Melb–Bridge/Burwood/Church St getting sorted

flyingdutch said:

Got a call from Vicroads yesterday.
Was asked for comments on ways to improve safety for cyclists in this
notoriously bad intersection.
Looks like 75tram line citybound is getting realigned and therefore
room for bikelane and also shared path on that side, with appropriate
ramps, etc

I suggested a green lane (as per Doncaster?Bulleen Rd intersection) for
eastbound cyclist wanting to go straight/'right'. Whilst it's a scenario
screaming for one to 'take the lane' every bit should help i guess.
Better ramp etc onto improved share path turning up Church St also and
then back into an EBL up the slope.
Never going to be a location for a perfect solution as gradients,
angles, space will only ever allow so much improvement.

Where exactly is this one dutchy? Melways ref? Corner of Burwood hwy
(toorak rd) and church st? I ride through that area a lot, but don't
know the road names that well and don't have a melways handy ATM.

Quoted message said:

watch this (that) space...

Ja .. but which space is that? 🙂

quote='Bleve'flyingdutch said:

Got a call from Vicroads yesterday.
Was asked for comments on ways to improve safety for cyclists in this
notoriously bad intersection.
Looks like 75tram line citybound is getting realigned and therefore
room for bikelane and also shared path on that side, with appropriate
ramps, etc

I suggested a green lane (as per Doncaster?Bulleen Rd intersection) for
eastbound cyclist wanting to go straight/'right'. Whilst it's a scenario
screaming for one to 'take the lane' every bit should help i guess.
Better ramp etc onto improved share path turning up Church St also and
then back into an EBL up the slope.
Never going to be a location for a perfect solution as gradients,
angles, space will only ever allow so much improvement.

Where exactly is this one dutchy? Melways ref? Corner of Burwood hwy
(toorak rd) and church st? I ride through that area a lot, but don't
know the road names that well and don't have a melways handy ATM.

Quoted message said:

watch this (that) space...

Ja .. but which space is that? 🙂[/QUOTE]
Don't you love the some of the street naming. Burwood Hwy starts in Ferntree Gully and ends at Warrigal Rd in Burwood. It then becomes Toorak Rd and takes you through Toorak. Veer right at Camberwell Rd and you end up in Camberwell. All good until you keep going down Camberwell Rd and end up on Burwood Rd, which goes nowhere near Burwood and never intended to. If you keep going you end up converging with Church St just before the Yarra and joining onto Bridge Rd. Follow Bridge Rd a bit further and you cross Church St again. Except its a different one. What the hell were the councillors on when they named the streets all those years ago.

flyingdutch said:

Got a call from Vicroads yesterday.
Was asked for comments on ways to improve safety for cyclists in this
notoriously bad intersection.
Looks like 75tram line citybound is getting realigned and therefore
room for bikelane and also shared path on that side, with appropriate
ramps, etc

I suggested a green lane (as per Doncaster?Bulleen Rd intersection) for
eastbound cyclist wanting to go straight/'right'. Whilst it's a scenario
screaming for one to 'take the lane' every bit should help i guess.

I come through this one every day (that I commut eanyway). If a green
lane does go ahead, I'd say some serious signage is going to be required
to warn the drivers of the change. With the pace they come around the
bend and over the bridge to turn left they are not going to be expecting
to "give way" (please no right of way/duty of care arguments). Makes me
glad I go left.

DaveB

Bleve said:

Where exactly is this one dutchy? Melways ref? Corner of Burwood hwy
(toorak rd) and church st? I ride through that area a lot, but don't
know the road names that well and don't have a melways handy ATM.

Quoted message said:

watch this (that) space...

Ja .. but which space is that? 🙂

east-end of bridge Rd, where it crosses River.

flyingdutch said:

Bleve said:

Where exactly is this one dutchy? Melways ref? Corner of Burwood hwy
(toorak rd) and church st? I ride through that area a lot, but don't
know the road names that well and don't have a melways handy ATM.

Quoted message said:

watch this (that) space...

Ja .. but which space is that? 🙂

east-end of bridge Rd, where it crosses River.

Ok. Outbound it's ok as long as you're not trying to bear right onto
Burwood Rd, and even then it's not too bad except when it's wet and you
have to veer over the tram tracks, then it's dodgey but only because of
the wet metal traction/tram gutter issue, and that's hardly unique to
that intersection! I've never had an issue there anyway. Inbound, no
problems all that I'm aware of, it's not a bad intersection at the
moment. I ride this intersection inbound most days and outbound when I
feel like riding that way, and it's never really been a drama - as long
as you hold the lane when bearing left onto church st it's fine.

What're they planning to do to the tram lines?

[quote="Bleve"]cant quite decipher what i was given yesterday as yet...

This intersection is the 2nd highest accident blackspot for cyclists (and mbikes!) in Boroondara. Kew Junction being the worst...

Was quietly surprised to see just how many kids/mums ride to the school on the corner. go mums! 😄

[quote="flyingdutch"]

Bleve said:

cant quite decipher what i was given yesterday as yet...

This intersection is the 2nd highest accident blackspot for cyclists (and mbikes!) in Boroondara. Kew Junction being the worst...

Was quietly surprised to see just how many kids/mums ride to the school on the corner. go mums! 😄

eddiec said:

Quoted message said:

Oh great - so now i realise I ride through Boroondara's 2 worst
blackspots every day!!

Me too but never had a problem at Kew Junction. However that may be
because of the route through it I take, and also this is one place where
I make it quite obvious I will be taking the lane. Also helps if you can
filter through to the front of th etraffic and take off at the front
when the lights go green.

DaveB

I go through this intersection when commuting (Brunswick<->Hawthorn).

Eastbound, in the morning, from Bridge rd I turn right into Burwood.
I've found the best approach is to stick to the left lane (the one that
goes to Church st) until there are no more Church st bound cars, then
take up that lane and indicate to turn right. I try to cross the tram
tracks as close as possible to 90 deg by trying to get as wide left
from cars as possible while starting to turn right (I hope that makes
sense). When going east, there are a set of ped crossing traffic
lights before the bridge that can mess things up, as a lot of cars get
banked up behind you when stopped for a red light. You could try and
sprint it out, but I prefer to stick in the left lane and ride slowly
until Church st traffic clears.

Westbound, at night, there's no real drama. The only thing I can think
of is that sometimes cars in the right hand lane, coming from Burwood
rd onto Bridge rd, merge into the left hand lane without warning. I
think it's because 2 lanes of car traffic are trying to turn onto 1
lane of car traffic + 1 lane with tram tracks. This seems to confuse
people who think that they shouldn't be on the tram tracks. They merge
left and squeeze left hand lane traffic. I see this when riding bike
and when driving. Also, cars do take this turn at speed, and can be
very hazardous (to cars) when wet bc of tram tracks - results in cars
wrapped around power poles on opposite side of the road.

What do you mean when you say tram 75 is being re-aligned? Taking
another route? Change to tracks at that intersection?

-Andres.

On 2006-04-27, eddiec (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

flyingdutch said:

Quoted message said:

Bleve Wrote:
cant quite decipher what i was given yesterday as yet...

This intersection is the 2nd highest accident blackspot for cyclists
(and mbikes!) in Boroondara. Kew Junction being the worst...

Was quietly surprised to see just how many kids/mums ride to the school
on the corner. go mums! 😄> >

Oh great - so now i realise I ride through Boroondara's 2 worst
blackspots every day!!

Not surprised it's so bad - the pinchspots, the ethereal, unmarked
two lanes that merge into the tram lane going inbound, drivers
cutting in to turn right outbround, the bad gutter across the bridge
that i've seen catch at least one cyclist with unfortunate results...
There's a few hundred metres there that are quite an adventure...

I *hate* these 5+ sided junctions we seem so fond of down here in
oldmelbournetown. Doncaster road becomes doncaster road through what
looks like a 5 sided intersection (might just be 4 sided with funny
angles). I came up to a light that was red last night, and two arrows
turned green. Both arrows were pointing left, just diferent degrees
of leftedness. I thought I was going straight ahead to the other side
of doncaster road, so I stopped, until I eventually worked out the
main light (which was still red) was for the road pointing to the
right.

I may be used to camberwell junction from the 4 years I have been
doing it twice daily, but still, approaching from a different
direction to usual, and I really have to put my thinking caps on which
particular left it is that I want to be taking. I always seemed to
screw up the line I was taking even in the car, if I needed to turn,
because you can't see the either of the streets until you have rounded
the corner.

--
TimC
The Sell Dervers are balanced behind another Sell Derver, and both
have their data protected from Badness by a Dedundant Array of
Inexpensive Risks -- Aquarion in ASR revealing the secrets of RAID

TimC said:

Quoted message said:

But that corner? People turning right outbound is the only bad bit
that I can think of.

Yeah, and given that the right turn is a PBN route, I would think that
there is a fair amount of right turning going on.

PBN?

On 2006-04-27, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

Quoted message said:

But that corner? People turning right outbound is the only bad bit
that I can think of.

Yeah, and given that the right turn is a PBN route, I would think that
there is a fair amount of right turning going on.

PBN?

Principle Bicycle Network of main routes consisting of on road bicycle
lanes. That network that is not actually a network yet, and only has
1.5% of the coverage of the road network.

--
TimC
bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!
-- the Swedish BOFH

TimC said:

On 2006-04-27, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

> But that corner? People turning right outbound is the only bad bit
> that I can think of.

Yeah, and given that the right turn is a PBN route, I would think that
there is a fair amount of right turning going on.

PBN?

Principle Bicycle Network of main routes consisting of on road bicycle
lanes.

Ahha, thankyou.