Marathon Training Schedule

Marathong? That may chafe a little...lol!

http://www.coolrunning.com/ look under training. Good luck!

--
I smile and go off waving
(Amiably) - for that's my way

Baal

http://www.helden.org.uk
"kricket" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello runners!

I was just wondering if anyone knows of a really good online marathong
training schedule???

Many thanks!

Kricket

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Kricket said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows of a really good online
marathon training schedule?

Depends.

There's a whole bunch of schedules and other info online, and some of
it comes from respected experts.

But what exactly are you looking for? Without further data it sounds
like you might be asking for the best list which says something like
"run 8 miles Monday, 12 Tue, 8 Wed including 6x1000m intervals..."

At the very least, if that's what you seek, we'd need to know more
about your history and your goals etc. to have even a ballpark idea
what sort of training is appropriate. And even then, I'm personally a
little dubious of precise schedules: while they may seem most helpful
for relative novices, I think they may be a lot more dangerous for a
beginner than a more experienced runner - because for instance the
experienced runner will know when to take a day or three easy or off
altogether because that twinge in his calf isn't simply "normal
marathon training soreness" whereas the novice may trust The Schedule
above what his own body's telling him.

Or not. I'm sure that not only is there no "one size fits all"
schedule, there's no "one size fits all" warning about schedules which
applies to all runners.

Anyhow, my bias is that while you may want to look at a few online
schedules, if you're not getting lots of in-person instruction / info /
feedback from a training group or coach or mentor, you're better served
by a good book (or more than one) than an online schedule - because a
good book will give you a lot more information about how to avoid
injuries and know what pace to run and dozens of other things to
supplement the schedule and put it in context, than simply "8 Mon, 12
Tue, etc"

All that out of the way... did you end up running a marathon in
January, as you posted about here - http://tinyurl.com/r25aa - back in
November? What sort of training did you do. and what are you looking
to improve this time?

Thanks for the advice.

I do agree that one size doesn't necessarily fit all with a set
schedule. I'm just looking for some guidelines on mileage etc. I did
buy a book that I like, but the schedule seems a little off to me so I
wanted to compare it to some others. "4 months to a 4 hour marathon"

My goal is to run around a 4 hour marathon. The marathon is just over
4 months away.

And yes... I did run the marathon (my first) in January. I have to be
honest; my training then wasn't that great. I'm hoping to plan
something that will help me accomplish my goal while preventing some of
the injuries that I encounter the first time around.

In article <[email hidden]>,

kricket said:

Thanks for the advice.

I do agree that one size doesn't necessarily fit all with a set
schedule. I'm just looking for some guidelines on mileage etc. I did
buy a book that I like, but the schedule seems a little off to me so I
wanted to compare it to some others. "4 months to a 4 hour marathon"

My goal is to run around a 4 hour marathon. The marathon is just over
4 months away.

And yes... I did run the marathon (my first) in January. I have to be
honest; my training then wasn't that great. I'm hoping to plan
something that will help me accomplish my goal while preventing some of
the injuries that I encounter the first time around.

So what was your training then? What was un-great about it?
What were the injuries? What did you do about them? Are you
really recovered from them?

In general, I prefer the chef's approach to training programs --
what are the ingredients you need more of in the next effort. Since
we don't know what ingredients were present or missing last time, it's
hard to give you a better recipe.

Some stock ingredients for a marathon program are:
3 20(+) mile long runs towards the end
average over 40 mpw for several weeks
taper across the last 3 weeks of the program
do some running, in chunks of say 5 miles, around marathon pace
have a realistic target time for the race

If you're coming off the couch (down since the end of the marathon
in January) ... better to defer to a later marathon. If you're currently
running 30 mpw with 10 mile long runs, you don't need to ramp up as
hard for weekly or long run totals. If it's 10 mpw and 4 is longest,
you'll need a steeper ramp. and so on.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Thanks again..

Let's see... my ingredients:

I did have to take some time off after the first marathon. I had some
problems w/ shin splints and then IT band problems at the end. I have
been seeing a sports injury doctor on a bi-weekly basis since then. I
do regular exercises to help w/ my shins and I have been using a foam
roller to help work out the kinks w/ my IT band.

It did take a while, but I have been running regularly (and healthy)
for at least a month. I have been running around 15 - 20 mpw. My
longest run has been about 6.5 miles. I have been trying to build up
my mileage a little more slowly then last time. I believe doing too
much too fast was part of my problem previously.

The program I found does have me running a 19 mile run in week 9, 21 in
week 10, 23 in week 12, and 24 in week 14, then taper for the next
three weeks. The part I'm questioning is during the week it has 'jog
for 30 minutes' listed for two of the days almost every week. That to
me just doesn't sound like its enough. It also has speed training one
day, cross training two days, and one long run and a day of rest. This
changes more towards the end, having longer runs and more days off etc.

What do you think???

I think you already know the answer.
I'd recommend specifivity and gradualness.
I mean if you want to run for a long time, do long runs
and dont worry so much about speed work or cross-training stuff.

The key is the long run every other weekend.
So you can run 7 miles now.
Then plan 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,18,20,22,24 over six months.
Sounds like you run about four miles average run now. I'd recommend
boosting that to an hour a run over a couple months.
I'd recommend two rest days a week and slightly long basic runs
over one rest day a week, if fatique or injury becomes an issue.

Quoted message said:

Thanks again..

Let's see... my ingredients:

I did have to take some time off after the first marathon. I had some
problems w/ shin splints and then IT band problems at the end. I have
been seeing a sports injury doctor on a bi-weekly basis since then. I
do regular exercises to help w/ my shins and I have been using a foam
roller to help work out the kinks w/ my IT band.

It did take a while, but I have been running regularly (and healthy)
for at least a month. I have been running around 15 - 20 mpw. My
longest run has been about 6.5 miles. I have been trying to build up
my mileage a little more slowly then last time. I believe doing too
much too fast was part of my problem previously.

The program I found does have me running a 19 mile run in week 9, 21 in
week 10, 23 in week 12, and 24 in week 14, then taper for the next
three weeks. The part I'm questioning is during the week it has 'jog
for 30 minutes' listed for two of the days almost every week. That to
me just doesn't sound like its enough.

The only thing more important than the long run is the recovery. So two
30-minute recovery jogs sounds reasonable to me.

Quoted message said:

It also has speed training one day, cross training two days, and one
long run and a day of rest. This changes more towards the end, having
longer runs and more days off etc.

What doesn't sound right is the amount of days you are actually running.
We are looking at a total of 4 days per week running. Correct? I know
some of these programs offer x-training as an option. They'll say
something like easy run or x-train. Is that the case here? Part of
endurance training is not only the long run, but also consistancy and
total mileage. Unless you pack a lot of mileage into your long run and
your speed day (not advisable), then it's going to be hard to maximize
your results, IMO.

--
Phil M.

kricket said:

Thanks again..

Let's see... my ingredients:

I did have to take some time off after the first marathon. I had some
problems w/ shin splints and then IT band problems at the end. I have
been seeing a sports injury doctor on a bi-weekly basis since then. I
do regular exercises to help w/ my shins and I have been using a foam
roller to help work out the kinks w/ my IT band.

What about exercises / stretching for ITB, or are you just treating
symptoms? Did he do any type of evaluation to check for muscle
imbalances or weaknesses to head off future injuries?

Quoted message said:

It did take a while, but I have been running regularly (and healthy)
for at least a month.

Just the opinion of someone who had an assortment of issues when I first
started (until a PT found the cause and got me straightened out), but
one month of running healthy (while seeing a sports injury doctor
bi-weekly?) is miniscule, esp. if you're going to try to go from a 6.5
mi long run to 19 miles in 9 wks. You may be pain-free, but I'll bet the
tissues are only superficially "healed". They need to be strengthened
also. The 6.5 to 19 mi jump in 9 wks is just way out of line for even a
10% / wk increase. A general guideline is to increase long runs by no
more than 5-10% every 1-2 wks. Ditto for total weekly volume. If you're
injury prone and still seeing a doctor, I'd look more at the 5% every 2
wks. If you increase more, then consolidate at that distance for a
couple weeks.

(note: I haven't done a marathon and don't have one planned but have
some longer goals and am running about 15-25 mpw - and have had my share
of issues, most related to muscle imbalances, wrong shoes, etc. So I can
kinda relate.)

I have been running around 15 - 20 mpw. My

Quoted message said:

longest run has been about 6.5 miles. I have been trying to build up
my mileage a little more slowly then last time. I believe doing too
much too fast was part of my problem previously.

Just a thought, but have you considered a marathon next spring - or
later? This would give you a few months to get healthy, build a
reasonable base, then start a program. Maybe aim for a half this fall?
Learn more about training and enjoy the journey of running, rather than
trips to the doctors.

Quoted message said:

The program I found does have me running a 19 mile run in week 9, 21 in
week 10, 23 in week 12, and 24 in week 14, then taper for the next
three weeks. The part I'm questioning is during the week it has 'jog
for 30 minutes' listed for two of the days almost every week. That to
me just doesn't sound like its enough. It also has speed training one
day, cross training two days, and one long run and a day of rest. This
changes more towards the end, having longer runs and more days off etc.

I'd agree. I'd look for a program that follows the 5-10% rules I
mentioned above, has the long run somewhere near 50% or less of total
weekly mileage or near 1/3 of 14-day totals - assuming long runs every 2
wks. I'd focus on distance before I worried much about any speed other
than fartleks or hills. And I wouldn't do any of that, well, maybe for
2-3 more months. Although it may depend on what caused your original
problems.

FWIW, most programs I've looked at on the internet violate some of the
basic principles (and ignore significant hills). This is why I've tended
to make my own.

But pay more attention to someone who knows what they're talking about.

Quoted message said:

What do you think???

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

In article <[email hidden]>,

kricket said:

Thanks again..

Let's see... my ingredients:

I did have to take some time off after the first marathon. I had some
problems w/ shin splints and then IT band problems at the end. I have
been seeing a sports injury doctor on a bi-weekly basis since then. I
do regular exercises to help w/ my shins and I have been using a foam
roller to help work out the kinks w/ my IT band.

It did take a while, but I have been running regularly (and healthy)
for at least a month. I have been running around 15 - 20 mpw. My
longest run has been about 6.5 miles. I have been trying to build up
my mileage a little more slowly then last time. I believe doing too
much too fast was part of my problem previously.

Ok, so lessons learned and problems addressed with some fair success.
That's always a concern. But you continue:

Quoted message said:

The program I found does have me running a 19 mile run in week 9, 21 in
week 10, 23 in week 12, and 24 in week 14, then taper for the next
three weeks.

Ouch! Back to that 'too much too fast' concept. As Dot mentioned,
going to 19 miles from 6.5 in 9 weeks is a heck of a ramp up. 10% a
week is something of a fair 'do not exceed' rule. The 9 week ramp
you're looking at is 13% per week. That's a serious red flag. The
5% Dot mentioned is a more sustainable figure, and doubles your mileage
in 14 weeks. Conversely, for marathoning you want to start from
10 miles being your comfortable long run if you're aiming 4 months off.

Can we persuade you in to a good hard half marathon in 4 months and a full
marathon early next spring?

Quoted message said:

The part I'm questioning is during the week it has 'jog
for 30 minutes' listed for two of the days almost every week. That to
me just doesn't sound like its enough. It also has speed training one
day, cross training two days, and one long run and a day of rest. This
changes more towards the end, having longer runs and more days off etc.

A usual sort of ingredient set would be:
long run (check)
general aerobic capacity work ('second longest run'😉 (check minus -- check if a
cross training day is aerobic and over an hour)
speed work (check)
strength (normally strength running, but could be a check minus if one of
the cross training days is strength oriented. Only a minus, though,
because specificity does matter)
recovery (check -- the 30 minute runs and rest day)

It might be a little long on recovery, with the 3 days of little or
no exercise. Then again, for you to ramp from 6.5 to 19 in only 9 weeks,
you're probably going to need a lot of recovery.

Quoted message said:

What do you think???

Always remember, it's free advice, and the double your money back guarantee
won't buy many race entries or ice packs.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences