Making the most of winter SST

Tonight I was just thinking how much more mileage SST has been getting on these boards this winter as a result of that discussion (and others). Anyway, I'm planning to treat SST as a replacement for the "Base Training" period in most widely read training programs, with the difference being that SST is likely to actually *improve* your FTP. From here, you could probably take some tips from the "Build" and "Competition" period routines in those programs, where tempo riding continues and higher intensity intervals are added in increasing fashion.

AndROOb said:

... Current plan:
Monday: rest
Tuesday: 2hrs at 0.9IF
Wednesday: 1hr at 0.8IF
Thursday: 2hrs at 0.9IF
Friday: rest
Saturday: 1hr at 0.95IF*
Sunday: 3-3.5hrs at 0.8-0.85IF*
* Yes, I know the Saturday/Sunday routines should be the other way round, but I couldn't cope with it:eek: , so I changed it round in order to make it do-able:p ....

Sounds like a solid plan for base or should we call it neuvo-base to work SST in place of LSD? I think you've got the Sat/Sun order right, I've always agreed with Lemond's intensity before duration approach. From that standpoint I'd think about switching the intensities of Wed/Thurs to work down in IF throughout your blocks but if it's working for you and you're recovering on that schedule then more power to you.(pun intended).

daveryanwyoming said:

I think you've got the Sat/Sun order right, I've always agreed with Lemond's intensity before duration approach.

Interesting. I picked up LeMond's book again today and read that comment on the train in to work this morning. I took his statement to mean intensity before duration in the season planning (so called reverse periodization by some). Hadn't realized he was talking about your weekly structure. Interesting indeed.

I'm usually so stoked to get out and ride after the work week that Saturday needs to be my long ride. Maybe I'll switch that up from time to time and see how it works out.

AndROOb said:

OK, so it started back in the autumn(sorry, fall🙄 ) when I was looking for a route through winter and came accross a topic started by Frenchyge called 'SST to the PMC'?. In this thread I found a response from rmur17 with a plan that looked right up my street, so firstly rmur17, thanks for that. I have tried to follow the plan which, initially I found hard basically because I was not maintaining my FTP.
So 3 months on, and I am on top of the routine and feeling strong, but I want to make the most of what I've done, and continue if need be, with a plan to peak in mid June.

My sole interest is TT's, from distances between 10 and 50 miles.

What I would like help with is planning when to start making changes to my current routine, ie - when to introduce more L4 work, and how to bring it all to a peak in mid-June.

Current plan:
Monday: rest
Tuesday: 2hrs at 0.9IF
Wednesday: 1hr at 0.8IF
Thursday: 2hrs at 0.9IF
Friday: rest
Saturday: 1hr at 0.95IF*
Sunday: 3-3.5hrs at 0.8-0.85IF*
* Yes, I know the Saturday/Sunday routines should be the other way round, but I couldn't cope with it:eek: , so I changed it round in order to make it do-able:p .

rmur17, the reason I liked the look of this is because of what you stated about how much more improvement you achieved using this plan, any advice on where to go from here will be very much appreciated.

Hi there,
glad to hear the training is going well. Re swapping Sat/Sun, no issue at all - especially if your club rides are on Sunday for example. Ours are Saturday only - that's why I ended up with L4 on Sunday - not optimal but I found I could recover well enough over time.

Re the bigger picture, I'm really not qualified .... I know what my approach will be and my time frame is similar to yours but I'd hesitate to detail it here. Mostly fear of ridicule of course 🙂 but also as it's very much tied to specific ergometer work on the CT until mid-April (when we normally get outdoors here).

Have you considered a coach (RST for example)?

normZurawski said:

.... I took his statement to mean intensity before duration in the season planning (so called reverse periodization by some). Hadn't realized he was talking about your weekly structure. Interesting indeed. ....

Yeah, as you get further along reading about his weekly training plans you'll see he repeats this philosophy a lot. For instance while talking about the Weekly Schedule on page 207:

Quoted post said:

"One important thing to keep in mind is that the higher intensities of exercise must be done first before you start doing lower intensities and more endurance. In other words train for your sprints before your intervals and train your intervals before your endurance."

IMHO this works really well since the week starts with a rest day, then high to low intensity so each day gets a bit easier but longer. I also think it helps you recover for weekend races or hard rides since it's easier for me to recover from a long endurance ride than a hard interval workout.

rmur17 said:

Hi there,
glad to hear the training is going well. Re swapping Sat/Sun, no issue at all - especially if your club rides are on Sunday for example. Ours are Saturday only - that's why I ended up with L4 on Sunday - not optimal but I found I could recover well enough over time.

Re the bigger picture, I'm really not qualified .... I know what my approach will be and my time frame is similar to yours but I'd hesitate to detail it here. Mostly fear of ridicule of course 🙂 but also as it's very much tied to specific ergometer work on the CT until mid-April (when we normally get outdoors here).

Have you considered a coach (RST for example)?

I often consider getting a coach, and Ric is certainly one that I consider, but after getting thru winter using your approach, I was going to try and 'wing' it without one.
There have been some interesting posts on this forum, notably, TiMan's L4 block training sessions, plus I have an 8 week TT plan from Hunter Allen that I used last year, but I am keen to know how long to continue what I am doing currently, and how/when to phase in L4/5/6 work, in a way that I can maximise my potential.
I quite understand and respect your position with regard to detailing your approach on the forum, although it only becomes more intrigueing in its absense😉 .
Maybe I'll leave it that I'm interested in your approach, and that you can PM details to me if you're happy to do so.🙂

AndROOb said:

I often consider getting a coach, and Ric is certainly one that I consider, but after getting thru winter using your approach, I was going to try and 'wing' it without one.
There have been some interesting posts on this forum, notably, TiMan's L4 block training sessions, plus I have an 8 week TT plan from Hunter Allen that I used last year, but I am keen to know how long to continue what I am doing currently, and how/when to phase in L4/5/6 work, in a way that I can maximise my potential.
I quite understand and respect your position with regard to detailing your approach on the forum, although it only becomes more intrigueing in its absense😉 .
Maybe I'll leave it that I'm interested in your approach, and that you can PM details to me if you're happy to do so.🙂

I'd really want to know what type and when you might be racing before June as I assume TT's start over there in March? and are going full force in April/May. Weekly or bi-weekly racing would change things a lot.

In general, it seems from the writings of folks like Dr. Coggan, Arthur Lydiard that there's no absolute reason to ever <gasp> stop SST training. It took me a while to come around to that view I'll admit.

Now can you maximize performance ... even somewhat narrowly defined at TT/FTP power on SST alone? IMO/IME no you can't ... I think you can reach perhaps 95% of near-term potential but that last 5% requires that one up the intensity to and above race pace.

Perhaps you can fill in how you foresee incorporating weekly racing into your routine and we can suggest some possible schedules. Personally I think it's important to race if nothing else to hone your warmup, preparation, positioning, pacing and the like. They don't need to be treated as races if you wish just high intensity training sessions.

The flip-side is that I wouldn't recommend resting/tapering too much for such races or you could compromise your ultimate season and longer-term potential.

I guess that's why it's not easy being a coach! I'd probably ask way too many questions 🙂

rmur17 said:

I'd really want to know what type and when you might be racing before June as I assume TT's start over there in March? and are going full force in April/May. Weekly or bi-weekly racing would change things a lot.

OK, the UK TT calendar builds as you say, starting in March with essentially hilly(sporting) TT's, and there's a weekly saturday morning club 10 that continues until British summertime starts during April(the clocks are put forward by 1hr, allowing lighter evenings). In April and May there are plenty of open events at the weekends(mainly 10/25), plus there's the option of weekday evening 10's(tues/wed/thurs), with the occasional 25.

rmur17 said:

In general, it seems from the writings of folks like Dr. Coggan, Arthur Lydiard that there's no absolute reason to ever <gasp> stop SST training. It took me a while to come around to that view I'll admit.

There was a regular >3hr upperL2/4/3 ride I did as part of the Hunter Allen program last year, which always amounted to SST NP, and I remember the benefit from these sessions🙄 , but later forgot about the benefit after the plan was complete😕 .

rmur17 said:

Now can you maximize performance ... even somewhat narrowly defined at TT/FTP power on SST alone? IMO/IME no you can't ... I think you can reach perhaps 95% of near-term potential but that last 5% requires that one up the intensity to and above race pace.

Perhaps you can fill in how you foresee incorporating weekly racing into your routine and we can suggest some possible schedules. Personally I think it's important to race if nothing else to hone your warmup, preparation, positioning, pacing and the like. They don't need to be treated as races if you wish just high intensity training sessions.

The way I see this is to do 1 weekend event, with training around the event depending on the distance. For example, if it is a 10 on a saturday, I can add training on that day, and train on sunday. A 25 being more demanding, would leave me to train only the day before/after, and if before, a tune up. A 50 would need a bit more recovery, hence an easy ride if anything the following day.
Weekday evening 10's, in the past I have used the weather conditions to determine whether I use the event as a full-on 10 effort(no wind etc), or incorporate the event into a double 10, where I do threshold work before the event, then ride the 10 with a number on my back to finish the session.
There would still be the option to use weekdays for something different if required - ie some longer 2hr work or whatever.

rmur17 said:

The flip-side is that I wouldn't recommend resting/tapering too much for such races or you could compromise your ultimate season and longer-term potential.

I guess that's why it's not easy being a coach! I'd probably ask way too many questions 🙂

It may have been on this forum, but I recall reading that long term power is the first thing to deteriorate if left unchecked. I found this to be so after an easy 2-3 weeks last July when it was just too hot to race. Suffice to say that taper and rest need to be carefully dialled.

I think my greatest achievement this year would be to go under 2hrs for a 50, taking into consideration that my current PB is 2:08:04. My AP/NP for this was 223w/225w, and I am reckoning on raising this to >240w AP.
The 25 time, I want to get from ~60minutes to 56(long or short), and 10 from 22:52 down to 21(long or short).
I'm not sure how realistic these targets are, but I need something to aim for.
Let me know if you need more info.