 3-4 weeks, I missed my masters workout this
morning because of my wife's work and childcare
issues...so took to the pool this afternoon. I did a
series of drills focusing on shoulder rotation, hand
position after recovery, gliding, maintaining my kick
(which I seem to flutter and stop after a while...quite
maddening really). I then thought I would try and swim
the 400 yards without stopping...and I did the 16 lengths
without stopping!! Which, for me, was quite a revelation.
No speed records mind you (a shade under 11 minutes), and
I seem to be averaging about 22 strokes per length (I
have gotten it down to 16 if I rarely breathe and really
focus on pulling and gliding, but really can't sustain
that at this point). And the amazing thing was after I
did my 16 lengths in 11 minutes...i swam for another 20
minutes without stopping. I felt like i could have kept
on going, but my wife (who's also training with me for
the triathlon) was waiting to go running and i needed to
get back to watch the kids. There was a guy at the pool
who was swimming with hand paddles...I did a lap with
them...AMAZING, it makes me realize what i could do with
a stronger pull...I could really sense that "swimming
downhill", breathing was easy because I could rotate so
easily, much easier on the legs because i was flying down
the lane, and reduced my stroke count to under 16. Still
bob my head up from time to time, especially when I'm
tired. focusing on the entrance of my hand into the water
and extending it out seems to help me to keep the front
arm from dropping( especially on my right side - the side
that I breathe from). Other bad habits I'm working on:
- I tend to reach my right arm ACROSS my body and angle
my wrist. I've been focusing on placing my right arm
into the water after the recover and then extending it
straight out in front of me.
- kicking is sporadic...which causes my front arm to drop
- have this weird flutter at the end of my right arm (i
think its when i need an extra second to take in extra
air) I guess I'll shoot for swimming a mile now 😉
Onward and upward!

Great job! I'm in somewhat similar shape, so some notes
you might find helpful
1. Your times are good for your experience!
2. Your stroke efficiency is not so good (like mine is,
right!). If you can get it to 16... or even 12...
you'll be a swimming GOD. =)

I sure hope you guys are counting one stroke for _both_
arms! Our coach has us count one for each arm. I'm 51 and
swim in a 50 metre pool at about a minute a lap with the
stroke count well into the 40s. I console myself with the
fact that I watched Brooke Bennett win the women's 800
metres at the last Olympics (here in Sydney) and counted her
stokes: 51 per lap! If it's good enough for the world
champion...

Steve = : ^ )

Hi Steve,

I am counting 1 stroke per arm, altho I'm swimming in a 25
yard pool, rather than a 50 meter pool. I suspect I would be
equally as slow and inefficient in meters as I am in yards!

I believe the conversion is 1.09 yards per meter. so your
pool is 55 yards long (over twice as my 25 yard pool!).

Quoted message said:

I sure hope you guys are counting one stroke for _both_
arms! Our coach has us count one for each arm. I'm 51 and
swim in a 50 metre pool at about a minute a lap with the
stroke count well into the 40s. I console myself with the
fact that I watched Brooke Bennett win the women's 800
metres at the last Olympics (here in Sydney) and counted
her stokes: 51 per lap! If it's good enough for the world
champion...

Steve = : ^ )

Appreciate your updates! From what you've posted, I think
I'm where you were 4 weeks ago. I can't recall, but did you
mention in an earlier post that you took some instruction
from a professional instructor? If not, how are you learning
proper technique?

My biggest problem is technique, and although continued
swimming/struggling won't hurt, I don't think it's helping
me improve my technique.

I have not been able to find instructors in my area who
could work with my schedule for private lessons. I looked
into the Total Immersion program, but am unsure how well a
video/book will help for something like swimming.

Anyway, bottom line is, I'm wondering where/how you obtained
ideas, drills, etc. to learn good form/technique.

Thanks, Mike

[email hidden] (FFBSensei) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ok, so I'm in week 4 of my training. Again, starting from
no base...sucking air after 2 lengths, felt like i was
having an impending heart attack after 4 lengths, passed
out on the deck (ok, not really) after my first workout.

I haven't gotten into the pool as much as I had hoped over
the last 3-4 weeks, I missed my masters workout this
morning because of my wife's work and childcare
issues...so took to the pool this afternoon.

I did a series of drills focusing on shoulder rotation,
hand position after recovery, gliding, maintaining my kick
(which I seem to flutter and stop after a while...quite
maddening really).

I then thought I would try and swim the 400 yards without
stopping...and I did the 16 lengths without stopping!!
Which, for me, was quite a revelation. No speed records
mind you (a shade under 11 minutes), and I seem to be
averaging about 22 strokes per length (I have gotten it
down to 16 if I rarely breathe and really focus on pulling
and gliding, but really can't sustain that at this point).

And the amazing thing was after I did my 16 lengths in 11
minutes...i swam for another 20 minutes without stopping.
I felt like i could have kept on going, but my wife (who's
also training with me for the triathlon) was waiting to go
running and i needed to get back to watch the kids.

There was a guy at the pool who was swimming with hand
paddles...I did a lap with them...AMAZING, it makes me
realize what i could do with a stronger pull...I could
really sense that "swimming downhill", breathing was easy
because I could rotate so easily, much easier on the legs
because i was flying down the lane, and reduced my stroke
count to under 16.

Still bob my head up from time to time, especially when
I'm tired. focusing on the entrance of my hand into the
water and extending it out seems to help me to keep the
front arm from dropping( especially on my right side - the
side that I breathe from).

Other bad habits I'm working on:
- I tend to reach my right arm ACROSS my body and angle my
wrist. I've been focusing on placing my right arm into
the water after the recover and then extending it
straight out in front of me.
- kicking is sporadic...which causes my front arm to drop
- have this weird flutter at the end of my right arm (i
think its when i need an extra second to take in
extra air)

I guess I'll shoot for swimming a mile now 😉

Onward and upward!

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Mike) said:

Appreciate your updates! From what you've posted, I think
I'm where you were 4 weeks ago. I can't recall, but did
you mention in an earlier post that you took some
instruction from a professional instructor? If not, how
are you learning proper technique?

My biggest problem is technique, and although continued
swimming/struggling won't hurt, I don't think it's helping
me improve my technique.

I have not been able to find instructors in my area who
could work with my schedule for private lessons. I looked
into the Total Immersion program, but am unsure how well a
video/book will help for something like swimming.

Anyway, bottom line is, I'm wondering where/how you
obtained ideas, drills, etc. to learn good form/technique.

Thanks, Mike

not familiar with the video, but i own the book and it
helped a lot. anything can help, though perhaps not quite as
well as an instructor. i do run my thoughts and learnings
past a more experienced swimmer for opinions.

Cam

[email hidden] (Mike) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Appreciate your updates! From what you've posted, I think
I'm where you were 4 weeks ago. I can't recall, but did
you mention in an earlier post that you took some
instruction from a professional instructor? If not, how
are you learning proper technique?

My biggest problem is technique, and although continued
swimming/struggling won't hurt, I don't think it's helping
me improve my technique.

I have not been able to find instructors in my area who
could work with my schedule for private lessons. I looked
into the Total Immersion program, but am unsure how well a
video/book will help for something like swimming.

Anyway, bottom line is, I'm wondering where/how you
obtained ideas, drills, etc. to learn good form/technique.

Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike,

Check with the local pools around your area for a masters
training program. They seem to be fairly ubiquitous. I was
fortunate that the person who runs the training program at
the pool I went to was a professional triathlete in his
younger days, and a very good technical swimmer (his
strong suit).

The masters program has 1 hour workouts from 6am, 7am, 11am,
and 12am. He conducts stroke clinics from 11am to 12am
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And has weightlifting classes
at 8am on Tuesday and Thursday for swimmers/triathletes. I
don't attend all of them, because of my family/work/rest of
life schedule...so I also go and swim laps when these times
aren't convenient for me.

And while the one hour workouts aren't for "instruction",
the coach has been VERY generous with his time in giving me
some one-on-one instructions (perhaps he just feels sorry
for me or he's afraid I'm going to drown 🙂

I also have signed up for some private instructions from a
stroke coach. As it turns out my 6 year old is taking swim
lessons at this place, and my mom (who is 60 is also
learning how to swim from one of the adult teachers). I was
talking to this guy while watching my 6 year old take a
lesson and telling him what I was doing. As it turns out, he
was also a very competent swimmer, having recently competed
in a 2 mile open water swim. So I ended up signing up for a
series of lessons from this guy. I was thinking of spreading
them out over a month, but then decided to string them
together. So I'm going about 3 times a week and doing
individual lap swimming and masters training program in
between. The more time I spend in the water on consecutive
days...the quicker I notice I improve. Its all about
building up positive muscle memory (that is learning how to
do it correctly). What I didn't want to happen is to spend
hours in the pool and finding out I had been doing it
incorrectly!

Many of the drills I get for my individual workout come from
the Total Immersion book. Good luck training!

[email hidden] (FFBSensei) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Mike) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Appreciate your updates! From what you've posted, I
think I'm where you were 4 weeks ago. I can't recall,
but did you mention in an earlier post that you took
some instruction from a professional instructor? If not,
how are you learning proper technique?

My biggest problem is technique, and although continued
swimming/struggling won't hurt, I don't think it's
helping me improve my technique.

I have not been able to find instructors in my area who
could work with my schedule for private lessons. I
looked into the Total Immersion program, but am unsure
how well a video/book will help for something like
swimming.

Anyway, bottom line is, I'm wondering where/how you
obtained ideas, drills, etc. to learn good
form/technique.

Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike,

Check with the local pools around your area for a masters
training program. They seem to be fairly ubiquitous. I was
fortunate that the person who runs the training program at
the pool I went to was a professional triathlete in his
younger days, and a very good technical swimmer (his
strong suit).

The masters program has 1 hour workouts from 6am, 7am,
11am, and 12am. He conducts stroke clinics from 11am to
12am Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And has weightlifting
classes at 8am on Tuesday and Thursday for
swimmers/triathletes. I don't attend all of them, because
of my family/work/rest of life schedule...so I also go and
swim laps when these times aren't convenient for me.

And while the one hour workouts aren't for "instruction",
the coach has been VERY generous with his time in giving
me some one-on-one instructions (perhaps he just feels
sorry for me or he's afraid I'm going to drown 🙂

I also have signed up for some private instructions from a
stroke coach. As it turns out my 6 year old is taking swim
lessons at this place, and my mom (who is 60 is also
learning how to swim from one of the adult teachers). I
was talking to this guy while watching my 6 year old take
a lesson and telling him what I was doing. As it turns
out, he was also a very competent swimmer, having recently
competed in a 2 mile open water swim. So I ended up
signing up for a series of lessons from this guy. I was
thinking of spreading them out over a month, but then
decided to string them together. So I'm going about 3
times a week and doing individual lap swimming and masters
training program in between. The more time I spend in the
water on consecutive days...the quicker I notice I
improve. Its all about building up positive muscle memory
(that is learning how to do it correctly). What I didn't
want to happen is to spend hours in the pool and finding
out I had been doing it incorrectly!

Many of the drills I get for my individual workout come
from the Total Immersion book. Good luck training!

Muscles don't have memory.

[email hidden] (Ironic) wrote in news:38f527b7.0406211737.3d891406
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

Muscles don't have memory.

I beg to differ. Mine remember a good workout for 2-3 days!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Muscles don't have memory.

I beg to differ. Mine remember a good workout for
2-3 days!

Good point. Naive question, but do top athletes get muscle
soreness? I have a weightlifting buddy who has been at it
for years, who is never sore. I look forward to the taper
week, because it is the only time something isn't hurting.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ironic
> > Muscles don't have memory.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I beg to differ. Mine remember a good workout for
2-3 days!

Good point. Naive question, but do top athletes get muscle
soreness? I have a weightlifting buddy who has been at it
for years, who is never sore. I look forward to the taper
week, because it is the only time something isn't hurting.

If something is ALWAYS sore then you're probably overtraining those areas. Consider cross training into different areas and REDUCING intensity. After 2-4 weeks you really shouldn't see lots of soreness... now, I didn't say anything about completely exhausted muscles... no, now that's something entirely different.

I've been sick w/ a cold for a week and it's AMAZING how weird it feels to go up stairs and.... NOT be listening to my legs. Actually my legs are like, whooo hooo let's kick some stair BOOTY!

Anyway, I'm only 22 weeks into Triathlong training coming from couch potatoe (and 320 lbs down to 295) and that's a definately lesson learned... things do not and SHOULD not be constantly sore. Remember, you HAVE to give them time to heal, so they can get stronger. If you're constantly tearing them up, you're not getting stronger, you might be getting weaker.