Man needs life; instead vandalizes bike trail

[[email protected]]

On Jan 6, 9:38 pm, [email protected] (Michael Baldwin) wrote:
> Still Robert asks
>
> >Terrorism....wow...that's a pretty heavy word for digging a hole in
> >the ground, don't you think.
>
> ..one word for digging a hole in the ground is excavate...booby
> trapping a public right of way is terrorism...
>
> ..hopefully you or nobody you care about, ever suffers a serious injury
> or death at the hands of one of these sociopaths you're so willing to
> defend as vandals...

I am not defending this criminal. I was the one who pointed out that
intent to injure large numbers of cyclists is not vandalism. It is a
violent act. There is undoubtedly a more serious charge than vandalism
that this guy could be charged with. Vandalism is spray painting a
shop window. However, I understand the reality of the situation is
someone like this will probably make some sort of deal with the DA and
plead to a lesser charge if nobody gets hurt. If you call this guy a
'terrorist,' who's next? Why do you trust your government that much to
give them that sort of power over you and everybody.

Robert

 

[Michael Baldwin]

Robert asks

>If you call this guy a 'terrorist,' who's next?

Well, here's the FBI's definition;

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or
property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population,
or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social
objectives. 

...and Robert continues

>Why do you trust your government that much to give
>them that sort of power over you and everybody.

...Robert, this may sound idealistic and naive but I believe that "we
the people", is a government founded in the faith and trust of my fellow
man...and I'm a Libertarian who also believes that the reward of freedom
is responsibility...the three pillars of our democracy are only as
strong as the people whom they serve...that's why I'm suggesting Mr.
Potholer should be charge by the DA with committing an act of
terrorism...(ref. FBI def.)

Robert, you're an accomplished debater and I Thank You for broadening my
horizons, take care and best regards always.

Sincerely - Mike Baldwin

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Michael Baldwin" wrote: (clip) that's why I'm suggesting Mr.
Potholer should be charge by the DA with committing an act of
terrorism...(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Words like "terrorism" and "genocide" had original meanings that stemmed
from horrible practices for which there were no adequate terms. Things like
suicide bombing and mass poisoning. If you start to apply the term to
things like disruption of trail use, you dilute the language, and lessen our
ability to communicate.

 

[Chalo]

Michael Baldwin wrote:
>
> Well, here's the FBI's definition;
>
> Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or
> property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population,
> or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social
> objectives.

So, since you are willing to take that definition at face value--

Would you call it terrorism for a vigilante to beat up a drug dealer,
for the purpose of sending a message to the other local drug dealers?
Because this definition you have provided does that. And I think it's
overreaching.

We already have terms and definitions like "assault", "reckless
endangerment", "attempted homicide", "criminal mischief", "arson",
etc. And these things are already punishable by law. We don't need
to call them "terrorism" which is an intrinsically difficult thing to
define legally-- and misapplied in such cases anyway.

Chalo

 

[Bill Sornson]

Chalo wrote:

> We already have terms and definitions like "assault", "reckless
> endangerment", "attempted homicide", "criminal mischief", "arson",
> etc. And these things are already punishable by law. We don't need
> to call them "terrorism" which is an intrinsically difficult thing to
> define legally-- and misapplied in such cases anyway.

Generally agree. Same goes for so-called "hate crimes". Way too "thought
police"-ish IMO.

Bill S.

 

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

ZBicyclist <[email protected]> wrote:
: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1120ap_odd_bike_trail_vandalism.html?source=mypi

: FULLERTON, Calif. -- Police said they arrested a man who acknowledged
: digging holes on a park bike trail as payback for nearly being run down by a
: cyclist.

: Warren John Wilson, 52, faces a single felony count of vandalism, police
: Sgt. Linda King said Friday.

: King said nearly 50 holes measuring about 1 foot by 2 feet have been found
: since June along a trail at Laguna Lake Park, and in some cases attempts had
: been made to hide them from cyclists. She said some riders went over their
: handlebars after hitting the holes, but none reported major injuries.

Hmmm, who would have thought... we did a map of the dirt trails at Busse
Woods a decade or more ago and marked what we thought were crossruts.. that
is ruts running across the trail, often covered by grass, that were wide
enough to swallow our front tire... we hit the turf many times there...

http://www.chicagopaddling.org/busse.gif

--
John Nelson
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[Michael Baldwin]

Chalo politely asks

>Would you call it terrorism for a vigilante to beat
>up a drug dealer, for the purpose of sending a
>message to the other local drug dealers?
Short answer no.

Now I'm asking you Chalo. If the vigilante booby trapped the
(suspected) drug dealer's car (to send a message) and injured innocent
people passing by, is the perp just a vigilante?

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

 

[Bill Sornson]

Michael Baldwin wrote:
> Chalo politely asks
>
>> Would you call it terrorism for a vigilante to beat
>> up a drug dealer, for the purpose of sending a
>> message to the other local drug dealers?
> Short answer no.
>
> Now I'm asking you Chalo. If the vigilante booby trapped the
> (suspected) drug dealer's car (to send a message) and injured innocent
> people passing by, is the perp just a vigilante?

Might the distinction between criminal acts and acts of terrorism be the
number and type of victims? Criminals generally target a few people,
selected because of what they have or do (real or imagined). Terrorists
generally want as many casualties as possible (10's, 50's, 100's +), the
more innocents among them the better.

Trench digger ain't a terrorist, he's a cowardly asswipe criminal guilty of
assault (intent to injure).

Bill "ain't good, none of it" S.

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Bill Sornson" wrote: Might the distinction between criminal acts and acts
of terrorism be the
> number and type of victims? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Think about the word itself, Sorni. Terrorists commit crimes that are
designed to create fear among the victim population They want to criple the
function of government, industry or society by making people afraid. This
works only if they strive to hurt large numbers, and it works especially
well if they hurt large numbers of defenseless people in public places.
It's not the dead people so much as the people who go on living in fear.
Hence, TERROR(ist).

A bank robber robs a bank. A terrorist robs people of their sense of
security and safety.

 

[dgk]

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:49:27 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Michael Baldwin" wrote: (clip) that's why I'm suggesting Mr.
>Potholer should be charge by the DA with committing an act of
>terrorism...(clip)
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Words like "terrorism" and "genocide" had original meanings that stemmed
>from horrible practices for which there were no adequate terms. Things like
>suicide bombing and mass poisoning. If you start to apply the term to
>things like disruption of trail use, you dilute the language, and lessen our
>ability to communicate.
>

About 20 years ago I asked my father about terrorism. He explained
that it is what people do when they don't have an army. Smart guy.

 

[ilaboo]

> Anyways, in Vancouver BC, anybody caught vandalising our
> sacred park lands has hell to pay, and is subject not
> only to criminal penalties, but also to public
> humiliation (via the news media) and much public censure.
> His offence is next thing to being caught running a
> cruel puppy farm, or starving & neglecting a stableful
> of ponies.
>

sorry to hear that--here in da Bronx the assault that the park department
does on the parks is outrageous--never mind the people also.... trust me if
you see what i see you would vote with your shotgun

fwiw

peter

 

[ilaboo]

> Mr. Wilson isn't a 'terrorist,' for Christ's sake, he's just another
> retarded sociopathic criminal.

he is but a refection of our society--I am not justifying what he has done
>
> Damn this country is going down the crapper in a big hurry.

not really, the country relects us

fwiw

pter