"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A4hYf.4553$fS6.742@dukeread11...
Quoted message said:
Skippy said:
"Hell and High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
>What are the main differences between frame materials?? > >Carbon >Aluminum >Steel >Boron >Scandium > > >?? > > >Thanks > >-Bob >
Boron is generally used in composites (Kestrel and Trek spring to mind). composites generally have carbon and aramid fibres (Kevlar) . Some have glass.
The Bianchi Boron XL apparently has some boron in the steel. From their marketing-spew:
Triple-butted Boron steel alloy. Very high tensile strength of 1800N/mm2, 3 times stronger than the best aluminum alloys, 2 times stronger than titanium alloy and 25% stronger than the best non-Boron steel alloys. An exclusive heat-treated Boron steel alloy produced to Bianchi's specifications. MegaPro downtube is 0.6mm thick at butts and only 0.4mm thick in the center. Post-welding stresses eliminated by water quenching, tempering, heat treatment and open air cooling.
-- Phil, Squid-in-Training
I'm sure almost every element has been tried in alloys of steel, aluminium and titanium. Trek market on the fact that they've got zirconium in their ZR9000 stuff. Gaint used to go on about the copper in their CU92. Definite marketting waffle though, no mention of modulus.
Skippy E&OE
copper is the oldest of the precipitation hardening systems in aluminum. it works and it works /really/ well. but to significantly affect modulus, you have to go lithium.
I personally have two ti bikes, they ride nice and work well. They are made of straight gage tubing, nothing special. Ti does not rust, no need for a paint job and scratches buff right out with a scotch-brite pad. Ti is repairable, but the cost is pretty damn high.
I like Ti as well. You can still get a new TST (56cm only) for $450 at Cambria. Also, new Habaneros are $800, Aerolites $600. Every winter Litespeeds go on sale... I think Firenzes were $1000 with a new Ouzo Pro. Lots of used frames in good condition on ebay for <$500.
I personally have two ti bikes, they ride nice and work well. They are made of straight gage tubing, nothing special. Ti does not rust, no need for a paint job and scratches buff right out with a scotch-brite pad. Ti is repairable, but the cost is pretty damn high.
I like Ti as well. You can still get a new TST (56cm only) for $450 at Cambria. Also, new Habaneros are $800, Aerolites $600. Every winter Litespeeds go on sale... I think Firenzes were $1000 with a new Ouzo Pro. Lots of used frames in good condition on ebay for <$500.
I'm sorry, I did not make myself clear. The cost of repairing ti can be pretty damn high. I bought a winter deal Litespeed a couple years ago and my other frame is a TST. Both are great frames.
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A4hYf.4553$fS6.742@dukeread11...
Quoted message said:
Skippy wrote:
> "Hell and High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >> What are the main differences between frame materials?? >> >> Carbon >> Aluminum >> Steel >> Boron >> Scandium >> >> >> ?? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -Bob >> > > Boron is generally used in composites (Kestrel and Trek spring to > mind). composites generally have carbon and aramid fibres (Kevlar) > . Some have glass.
The Bianchi Boron XL apparently has some boron in the steel. From their marketing-spew:
Triple-butted Boron steel alloy. Very high tensile strength of 1800N/mm2, 3 times stronger than the best aluminum alloys, 2 times stronger than titanium alloy and 25% stronger than the best non-Boron steel alloys. An exclusive heat-treated Boron steel alloy produced to Bianchi's specifications. MegaPro downtube is 0.6mm thick at butts and only 0.4mm thick in the center. Post-welding stresses eliminated by water quenching, tempering, heat treatment and open air cooling. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training
I'm sure almost every element has been tried in alloys of steel, aluminium and titanium. Trek market on the fact that they've got zirconium in their ZR9000 stuff. Gaint used to go on about the copper in their CU92. Definite marketting waffle though, no mention of modulus. Skippy E&OE
copper is the oldest of the precipitation hardening systems in aluminum. it works and it works /really/ well. but to significantly affect modulus, you have to go lithium.
How come we (I) haven't seen lithium alloys yet?
At least you could eat your frame and be happy. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A4hYf.4553$fS6.742@dukeread11...
>Skippy wrote: > > >>"Hell and High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:[email hidden]... >> >> >>>What are the main differences between frame materials?? >>> >>>Carbon >>>Aluminum >>>Steel >>>Boron >>>Scandium >>> >>> >>>?? >>> >>> >>>Thanks >>> >>>-Bob >>> >> >>Boron is generally used in composites (Kestrel and Trek spring to >>mind). composites generally have carbon and aramid fibres (Kevlar) >>. Some have glass. > >The Bianchi Boron XL apparently has some boron in the steel. From >their marketing-spew: > >Triple-butted Boron steel alloy. Very high tensile strength of >1800N/mm2, 3 times stronger than the best aluminum alloys, 2 times >stronger than titanium alloy and 25% stronger than the best >non-Boron steel alloys. An exclusive heat-treated Boron steel alloy >produced to Bianchi's specifications. MegaPro downtube is 0.6mm >thick at butts and only 0.4mm thick in the center. Post-welding >stresses eliminated by water quenching, tempering, heat treatment >and open air cooling. -- >Phil, Squid-in-Training >
I'm sure almost every element has been tried in alloys of steel, aluminium and titanium. Trek market on the fact that they've got zirconium in their ZR9000 stuff. Gaint used to go on about the copper in their CU92. Definite marketting waffle though, no mention of modulus. Skippy E&OE
copper is the oldest of the precipitation hardening systems in aluminum. it works and it works /really/ well. but to significantly affect modulus, you have to go lithium.
How come we (I) haven't seen lithium alloys yet?
reynolds make lithium alloy tube, and trek announced they'd be coming to market with it at one point iirc, but carbon is the material of choice right now. i'm not sure what the deal is on fabrication difficulty when it comes to welding, but the airbus a380 is supposed to make extensive use of lithium aluminum alloys and that's allegedly a welded plane.
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
What are the main differences between frame materials?? Carbon Aluminum Steel Boron Scandium
??? Material is not that important. How it is used is much more important. You can make a good, or bad, bike from all of those materials. --------------- Alex
reynolds make lithium alloy tube, and trek announced they'd be coming to market with it at one point iirc, but carbon is the material of choice right now.
Of course it is. It's trendy, hi-tech and 'hot'. And, as the cost of tooling and manufacture drops like a stone, the makers stand to have a few really profitable years selling plastic bikes. This scenario was played out with aluminum not so long ago, remember? What's next? Plastic becomes a commodity product (even cheaper than welding aluminum) and the industry moves on to the next big thing. Will that thing be lithium alloy tubing?
i'm not sure what the deal is on fabrication difficulty when
Quoted message said:
it comes to welding, but the airbus a380 is supposed to make extensive use of lithium aluminum alloys and that's allegedly a welded plane.
