LVM breaks hour record

"Tony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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from Eurosport.com Cycling 18:47 Dutchwoman Leontinen Zijlaard-van Moorsel beats women's world
hour record in Mexico with a ride of 46.397 kilometres

4 m more than Ercole Baldini in 1956...

Benjo Maso

Just don't expect to read about it in CycleSport or ProCycling. It will be covered in C+.

"Tony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

from Eurosport.com Cycling 18:47 Dutchwoman Leontinen Zijlaard-van Moorsel beats women's world
hour record in Mexico with a ride of 46.397 kilometres

benjo maso said:

Tony said:

Dutchwoman Leontinen Zijlaard-van Moorsel beats women's world hour record in Mexico with a ride
of 46.397 kilometres

4 m more than Ercole Baldini in 1956...

A nice perspective! But the corrected distance of 46.065 puts her right in between Coppi (1942,
45.871) and Anquetil (1956, 46.159).

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

From: Ewoud Dronkert [email hidden]

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4 m more than Ercole Baldini in 1956...

A nice perspective! But the corrected distance of 46.065 puts her right in between Coppi (1942,
45.871) and Anquetil (1956, 46.159).

That can't be right. TK says even the best women can only compete with

Cat3

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men. I think they faked the results. There's no way an elite female

athlete

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could've even come close. Must be one of those affirmative action thing

where

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they added 10% distance, yeah that's got to be it. Bill C

I heard that Tammy was giving her training tips. Seriously, ProCycling has it on their web site.
Lets hope they put the news in the magazine as well. Brava to LVM!

TritonRider said:

That can't be right. TK says even the best women can only compete with Cat3 men. I think they
faked the results. There's no way an elite female athlete could've even come close. Must be one
of those affirmative action thing where they added 10% distance, yeah that's got to be it. Bill C

Given a extensive wind-tunnel training & the track in Mexico City, Coppi would have been faster.

And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Dan Connelly [email hidden]

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And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

You really think so? Coming from you, that has some weight. I have a hard time believing that a
US Cat3 today is the equal of Coppi or Anquitiel.

Dumbass -

I agree.

Cat 3 is not a very high level (unless you ask warren or gwhite).

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Dan Connelly [email hidden]

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And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

You really think so? Coming from you, that has some weight. I have a

hard

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time believing that a US Cat3 today is the equal of Coppi or Anquitiel.

We've

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come a long way, the equipment is much better and lighter, the training

more

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efficient, but I still have a hard time with it.

In 1952 Coppi did the climb to Alpe d'Huez in 45'22". That means that Coppi - in spite of his much
heavier bicycle and a road which wasn't asphalted yet - would have finished in the stage to l'Alpe
d'Huez this year 23th, 6'20" after Iban Mayo. Is a UC Cat3 capable of doing that? I really doubt it.

Benjo Maso

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Dan Connelly [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

You really think so? Coming from you, that has some weight. I have a

hard

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time believing that a US Cat3 today is the equal of Coppi or Anquitiel.

We've

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come a long way, the equipment is much better and lighter, the training

more

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efficient, but I still have a hard time with it. Bill C

Dan doesn't troll very often, but when he does, it is usually something very subtle and dry - like
his comment above. (IOW, you've just been hooked.)

Andy Coggan

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Dan Connelly [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

You really think so? Coming from you, that has some weight. I have a

hard

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Quoted message said:

time believing that a US Cat3 today is the equal of Coppi or Anquitiel.

Dumbass -

I agree.

Cat 3 is not a very high level (unless you ask warren or gwhite).

Taking all of Dan's comments in to consideration, I assume that he is indicating that there must
be a Cat 3 somewhere that could accomplish this result after going through all of the preparation
that she did.

I still disagree.

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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In 1952 Coppi did the climb to Alpe d'Huez in 45'22". That means that Coppi - in spite of his much
heavier bicycle and a road which wasn't asphalted yet - would have finished in the stage to l'Alpe
d'Huez this year 23th, 6'20" after Iban Mayo. Is a UC Cat3 capable of doing that?

No.

There are probably only a few Cat 1s who could do that.

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Dan Connelly [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

And I'd take the top Sr3 time trialer in the nation against LVM any day.

Dan

You really think so? Coming from you, that has some weight. I have a

hard

Quoted message said:

time believing that a US Cat3 today is the equal of Coppi or Anquitiel.

We've

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come a long way, the equipment is much better and lighter, the training

more

Quoted message said:

efficient, but I still have a hard time with it. Bill C

Dan doesn't troll very often, but when he does, it is usually something

very

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subtle and dry - like his comment above. (IOW, you've just been hooked.)

Dumbass -

Perhaps, but read his other post.

Nick Burns said:

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Cat 3 is not a very high level (unless you ask warren or gwhite).

Taking all of Dan's comments in to consideration, I assume that he is indicating that there must
be a Cat 3 somewhere that could accomplish this result after going through all of the preparation
that she did.

I still disagree.

Right. The cat 3 needs access to the wind tunnel, and the Mexico track.

This is still a unfair comparison, as one is comparing the best in the world woman to the best in
the US Sr3. But I'd still take the bet.

In other words, announce a $1M prize for a rider who is currently a cat 3 to break the record within
1 month. I think it would be broken.

It's a time trial. There's a lot of guys out there who can time trial, but don't race enough
to upgrade.

WRT the comparison to Coppi -- as I noted, it was a different time, with different equipment,
without the altitude. I never said Coppi was no better than a cat 3. WRT his L'Alpe d'Huez time....
that is impressive, I admit. But do you think Moorsel could climb the Alpe in 45:22? We're talking
time trialing here.

Dan

"Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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WRT the comparison to Coppi -- as I noted, it was a different time, with different equipment,
without the altitude. I never said Coppi was no

better

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than a cat 3. WRT his L'Alpe d'Huez time.... that is impressive, I admit. But do you think Moorsel
could climb the Alpe in 45:22?

Dumbass -

When she was skinny? ya.

BTW, by definition Cat 3s suck. If they didn't, they'd move up. Same with Cat
2s. People not good enough to be Cat 1s.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Andy Coggan" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Dan doesn't troll very often, but when he does, it is usually something very subtle and dry -
like his comment above. (IOW, you've just been hooked.)

Andy Coggan

At least I rose to a well presented Adams on a 6x tippet.

Are you referring to something that is more art than sport or more sport than art?

-WG

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

🙂

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BTW, by definition Cat 3s suck. If they didn't, they'd move up. Same with Cat
2s. People not good enough to be Cat 1s.

Okay, so I don't have any data for LVV. I do have GJ, however, and she's clearly a world-class
women's time trialists. And I'm not comparing her to a time trial specialist, just a stage racer
who happens to go to the Tour of Gila. Yet the cat 3 gets within 13 seconds of GJ over 40
minutes.... I think this makes it pretty clear that top women are no better than top Sr 3's in a
given aspect of racing.

tourofthegila.comday1womens123.htmlOpen ↗

WOMEN 1,2,3 T.T. RESULTS PLACE TIME @ TIME BON-PEN # NAME SPONSER HOMETOWN
===================================================================================================================

1 0:40:00.68 @ 00:00 234 Jeanson, Genevieve Rona Esker Canada -- 2 0:41:27.29 @ 01:27 236
Jutras, Manon Saturn Cycling Tea Canada -- 3 0:41:31.19 @ 01:31 226 Goldstein, Leah Victory
Brewing-Am Israel --

MEN 3'S T.T. RESULTS PLACE TIME @ TIME BON-PEN # NAME SPONSER HOMETOWN
===================================================================================================================

1 0:40:13.59 @ 00:00 476 Reidys, Christian Ochsner Los Alamos, NM -- 2 0:40:36.87 @ 00:23 493
Stetina, Peter
5280/Subaru Boulder, CO -- 3 0:40:49.12 @ 00:36 430 Farrell, Dennis Red Rocks Velo Littleton, CO --

=========================================

Here's the SoCal ITT championships: Women's Open 1 Jeannie Longo (Vitall) 46.04 2 Julia Whiteside
(Minute Maid/Dasani/La Grange) 3.00 3 Christen King (unattached) 7.21

Men 60 - 64 1 Butch Richardson (SD Cyclo-Vets) 46.21 2 Dan Wulbert (Excel) 1.53 3 Edward Renger (SD
Cyclo-Vets) 9.31

Jeannie Longo, reigning French national champion, did about the same as the top rider in the 60-64
age group, and this is mostly Southern California/Nevada riders, not national class or international
class. There's no categories in time trials, so I don't have a breakdown on who was Sr3 in the men's
open category. 7 men there broke Longo's time.

Dan

"Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

🙂

Quoted message said:

BTW, by definition Cat 3s suck. If they didn't, they'd move up. Same with

Cat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2s. People not good enough to be Cat 1s.

Okay, so I don't have any data for LVV. I do have GJ, however, and she's clearly a world-class
women's time trialists. And I'm not comparing her to a time trial specialist, just a stage racer
who happens to go to the Tour of Gila. Yet the cat 3 gets within 13 seconds of GJ over 40

minutes....

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I think this makes it pretty clear that top women are no better than top Sr

3's

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in a given aspect of racing.

Dumbass -

We're talking about going uphill. Women are better at that (relatively) than flat tt'ing because of
their light weight.

cyclingnews.comroadOpen ↗

Mount Washington Hillclimb - NE New Hampshire, USA, August 24, 2002

Results, 12.3km (Number in brackets indicates overall position) Women 20-34

1 Genevieve Jeanson (Can) Rona 54.02 (3) 2 Lyne Bessette (Can) 1.04.31 (19) 3 Susan Duff
1.18.00 (105)

<snip>

Men 20-34

1 Thomas Danielson (USA) Mercury 49.24 (1) 2 Tim Johnson (USA) Saturn 53.56 (2) 3 Carl Swenson (USA)
RLX Polo Sport 54.45 (4)

<snip

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Dan doesn't troll very often, but when he does, it is usually something very subtle and dry -
like his comment above. (IOW, you've just been hooked.)

Dumbass -

Perhaps, but read his other post.

Dumbass,

Dan is trying to troll out how CdA scales with height and mass. He wants someone to point out that
W/kg is different than watts-to-aero drag, and that the difference in sizes between men and women
means that hillclimb events will have a different pattern of differences between men and women than
TT events. It's a troll because he already knows the answer.

Next, Dan is going to claim that Armstrong is too short to break Boardman's hour record.

Back around 1980, our club promoted a race at which the 7 Eleven team raced. Both Davis Phinney and
Connie Carpenter did the same Cat 1/23 event (there were only Cat 1-4 then). Carpenter finished in
the main field with most of the Cat 2s and 3s. Perhaps she didn't want to embarrass her true love.

I think it is useless to compare climbing and the hour. Climbing has so many more variables than an
hour of power output on a track. So lets collect some money from all the rbr denizens and when we
hit $1 million, we'll see who takes up the challenge. :-)

"Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

🙂

Quoted message said:

BTW, by definition Cat 3s suck. If they didn't, they'd move up. Same

with Cat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2s. People not good enough to be Cat 1s.

Okay, so I don't have any data for LVV. I do have GJ, however, and she's clearly a world-class
women's time trialists. And I'm not comparing her to a time trial specialist, just a stage racer
who happens to go to the Tour of Gila. Yet the cat 3 gets within 13 seconds of GJ over 40

minutes....

Quoted message said:

I think this makes it pretty clear that top women are no better than top

Sr 3's

Quoted message said:

in a given aspect of racing.

tourofthegila.comday1womens123.htmlOpen ↗

WOMEN 1,2,3 T.T. RESULTS PLACE TIME @ TIME BON-PEN # NAME

SPONSER

Quoted message said:

HOMETOWN

============================================================================
=======================================

Quoted message said:

1 0:40:00.68 @ 00:00 234 Jeanson, Genevieve Rona

Esker

Quoted message said:

Canada -- 2 0:41:27.29 @ 01:27 236 Jutras, Manon

Saturn

Quoted message said:

Cycling Tea Canada -- 3 0:41:31.19 @ 01:31 226 Goldstein, Leah

Victory

Quoted message said:

Brewing-Am Israel --

MEN 3'S T.T. RESULTS PLACE TIME @ TIME BON-PEN # NAME

SPONSER

Quoted message said:

HOMETOWN

============================================================================
=======================================

Quoted message said:

1 0:40:13.59 @ 00:00 476 Reidys, Christian

Ochsner

Quoted message said:

Los Alamos, NM -- 2 0:40:36.87 @ 00:23 493 Stetina, Peter
5280/Subaru Boulder, CO -- 3 0:40:49.12 @ 00:36 430 Farrell, Dennis Red

Rocks

Quoted message said:

Velo Littleton, CO --

=========================================

Here's the SoCal ITT championships: Women's Open 1 Jeannie Longo (Vitall) 46.04 2 Julia Whiteside
(Minute Maid/Dasani/La Grange) 3.00 3 Christen King (unattached) 7.21

Men 60 - 64 1 Butch Richardson (SD Cyclo-Vets) 46.21 2 Dan Wulbert (Excel) 1.53 3 Edward Renger
(SD Cyclo-Vets) 9.31

Jeannie Longo, reigning French national champion, did about the same as the top rider in the 60-64
age group, and this is mostly Southern California/Nevada riders, not national class or
international class. There's no categories in time trials, so I don't have a breakdown on who was
Sr3 in the men's open category. 7 men there broke Longo's time.

Dan

Robert Chung said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Dan doesn't troll very often, but when he does, it is usually something very subtle and dry -
like his comment above. (IOW, you've just been hooked.)

Dumbass -

Perhaps, but read his other post.

Dumbass,

Dan is trying to troll out how CdA scales with height and mass. He wants someone to point out that
W/kg is different than watts-to-aero drag, and that the difference in sizes between men and women
means that hillclimb events will have a different pattern of differences between men and women
than TT events. It's a troll because he already knows the answer.

Next, Dan is going to claim that Armstrong is too short to break Boardman's hour record.

I still don't buy that Cd ~ mass argument 🙂.

Dan