Never do this

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your morningn
insulin at bedtime.

Never, never, never do this.

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache for a few hours.

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very nice lady who sometimes helps me out
in a crisis?

Ever finish a insulin run and then think you may have
reversed the doses?. It is good for staying up all night to
avoid the 911 run.

Thought it was just me alone. Guy

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your morningn
insulin at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Never, never, never do this.

Quoted message said:

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache for a few hours.

Quoted message said:

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very nice lady who sometimes helps me out
in a crisis?

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't ever
have to worry about such things, but that's not the reason
for my reply. Have you considered that the headache you get
from this kind of experience may not be from the Glucagon,
but rather from the overload of insulin and/or the
hypoglycemic results due to it?

I've never used Glucagon, but used to get serious headaches
(in the pre- synthetic insulin days) whenever my glucose
plummeted way too low. That never happens to me anymore. 🙂

Best,

Randy

Nico Kadel-Garcia <[email hidden]> quoth:

Quoted message said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your morningn
insulin at bedtime. Never, never, never do this. I *hate*
glucagon kits, they always give me this sick nauseous
headache for a few hours. Have I mentioned today that I
love my wife? And that she's a very, very nice lady who
sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Oh, my God! I'm so glad she was there!

Priscilla
--
"Come to Planet Earth! Watch people with brains not use
them! Several shows daily! Free admittance!" Keera Ann Fox
in alt.support.menopause

Nico, Glad you made it through. Since I've been on insulin
for many, many years, I've taken the wrong insulin (N rather
than R, etc), miscalculated doses, missed doses, used bad
insulin, taken two shots rather than 1, etc. You name it,
I've messed it up at one point in time.

The glucogon stinks, but I'm sure glad I have it when it's
needed! : ) Steph

"Nico Kadel-Garcia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your morningn
insulin at bedtime.

Never, never, never do this.

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache

for

Quoted message said:

a few hours.

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that she's
a very, very

nice

Quoted message said:

lady who sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Priscilla H Ballou said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia <[email hidden]> quoth:

Quoted message said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your morningn
insulin at bedtime. Never, never, never do this. I *hate*
glucagon kits, they always give me this sick nauseous
headache for a few hours. Have I mentioned today that I
love my wife? And that she's a very, very nice lady who
sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Oh, my God! I'm so glad she was there!

Priscilla

Mona is an expert on Glucagon. You gals are useful
sometimes. I noted the old Al covered it the other day. More
inputs would be a desirable thing. As Mack and I know,these
severe hypos can be mean. I never had one until around the
fifteen year time. The glucagon saved many 911 runs. Severe
hypos leave me screwed up for about two days. Guy

Randy, Last week I learned that glucagon is a hormone, not a
concentrated sugar (I thought it was a super powerful/super
concentrated sugar type of stuff.) The endo who was talking
about it mentioned that using it will give the person really
bad headaches. It's been used on me a couple of times in the
past. I remembered the headaches. I just assumed the
headaches were because of the very low blood sugar. (Kind of
like a hangover.) I was surprised to learn that it was
because of the hormone used in glucagon.

That being said, I also usually get a headache after my
sugars go really low. Unlike you, I've never had a headache
from the synthetic insulins.

I thought it was pretty interesting to learn something
new. Steph

"Randy Sigman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your
morningn insulin at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Never, never, never do this.

Quoted message said:

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a few hours.

Quoted message said:

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very

nice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lady who sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't
ever have to worry about such things, but that's not the
reason for my reply. Have you considered that the headache
you get from this kind of experience may not be from the
Glucagon, but rather from the overload of insulin and/or
the hypoglycemic results due to it?

I've never used Glucagon, but used to get serious
headaches (in the pre- synthetic insulin days) whenever my
glucose plummeted way too low. That never happens to me
anymore. 🙂

Best,

Randy

Randy Sigman said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your
morningn insulin at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Never, never, never do this.

Quoted message said:

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache for a few hours.

Quoted message said:

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very nice lady who sometimes helps me out
in a crisis?

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't
ever have to

Yeah, me too. It also may *not* have been that kind of
error on my part. I had another whopper last night, and had
been triple careful about taking the right doses of night
time insulin. This is of some concern to me, of course: I
need to revew my night time regimen and see what the heck
is going on.

Quoted message said:

worry about such things, but that's not the reason for my
reply. Have you considered that the headache you get from
this kind of experience may not be from the Glucagon, but
rather from the overload of insulin and/or the
hypoglycemic results due to it?

Trust me, it's the damn Glucagon. I've had the rare and
memorable hypoglycemic episode of doom. (I do try to avoid
them!). The only ones that hit like this are the ones where
some thoughtful person gave me glucagon.

Priscilla H Ballou said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia <[email hidden]> quoth:

Quoted message said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your
morningn insulin at bedtime. Never, never, never do this.
I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache for a few hours. Have I mentioned today
that I love my wife? And that she's a very, very nice
lady who sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Oh, my God! I'm so glad she was there!

Priscilla

Yeah, she's a lovely and *tolerant* woman. We just had our
anniversary and went to the restaurant in Boston where I
accepted her proposal, with nummy-nummy-nummy Italian
seafood and our 3 year old daughter flirting with kids at
the next table. And afterwards, I got to have a bite or two
of my wife's tiramisu and a bite of my daughter's gelato.

That was how I *want* our evenings to be. Last night, and
the not so vicious but still nasty low I threw this morning,
is not how I want our nights to be. I gotta work on this
thing. But given the two nights in a row bit, and my caution
with my insulin the second night, it's reassuring to know
that maybe I *didn't* screw up my insulin the first night.

"Guy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mona is an expert on Glucagon. You gals are useful
sometimes. I noted the old Al covered it the other day.
More inputs would be a desirable thing. As Mack and I
know,these severe hypos can be mean. I never had one
until around the fifteen year time. The glucagon saved
many 911 runs. Severe hypos leave me screwed up for about
two days. Guy

When I was first diagnosed (Type I) I vaguely remember
getting a prescription for glucagon. I know I threw it out
(the actual glucagon, not the prescription) after having it
around a few years and never using it (it expired). Just
recently, my mother asked me if I kept it on hand. She
couldn't remember the name, but I knew what she was talking
about. She said a woman at her senior citizen's center said
she's had to use it on herself several times. I thought that
was weird. I know if my blood sugar goes that low, I
wouldn't be able to think about using it on myself, never
mind actually administering it.

I was diagnosed in 1987. I've had some bad lows, but
never required an ambulance until a couple of years ago.
In the past two years, I've had paramedic visits four
times and two of those times I was brought to the ER.
I've also had two seizures at home (in the morning,
alone) and couldn't do anything to help myself until they
passed. I've thought about getting a new prescription for
glucagon, but I live alone and I don't think my cats
would know what to do with it.

Liz

Guy said:

Mona is an expert on Glucagon. You gals are useful
sometimes. I noted the old Al covered it the other day.
More inputs would be a desirable thing. As Mack and I
know,these severe hypos can be mean. I never had one until
around the fifteen year time. The glucagon saved many 911
runs. Severe hypos leave me screwed up for about two days.

The hangover effect hits me for the following 8 hours or
so, and my blood sugar gets pretty unpredictable during
that time too.

Hi Steph,

Thanks for the feedback. I have in fact learned
something today. 🙂

Randy

Stephanie Kolban said:

Randy, Last week I learned that glucagon is a hormone, not
a concentrated sugar (I thought it was a super
powerful/super concentrated sugar type of stuff.) The endo
who was talking about it mentioned that using it will give
the person really bad headaches. It's been used on me a
couple of times in the past. I remembered the headaches. I
just assumed the headaches were because of the very low
blood sugar. (Kind of like a hangover.) I was surprised to
learn that it was because of the hormone used in glucagon.

Quoted message said:

That being said, I also usually get a headache after my
sugars go really low. Unlike you, I've never had a
headache from the synthetic insulins.

Quoted message said:

I thought it was pretty interesting to learn something
new. Steph

Quoted message said:

"Randy Sigman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your
morningn insulin at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Never, never, never do this.

Quoted message said:

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a few hours.

Quoted message said:

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very

nice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lady who sometimes helps me out in a crisis?

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't
ever have to worry about such things, but that's not the
reason for my reply. Have you considered that the
headache you get from this kind of experience may not be
from the Glucagon, but rather from the overload of
insulin and/or the hypoglycemic results due to it?

I've never used Glucagon, but used to get serious
headaches (in the pre- synthetic insulin days) whenever
my glucose plummeted way too low. That never happens to
me anymore. 🙂

Best,

Randy

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Randy Sigman said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Never. Never. Never. Never accidentally take your
morningn insulin at bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Never, never, never do this.

Quoted message said:

I *hate* glucagon kits, they always give me this sick
nauseous headache for a few hours.

Quoted message said:

Have I mentioned today that I love my wife? And that
she's a very, very nice lady who sometimes helps me out
in a crisis?

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't
ever have to

Quoted message said:

Yeah, me too. It also may *not* have been that kind of
error on my part. I had another whopper last night, and
had been triple careful about taking the right doses of
night time insulin. This is of some concern to me, of
course: I need to revew my night time regimen and see what
the heck is going on.

Perhaps your requirements are changing. This happens to me
more often than I'd like. It might be best for you to
substantially reduce your dose and watch your BGs very
closely for a couple of days.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

worry about such things, but that's not the reason for my
reply. Have you considered that the headache you get from
this kind of experience may not be from the Glucagon, but
rather from the overload of insulin and/or the
hypoglycemic results due to it?

Quoted message said:

Trust me, it's the damn Glucagon. I've had the rare and
memorable hypoglycemic episode of doom. (I do try to avoid
them!). The only ones that hit like this are the ones
where some thoughtful person gave me glucagon.

Ok, point taken. 🙂

Best of luck,

Randy

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Randy Sigman wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi Nico,

Sorry to hear about your episode. As a pumper, I don't
ever have to

Quoted message said:

Yeah, me too. It also may *not* have been that kind of
error on my part. I had another whopper last night, and
had been triple careful about taking the right doses of
night time insulin. This is of some concern to me, of
course: I need to revew my night time regimen and see what
the heck is going on.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

worry about such things, but that's not the reason for my
reply. Have you considered that the headache you get from
this kind of experience may not be from the Glucagon, but
rather from the overload of insulin and/or the
hypoglycemic results due to it?

Quoted message said:

Trust me, it's the damn Glucagon. I've had the rare and
memorable hypoglycemic episode of doom. (I do try to avoid
them!). The only ones that hit like this are the ones
where some thoughtful person gave me glucagon.

another possibility is the PEAKY "human"-NPH that you use

my suggestion is to go to 2x of "human"-UL (for background),
with pork-R (for meals)

you can get pork-R at www.hocks.com for $42/vial

bill t1 since '57

p.s.

i've not seen hide nor hair of mickey lately. one guess is
that the "human" insulin got him. 🙁

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Yeah, me too. It also may not have been that kind of error
on my part. I had another whopper last night, and had been
triple careful about taking the right doses of night time
insulin. This is of some concern to me, of course: I need
to revew my night time regimen and see what the heck is
going on.

Hi Nico,

Last October I posted I was having trouble with nocturnal
hypoglycemia with no good explanation for the problem (no
exercise, diet, stress, weight or dose changes). The problem
went away in a week and I went back to my usual dosages.
This has not happened again.

My hypothesis for this unusual problem is hormonal. I think
it's caused by seasonal changes in the sun's intensity that
are sensed by the brain's pineal gland. My October bout was
the body getting ready for winter. As evidence for this
hypothesis, we know that HbA1c varies seasonally with lows
in July and highs in January. This happens like clock work
for me developing software, sitting at a computer year round
without much exercise (in the past). So it can't be more
activity in the summer. It must be something else. I'd guess
that cortisol levels are probably changing by this mechanism
and they eventually go back to normal.

In any case, my personal HbA1c data tracks the fall equinox
with a 2-3 week delay, to give you an idea. This places my
"metabolic winter adjustment" in the October time frame. I
now live in Florida and this effect has been more pronounced
than in the Boston area, (or I didn't take the time to
record the problem when living in Boston). I've also noticed
that there is a longer delay from the equinox when living in
the higher latitudes. (I've also noticed that DMs often have
disrupted hormonal cycles relative to normals; and, this
could also explain your long delay to this disturbance in
insulin sensitivity.)

It could also be antibody binding changes if you changed the
insulin molecule type within the last year or two.

If the problem self-corrects and you can't find any other
cause of this problem, then it may be hormonal.

Food for thought,
--
Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely
hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate
exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Elizabeth Blake wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Guy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

When I was first diagnosed (Type I) I vaguely remember
getting a prescription for glucagon. I know I threw it out
(the actual glucagon, not the prescription) after having it
around a few years and never using it (it expired). Just
recently, my mother asked me if I kept it on hand. She
couldn't remember the name, but I knew what she was talking
about. She

said

Quoted message said:

a woman at her senior citizen's center said she's had to
use it on herself several times. I thought that was weird.
I know if my blood sugar goes that low, I wouldn't be able
to think about using it on myself, never mind actually
administering it.

I was diagnosed in 1987. I've had some bad lows, but never
required an ambulance until a couple of years ago. In the
past two years, I've had paramedic visits four times and
two of those times I was brought to the ER. I've also had
two seizures at home (in the morning, alone) and couldn't
do anything to help myself until they passed. I've thought
about getting a

new

Quoted message said:

prescription for glucagon, but I live alone and I don't
think my cats would know what to do with it.

Liz

I'm with you in this. I carry glucose with me always,
and have it stashed all over the house, car, jackets,
sports kit, bedside table, etc, etc. I can't see where I
would have the smarts and coordination to perform the
Glucagon protocol on myself in preference to gobbling
gobs of glucose.

Regards
Old Al

Liz, Keeping glucagon around is a good idea. But, you're
right...your cats (I'm sure they are clever) won't be able
to use it. Is there someone you can call in the mornings as
a check in? My husband travels quite a bit, and we have a
system that he calls me in the morning to make sure I woke
up, and am okay. If I do not answer the phone, then he is to
call my brother or the hospital. If you have a neighbor or
nearby friend, perhaps you could work out some sort of
similar system. If you don't answer the phone, then your
neighbor or friend (who has a key) can come and check on you
and help you if you need help.

Steph

"Elizabeth Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
ink.net...

Quoted message said:

"Guy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mona is an expert on Glucagon. You gals are useful
sometimes. I noted the old Al covered it the other day.
More inputs would be a desirable thing. As Mack and I
know,these severe hypos can be mean. I never had one
until around the fifteen year time. The glucagon saved
many 911 runs. Severe hypos leave me screwed up for
about two days. Guy

When I was first diagnosed (Type I) I vaguely remember
getting a prescription for glucagon. I know I threw it out
(the actual glucagon,

not

Quoted message said:

the prescription) after having it around a few years and
never using it

(it

Quoted message said:

expired). Just recently, my mother asked me if I kept it
on hand. She couldn't remember the name, but I knew what
she was talking about. She

said

Quoted message said:

a woman at her senior citizen's center said she's had to
use it on herself several times. I thought that was weird.
I know if my blood sugar goes that low, I wouldn't be able
to think about using it on myself, never mind actually
administering it.

I was diagnosed in 1987. I've had some bad lows, but never
required an ambulance until a couple of years ago. In the
past two years, I've had paramedic visits four times and
two of those times I was brought to the

ER.

Quoted message said:

I've also had two seizures at home (in the morning, alone)
and couldn't do anything to help myself until they passed.
I've thought about getting a

new

Quoted message said:

prescription for glucagon, but I live alone and I don't
think my cats

would

Quoted message said:

know what to do with it.

Liz

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:53:45 GMT, Jim Dumas

[email protected]!mindspring.com said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Yeah, me too. It also may not have been that kind of
error on my part. I had another whopper last night, and
had been triple careful about taking the right doses of
night time insulin. This is of some concern to me, of
course: I need to revew my night time regimen and see
what the heck is going on.

Hi Nico,

Nico, thanks for a very good thread. It makes up for a lot
of the recent nonsense. It allows people to see a broader
picture. Sorry you suffered, but you have been around for
along time with some excellent info. Thanks for that.
Helped me. Guy

Jim, Interesting hypothesis regarding the fall equinox. Why,
however, would it be more pronounced while living in Fl
rather than Ma? It seems to me that the more temperate Fl
climate would lessen the seasonal effect. Or, did I
misunderstand your hypothesis?

Steph

"Jim Dumas" <[email protected]!mindspring.com> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
ink.net...

Quoted message said:

Nico Kadel-Garcia said:

Yeah, me too. It also may not have been that kind of
error on my part. I had another whopper last night, and
had been triple careful about taking the right doses of
night time insulin. This is of some concern to me, of
course: I need to revew my night time regimen and see
what the heck is going on.

Hi Nico,

Last October I posted I was having trouble with nocturnal
hypoglycemia

with

Quoted message said:

no good explanation for the problem (no exercise, diet,
stress, weight or dose changes). The problem went away in
a week and I went back to my

usual

Quoted message said:

dosages. This has not happened again.

My hypothesis for this unusual problem is hormonal. I
think it's caused

by

Quoted message said:

seasonal changes in the sun's intensity that are sensed by
the brain's pineal gland. My October bout was the body
getting ready for winter. As evidence for this hypothesis,
we know that HbA1c varies seasonally with lows in July and
highs in January. This happens like clock work for me
developing software, sitting at a computer year round
without much

exercise

Quoted message said:

(in the past). So it can't be more activity in the summer.
It must be something else. I'd guess that cortisol levels
are probably changing by this mechanism and they
eventually go back to normal.

In any case, my personal HbA1c data tracks the fall
equinox with a 2-3

week

Quoted message said:

delay, to give you an idea. This places my "metabolic
winter adjustment" in the October time frame. I now live
in Florida and this effect has been more pronounced than
in the Boston area, (or I didn't take the time to record
the problem when living in Boston). I've also noticed
that there

is

Quoted message said:

a longer delay from the equinox when living in the higher
latitudes.

(I've

Quoted message said:

also noticed that DMs often have disrupted hormonal cycles
relative to normals; and, this could also explain your
long delay to this disturbance in insulin sensitivity.)

It could also be antibody binding changes if you changed
the insulin molecule type within the last year or two.

If the problem self-corrects and you can't find any other
cause of this problem, then it may be hormonal.

Food for thought,
--
Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely
hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate
exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Stephanie Kolban said:

Interesting hypothesis regarding the fall equinox. Why,
however, would it be more pronounced while living in Fl
rather than Ma? It seems to me that the more temperate Fl
climate would lessen the seasonal effect. Or, did I
misunderstand your hypothesis?

Hi Steph,

It has to do with relative sun intensity, much like the
relative BG sensor in the brain for hypoglycemic events. We
have to reset the BG sensor when we become hypoglycemic
unaware. A similar process happens with bright sunshine when
living long-term in Florida (IMO). So we need to reset the
sun sensor from the eyes to pineal gland with bright light.
This synchronizes the body with yearly hormonal cycles that
slow the metabolism in the winter months and increase the
metabolism in the summer months. This is the major cause of
yearly HbA1c cycles, IMO. But this HbA1c link has yet to be
proven, so this is my hypothesis.

My personal HbA1c data shows a 0.3% yearly variation in
Florida versus a .7% variation in Boston (for constant red
blood cell cohort weighted glycemia over 120 day mean
lifespan with 10 day standard deviation). This variation is
what I see theoretically if BG is identical in both
locations when trying to achieve my 6% HbA1c target. My
personal data suggests that if I lived at the equator, I'd
have less yearly variation in HbA1c. But I need more years
of data to make sure this is true for me.

My hypothesis about low cortisol synchronized and delayed to
the fall equinox also needs more data. So I'm waiting to see
if I have higher insulin sensitivity this October, that in
turn causes nocturnal hypoglycemia. This past October, I was
clobbered 3 nights (4 in 7 days) in a row even after
lowering my bedtime NPH. So my "apparent" dawn phenomenon
was much lower for roughly a week, even though it is not
supposed to be caused by cortisol. But obviously, if
cortisol is low, insulin requirements drop as well. This
will appear as a weaker dawn phenomenon. (I clearly could
not be sick at this time, as that would increase my insulin
requirements.)

In any case, if the sunlight is brighter, the pineal gland
should have a stronger impact on hormonal cycles. This would
suggest an increase in cortisol after the spring equinox for
higher activity levels in the summer; and, a decrease in
cortisol (exercise stress hormone) after the fall equinox in
preparation for lower activity levels in the winter. The
change in this stress hormone could cause a temporary
disturbance in BG management. (The pineal gland kicked the
cortisol "daily pacemaker" and it took a few days to get
back on track.)

That's the theory,
--
Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely
hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate
exercise, typically <6% HbA1c