New RANS SWB

Denny Voorhees said:

Victor, I weigh in at 250, I ride the large version of the Bacchetta Giro.There is NO decernable
frame flex. I've ridden a Strada with the same results.

That's good to know. Since there are no 'bent dealers near me and the only ones that I could take a
day trip to visit that have RANS also have Bacchetta (mainly shops in Maryland and Virginia), I'd
likely get to try them both.

If only I could get to try a Volae or a T-Bone.

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Quoted message said:

The Force 5 comes with ISO 571-mm wheels [1] which means one would be limited to skinny tires.
Hopefully there will be enough frame clearance and brake reach adjustment [2] to be able to run
decent width (28-32 mm) ISO 559-mm [3] road tires (on the appropriate wheels) for heavier riders
or those riding on poor surfaces.

Yeah, that's my main concern with this bike (and the Volaes), and why I'm liking the Strada.

In looking at the Force 5 pictures, it looks like their rear brake already has the pads set at the
lowest position on a long reach caliper. So unless they lower the brake bridge, or come up with a
super-long reach caliper, or offer a disc option, the 559 wheels I'd prefer might not be workable.

Quoted message said:

[1] 650C for those who insist on using the obsolete French sizing system.
[2] Longer reach sidepull brakes might be required.

Maybe some BMX brakes? (Tektro Bulldogs???)

Quoted message said:

[3] 26" MTB size

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

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bentbiker said:

Try visionbikes.com Tom, it's still up and running.

The previous www.visionrecumbents.com URL was not functioning (as it was less than one month ago),
and Google searches of "ATP Vision", "vision recumbents" and "vision bikes" did not return the new
URL within the first three pages of results.

The current web site says, "Welcome to Vision Recumbent Bicycles for 2003", while almost all other
manufacturers list their 2004 model lineup.

The existence of a website does not necessarily mean a company is still in business, e.g. <
arthurandersen.comandersen.nsfOpen ↗ >.

So back to the original question, what is the status of ATP Vision?

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Kurt Fischer said:

Tom Sherman said:

Most HPV racers in the US are riding lowracers, and will likely continue to do so for reasons of
drafting. Highracer sales in the US are primarily to road riders, not racers. This may or may not
change for long distance events that ban drafting.

I see your point, Tom, but at the moment most part of recumbent racing takes place on tracks or
relatively flat courses. What will happen if there are real hills or even mountain passes involved
sometimes? Do you still see a clear advantage for lowracers under this conditions?

As to the relative performance advantages/disadvantages of lowracers and highracers, that is best
left to another thread.

I do not see lowracers becoming popular in the US among non-racers, due mostly to preconceived
notions that may or may not have merit. The current highracer market in the US is performance driven
but not competition driven (just as many cyclists ride DF uprights very similar to those used in
competition, but very few participate in organized competition on a regular basis).

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

change the thread Tom :-)

Tom Sherman said:

Kurt Fischer said:

Tom Sherman said:

Most HPV racers in the US are riding lowracers, and will likely continue to do so for reasons of
drafting. Highracer sales in the US are primarily to road riders, not racers. This may or may
not change for long distance events that ban drafting.

I see your point, Tom, but at the moment most part of recumbent racing takes place on tracks or
relatively flat courses. What will happen if there are real hills or even mountain passes
involved sometimes? Do you still see a clear advantage for lowracers under this conditions?

As to the relative performance advantages/disadvantages of lowracers and highracers, that is best
left to another thread.

I do not see lowracers becoming popular in the US among non-racers, due mostly to preconceived
notions that may or may not have merit. The current highracer market in the US is performance
driven but not competition driven (just as many cyclists ride DF uprights very similar to those
used in competition, but very few participate in organized competition on a regular basis).

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

bentbiker said:

change the thread Tom :-)

Are Usenet newsgroups like tires and sheets - the more threads the better?

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Tom Sherman said:

I disagree with the original poster’s statement however, as RANS does not make a lowracer, a
tadpole trike, a delta trike, or a true CLWB, so some bases remain to be covered.

I think they[RANS] have covered all the bases. The V2,Vrex,Rocket and the new Force cover
1st,2cd,3rd and home plate. You mentioned trikes,lowracers and CLWB??? Well, everybody knows that
there are no bases in the out field where three wheels and low-sters belong. Also one must not
forget all the CLWB bikes are bench warmers and the Revive and Bigha are the bat boys. So put that
in yer pipe N smoke it:-)

Bill B said:

Tom Sherman said:

I disagree with the original poster’s statement however, as RANS does not make a lowracer, a
tadpole trike, a delta trike, or a true CLWB, so some bases remain to be covered.

I think they[RANS] have covered all the bases. The V2,Vrex,Rocket and the new Force cover
1st,2cd,3rd and home plate. You mentioned trikes,lowracers and CLWB??? Well, everybody knows that
there are no bases in the out field where three wheels and low-sters belong. Also one must not
forget all the CLWB bikes are bench warmers and the Revive and Bigha are the bat boys. So put that
in yer pipe N smoke it:-)

The RANS Fusion riding position is not too different from that of the Giant Revive. You also
neglected to mention where the Stratus and Tailwind fit in.

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

nor did I say they were still in business. A 2004 site wouldn't indicate that right? They answer
phones and are trying to stay afloat, who knows though?

Tom Sherman said:

bentbiker said:

Try visionbikes.com Tom, it's still up and running.

The previous www.visionrecumbents.com URL was not functioning (as it was less than one month ago),
and Google searches of "ATP Vision", "vision recumbents" and "vision bikes" did not return the new
URL within the first three pages of results.

The current web site says, "Welcome to Vision Recumbent Bicycles for 2003", while almost all other
manufacturers list their 2004 model lineup.

The existence of a website does not necessarily mean a company is still in business, e.g. <
arthurandersen.comandersen.nsfOpen ↗ >.

So back to the original question, what is the status of ATP Vision?

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

bentbiker said:

Try visionbikes.com Tom, it's still up and running.

The previous www.visionrecumbents.com URL was not functioning (as it was less than one month ago),
and Google searches of "ATP Vision", "vision recumbents" and "vision bikes" did not return the new
URL within the first three pages of results.

The current web site says, "Welcome to Vision Recumbent Bicycles for 2003", while almost all other
manufacturers list their 2004 model lineup.

The existence of a website does not necessarily mean a company is still in business, e.g. <
arthurandersen.comandersen.nsfOpen ↗ >.

So back to the original question, what is the status of ATP Vision?

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

The last couple of years, the Vision web-site has been one of the last to be updated .. maybe
February in 2002????

That said, clearly the company is in trouble. I understand they have closed down their nearly new
facility, and from phone conversations others have reported, they hope to be producing bikes again
in the spring from another location. Obviously the phone conversations could be just delaying
tactics but, based on my and many other people's experiences, the ATP people have been very up-front
and honorable in their dealings. I still choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.

They redesigned their frames for 2002 (straightened main tube, indexed the boom, quick release on
boom, and instant-adjust pulleys), opened a new facility, and added the Thoroughbred (which I'm
guessing has not shown any black ink in the bottom line). I'm afraid they may have overextended
themselves, in addition to having to deal with expenses of replacing many faulty seat fabrics that
were issued in 2002.

Whatever happens, I would not be afraid to purchase a Vision bike ... in fact, I'm watching for some
closeout deals to pick up a Saber if I can find a place to hide it from my wife.... but the major
proprietary parts are the frame (which I have MANY thousands of miles on and ZERO problems), the
seat (which gets my vote for THE most comfortable), and seat fabric.

It's really a shame that they are struggling, due in part, to the fact that they are quality people.
Their 2002 bikes really made a quantum leap in performance/convenience.... other adjustable-boom-
length manufacturers should take notice. They also pioneered (or at least were a significant driving
force) with the big-wheel bents.

Vive la Vision!!

Victor-

I have a Volae Club LX with the Alpha Q Pro fork. I have seen the assertion that the Volae will not
accommodate 559 wheels on a number of threads and to me this appears untrue. I have tried a mtn bike
wheel with a 25-559 Conti GP tire on the rear of the Volae and it fits by dropping the brake shoes
in the Shimano 105 caliper. There is room for a more studly tire than the 25 as well. I have fit a
mtn bike front wheel with the same tire on the Alpha fork. I would need a standard reach (47-57mm)
dual pivot to accommodate this wheel (Shimano and Tektro both make these) and I think it is very
likely that this caliper would accommodate both wheel sizes. On the front, a larger tire than the 25
could be accommodated but fork width is a much more limiting factor than on the rear.

HTH

Marc

Victor Kan <[email hidden]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Force 5 comes with ISO 571-mm wheels [1] which means one would be limited to skinny tires.
Hopefully there will be enough frame clearance and brake reach adjustment [2] to be able to run
decent width (28-32 mm) ISO 559-mm [3] road tires (on the appropriate wheels) for heavier riders
or those riding on poor surfaces.

Yeah, that's my main concern with this bike (and the Volaes), and why I'm liking the Strada.

In looking at the Force 5 pictures, it looks like their rear brake already has the pads set at the
lowest position on a long reach caliper. So unless they lower the brake bridge, or come up with a
super-long reach caliper, or offer a disc option, the 559 wheels I'd prefer might not be workable.

Quoted message said:

[1] 650C for those who insist on using the obsolete French sizing system.
[2] Longer reach sidepull brakes might be required.

Maybe some BMX brakes? (Tektro Bulldogs???)

Quoted message said:

[3] 26" MTB size

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

[email hidden] (DeVon) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Welllll not ALL the bases .... I've yet to see a RANS USS.

I realize that they would have to be relegated to the church basement where only we "black sheep"
would be aware of them. Some call it sacrilege ... I call it a Vision.

We are talking hard ball here. If RANS made a USS it would be a softball player.

[email hidden] (Dennis) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Wonder if Marci has hers ordered yet?

Ha......Nope, still loving my Vision R64 Saber.......... I still prefer a "reasonable" riding
position with the benefit of the two large wheels. Marci

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:

Quoted message said:

The RANS Fusion riding position is not too different from that of the Giant Revive. You also
neglected to mention where the Stratus and Tailwind fit in.

The poor fusion had too much confusion and ended up being the pitcher on a lesbian soft ball team.
The Stratus is now the 3rd base coach and the Tailwind washes all the teams dirty jock straps

Marci, could you give me an accurate BB [middle of the crank bolt] and seat height[top of the seat
cover] measurement off your saber? I don't trust the ones off the web sites!

Marci Taylor said:

[email hidden] (Dennis) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Wonder if Marci has hers ordered yet?

Ha......Nope, still loving my Vision R64 Saber.......... I still prefer a "reasonable" riding
position with the benefit of the two large wheels. Marci

Marci Taylor said:

[email hidden] (Dennis) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Wonder if Marci has hers ordered yet?

Ha......Nope, still loving my Vision R64 Saber.......... I still prefer a "reasonable" riding
position with the benefit of the two large wheels. Marci

When I first saw the production Vision Saber, my thought was the BB was too low for optimum
aerodynamics and climbing. The second generation Saber is somewhat improved but still too low for my
preference. The Saber would probably be the best choice for someone with borderline high BB foot
numbness problems, however (if it remains available).

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Quoted message said:

Whatever happens, I would not be afraid to purchase a Vision bike ... in fact, I'm watching for
some closeout deals to pick up a Saber if I can find a place to hide it from my wife....

Good plan. Close-out Sabers may be THE performance bargain bikes in 2004.

--
Bryan J. Ball Publisher/Editor 'BentRider Online Magazine www.bentrideronline.com "In this world,
hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate." - The Buddha

DeVon said:

... Whatever happens, I would not be afraid to purchase a Vision bike ... in fact, I'm watching
for some closeout deals to pick up a Saber if I can find a place to hide it from my wife.... but
the major proprietary parts are the frame (which I have MANY thousands of miles on and ZERO
problems), the seat (which gets my vote for THE most comfortable), and seat fabric....

Isn't the Saber available with OSS only? 😉

If I wanted a Vision, I would not worry about the status of the company, since everything
proprietary can be duplicated by any competent machinist, seat meshes can be copied or repaired, and
the Cro-Moly frames can be repaired by any competant frame builder. At least that is the logic I use
with my Earth Cycles orphans that have more proprietary parts than any Vision model.

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

bentbiker said:

nor did I say they were still in business. A 2004 site wouldn't indicate that right? They answer
phones and are trying to stay afloat, who knows though?

Since quite a few people seem to appreciate the ATP Vision design philosophy, I hope they are able
to stay in business.

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Isn't the Saber available with OSS only? 😉

Tom Sherman – Close to 41½ N, 90½ W

You're right of course.

I just wanted the status that come these days from owning a big-wheel .... figured if I wasn't
planning to ride it, at least I would have a Vision seat to sit in while using Cyclops trainer and
TV watching. Besides, I normally ride the trainer hands free ... and, here comes my concession to
OSS .... OSS is a bit more convenient for mounting a remote control holder for TV/DVD.

Figured if I can't ride outdoors, I'd do well to get a really fast bike for indoor use. Does anyone
know if the indoor speed is adversely affected if I keep the seat fairly upright? 😉

DeVon