MILLAR!!!-prologue........

Carl Sundquist said:

"David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plateau == chain ring (noun singular) Plateaux == chain rings (noun plural)

And in English, plate usually refers to a spoke protector.

I always thought of a chainring as a plate and a spoke protector as a pie (pan) plate.

Believe it or not, this is the first time I've ever heard of a chainring being called a "plate". For
one thing, I haven't seen too many solid disk chainrings except on children's bikes and BMX.

David Ryan said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

>
> Plateau == chain ring (noun singular) Plateaux == chain rings (noun plural)
>

And in English, plate usually refers to a spoke protector.

I always thought of a chainring as a plate and a spoke protector as a pie (pan) plate.

Believe it or not, this is the first time I've ever heard of a chainring being called a "plate".
For one thing, I haven't seen too many solid disk chainrings except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more stra

Quoted message said:

chainring being called a "plate". For one thing, I haven't seen too many solid disk chainrings
except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more snge then
the English (the English English!) who call it a ~Clanger~

Quoted message said:

too many solid disk chainrings except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more stra

Quoted message said:

chainring being called a "plate". For one thing, I haven't seen too many solid disk chainrings
except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more snge then
the English (the English English!) who call it a ~Clanger~

Quoted message said:

too many solid disk chainrings except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more stra

Quoted message said:

chainring being called a "plate". For one thing, I haven't seen too many solid disk chainrings
except on children's bikes and BMX.

You need to understand the French idiom, Carl.

Without wanting to be argumentative, calling it, as the French do, a ~Plateau~ is no more strange
then the English (the English English!) who call it a ~Clanger~ - presumably some abstruse reference
to a bell like sound? - or the Italians who call it a ~Corona~ (Crown)

Amit said:

It's his own fault. He opted to ride without a front changer. This pic shows it clearly:

Quoted message said:

grahamwatson.com8.jpgOpen ↗

I've got a low profile TT bike that I had custom made. It has no place to mount a front changer. My
thinking was that I would not want to ride this bike on any course that needed a small ring so there
was no point.

I never ever drop the chain, but there are some very strict parameters that I have to adhere to
for this to work. One is that the bike is effectively a five speed so that the chain angle is not
too great. I had this thing built in the mid 80s when hubs and freewheels were narrower and found
I could not reliably use the full width of the cluster. The only difference now is things are a
few mm wider.

The other thing I learned is that there is a definite correct pedalling technique. By that I mean
that it is very important to always keep tension in the chain. The few times I've dropped the chain
it was as a result of coasting over a rough stretch of road. I think what happened was that the
chain would start bouncing and then pop off when I started pedalling again. Once I learned to pedal
through these sections it stopped happening.

Like I said, I've had this thing since the mid 80s and have lots of competitive and training miles
on it. The chain does not drop off. Provided I don't push my luck.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

here's a bit on this point from Cyclingnews.com:

"But when you're using just one chainring, a front derailleur can still have a useful function:
keeping the chain in place. With wide modern sprocket clusters and short chainstays, the chain can
end up at quite a sharp angle across the bike, which means there's a substantial force trying to
pull it sideways off the chainring. Throw in modern chainrings with shaped teeth that are designed
to allow the chain to move off the ring, and you have all the ingredients for a disaster,
Millar-style."

[email hidden] (Shayana Kadidal) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if a chain is more likely to fall off of a modern ramped chainring (which is designed to
allow a smooth slip to the small ring off of certain teeth) than an old-fashioned ring with
uniform teeth (like a track ring).

Quoted message said:

--Shayana Kadidal

You zeroed in on it. Apparently Millar wanted a chaining that was designed with straight cut teeth.
That was why he pointed out the ONCE bikes that were designed to be rrun without a small ring and a
front derailleur.

"Shayana Kadidal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

here's a bit on this point from Cyclingnews.com:

"But when you're using just one chainring, a front derailleur can still have a useful function:
keeping the chain in place. With wide modern sprocket clusters and short chainstays, the chain can
end up at quite a sharp angle across the bike, which means there's a substantial force trying to
pull it sideways off the chainring. Throw in modern chainrings with shaped teeth that are designed
to allow the chain to move off the ring, and you have all the ingredients for a disaster,
Millar-style."

[email hidden] (Shayana Kadidal) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if a chain is more likely to fall off of a modern ramped chainring (which is designed
to allow a smooth slip to the small ring off of certain teeth) than an old-fashioned ring with
uniform teeth (like a track ring).

Quoted message said:

--Shayana Kadidal

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I never ever drop the chain, but there are some very strict parameters that I have to adhere to
for this to work. One is that the bike is effectively a five speed so that the chain angle is not
too great. I had this thing built in the mid 80s when hubs and freewheels were narrower and found
I could not reliably use the full width of the cluster. The only difference now is things are a
few mm wider.

When 5 spd was the norm you could commonly buy a bike with only a rear derailleur. You're right,
this setup doesn't work as well with modern equipment.

Quoted message said:

The other thing I learned is that there is a definite correct pedalling technique. By that I mean
that it is very important to always keep tension in the chain. The few times I've dropped the
chain it was as a result of coasting over a rough stretch of road.

This contradicts what you said above, ie you never drop the chain. Plus having a front derailleur
gives you a way to quickly (or automatically) remount the chain.

Boardman rode the prologues with a single chainring, but like others who go this route he used a
fixed front derailleur as a chainguide.

Quoted message said:

Like I said, I've had this thing since the mid 80s and have lots of competitive and training miles
on it. The chain does not drop off. Provided I don't push my luck.

So that's a pretty big caveat. You know from experience that you have to exercise a special
technique on that bike. Like how only Jimi Hendrix could play Jimi Hendrix's guitar.

It comes to light that 5 of nine Cofidis riders had the same problem in an event that lasts 8
minutes! It incredible that no one in the loop recognized not having a front changer is a problem !

If Millar dropped the chain while out of the saddle he could've lost more than a handful of seconds.

-Amit

Amit said:

Quoted message said:

The other thing I learned is that there is a definite correct pedalling technique. By that I mean
that it is very important to always keep tension in the chain. The few times I've dropped the
chain it was as a result of coasting over a rough stretch of road.

Quoted message said:

This contradicts what you said above, ie you never drop the chain. Plus having a front derailleur
gives you a way to quickly (or automatically) remount the chain.

I bought the bike in 1986. That first year I dropped the chain a couple of times. Each time it was
after coasting over a rough section of road, just as I started pedaling again. There have been years
where I haven't ridden it much, and also years where I rode it weekly at our club TT. The last time
I dropped the chain, Ronald Reagan was president.

Quoted message said:

Boardman rode the prologues with a single chainring, but like others who go this route he used a
fixed front derailleur as a chainguide.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like I said, I've had this thing since the mid 80s and have lots of competitive and training
miles on it. The chain does not drop off. Provided I don't push my luck.

Quoted message said:

So that's a pretty big caveat. You know from experience that you have to exercise a special
technique on that bike. Like how only Jimi Hendrix could play Jimi Hendrix's guitar.

It happened a couple of times, always in the same circumstance. Then I figured it out and it stopped
happening. I didn't regard it as a big adjustment. There are places where you shouldn't coast,
that's about it.

Quoted message said:

It comes to light that 5 of nine Cofidis riders had the same problem in an event that lasts 8
minutes! It incredible that no one in the loop recognized not having a front changer is a
problem !

One piece of advice that I got long ago was to not try new stuff out for the first time on the day
of the race. There is abundant evidence that Cofidis is management challenged. I doubt that Bondue
got dumped for this, much more likely is that this was the camel's back breaking straw. If the team
is really run according to the rumors then it should have happened long ago.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The other thing I learned is that there is a definite correct pedalling technique. By that I mean
that it is very important to always keep tension in the chain. The few times I've dropped the
chain it was as a result of coasting over a rough stretch of road. I think what happened was that
the chain would start bouncing and then pop off when I started pedalling again. Once I learned to
pedal through these sections it stopped happening.

What'd you do about bumpy corners?

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The other thing I learned is that there is a definite correct pedalling technique. By that I mean
that it is very important to always keep tension in the chain. The few times I've dropped the
chain it was as a result of coasting over a rough stretch of road. I think what happened was that
the chain would start bouncing and then pop off when I started pedalling again. Once I learned to
pedal through these sections it stopped happening.

Quoted message said:

What'd you do about bumpy corners?

If I coast over any rough pavement I don't start pedaling until it gets smooth again.

The bike has a 24" front wheel and has some interesting handling characteristics that I might adjust
to If I rode it enough. But I don't. Its designed to go fast on a flat and straight road. Which is
not that great a limitation for me since that describes the large majority of time trials here. If
there is lots of climbing or corners then its the wrong bike.

And I don't think I would ride it on any course with cobbles. Even though that's not where Millar
dropped his chain I still have to wonder how the decision was made to remove the front changer.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's his own fault. He opted to ride without a front changer. This pic shows it clearly:

grahamwatson.com8.jpgOpen ↗

Excellent eye. I never bought the other explanations. This puts the world right again: Millar is
Millar's own worst enemy.

As I pointed out many posts ago!

Mark

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You zeroed in on it. Apparently Millar wanted a chaining that was designed with straight cut
teeth. That was why he pointed out the ONCE bikes that were designed to be rrun without a small
ring and a front derailleur.

Except they had front derailleurs:

cyclingnews.comtour.phpOpen ↗ cicles

Jeff

Then why the hell won't he take some responsibility for the chain falling off?

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You zeroed in on it. Apparently Millar wanted a chaining that was

designed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with straight cut teeth. That was why he pointed out the ONCE bikes that were designed to be
rrun without a small ring and a front derailleur.

Except they had front derailleurs:

cyclingnews.comtour.phpOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

cicles

Jeff

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then why the hell won't he take some responsibility for the chain falling off?

Rule number one of the (primarily) male ego: Always blame someone/something else, even if
you're wrong.

Jeff