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Looking for training advice

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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12 March 2005
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16 March 2005
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  1. "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Steve Freides <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >
    > I believe that weight lifting while losing weight is important in
    > maintaining muscle mass because you are, in effect, telling your
    > body that you still need the muscle you've got. The advice the OP
    > received
    > about avoiding doing "too much cardio" sounds correct to me. I do
    > precious little of it now.

    I thought you were into cycling? Maybe I have you confused with
    someone
    else.

    I love cycling (and running), but my body likes weight lifting much
    better. Last summer, my riding consisted of lots of short jaunts
    around town with the occasional 20-miler thrown in every couple of
    weeks and nothing more than that. It will probably be the same this
    summer as well.

    FWIW, I've found my strength/endurance work with kettlebells provides
    a lot of carry-over to the bike and running for relatively short
    distances, e.g., things like a 20 mile bike ride which is a short
    jaunt for anyone who rides a lot. For longer distances, I need to
    put in the mileage on the bike, but for what I do lately, a regular
    diet of kettlebell swings and snatches keeps me ready to ride (or,
    for that matter, run and swim) without much in the way of regular
    sport-specific training - for example, my resting pulse remains in
    the low 40's and I do no regular cycling, no regular running, and my
    swimming consists of 400-600 yards once a week. I might get out and
    run a mile or two once every week or two but it's nothing more than
    that, maybe 10 minutes on a bicycle wind trainer every couple of
    weeks as well.

    To get back to the original point, I'm working on increasing my limit
    strength - kettlebell strength/endurance work does not get in the way
    of my strength gains but more traditional cardio did and would again
    if I did a lot of it, I'm sure. And the kettlebell work provides
    excellent grip training that has had a real carryover to my deadlift,
    and keeps my shoulders healthy (repetitive full ROM in a few
    directions) and my hamstrings flexible (the lack of which is a
    chronic problem for many runners and cyclists). For most people, if
    a competition at an endurance sport isn't their goal but lower body
    fat and improved strength and possibly additional muscle is, focusing
    on resistance training and doing regular cardio but not "too much" is
    a good thing. My personal experience has been that, the older I get,
    the more important strength training is to keep me in the kind of
    good health I want to be in. In my 20's, 30's, and even most of my
    40's, running and biking were enough.

    I'm certainly in sync with you on resistance training, but I would
    have
    thought that the downsides of enjoyable forms of endurnace work (ie,
    cycling, running, and swimming) could be counteracted by simply eating
    more
    food. In other words, keep at the resistance work and do the
    enjoyable
    cardio forms of exercise, but eat to offset them causing muscle loss.

    Is there some reason this isn't possible? Perhaps you don't like to
    eat?
    20-miles on a bike ride isn't quite enough for me. But, like you, I
    do have
    to put more effort in to make it easier, so maybe that's your issue:
    time
    to train up.

    I will leave the reasons _why_ a lot of cardio interferes with gains in
    limit strength to those who know more than me. I can ride for hours and
    hours and deadlift maybe just under 2x bodyweight without much
    difficulty, but getting much above that doesn't work if I'm doing a lot
    of cardio. Like I said, hopefully Elzi, Keith, or someone else will
    chime in here.

    As to giving up what you enjoy, I'm not doing that. I enjoy all these
    things, including riding the bike and lifting heavy weights. I'm riding
    as much as I want to, and I'm enjoying making progress at weights. One
    of the nice things about weight training is that I can do it at home and
    in a relatively short period of time - I've got school-aged kids and am
    busy managing several simultaneous careers (if you can call them that) -
    the days of my having hours to ride are likely gone until the kids are,
    knock on wood, grown and out of here. The kettlebell cardio is very
    time efficient and it's fun and challenging besides, so that's what I do
    for the most part.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  2. "Isaac Zammond" <akzeo@20/20.com> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Two years ago I needed to lose ten pounds of fat and gain more muscle,
    and I began a weight training and cardio workout routine. Contrary to
    what many people think, I had no trouble shedding the fat and adding the
    muscle mass. As long as I stayed consistent, my body could easily tell
    the difference between the two--this in spite of the fact that I was 68
    at the time I began.

    The standard exception to the rule is that you can do this for a while when
    you're just starting. Most people find that they can't keep it up.

    Hugh

    --
    Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

  3. Quoted message said:

    Hello All. I am looking for some training advice. I have three goals I
    wish to accomplish this year. They are:

    1. Lose about 20 pounds.

    Eat 200 calories per day less than you expend. On average.

    Quoted message said:

    2. Improve my appearance by gaining some muscle definition.

    #1 will do that.

    Quoted message said:

    3. Run my very first 9 mile race (Boilermaker in July in Utica, NY).

    Run lots. It will help with #1 and #2. Don't forget to eat enough.

    --Blair
    "I can't believe they give out
    credentials for this stuff."

  4. Isaac Zammond akzeo@20/20.com said:

    Stephen, you're going to get contradicting responses to that question.

    Although you did not address me directly, I can say from anecdotal
    experience that when I go for short periods of days without adequate
    food--whether fasting, dieting or due to illness--my muscle mass does not
    suffer. It may just be my personal physiological makeup, but my body
    cannibalizes the fat stores to keep its vital signs righted.

    It's not just you. It takes time for your body to go into
    starvation mode normally. It takes less time to start
    catabolizing muscle when you're already hypertrophic (it
    wants to shed it all the time when you're bulked way up).

    Quoted message said:

    It is the same phenomenon when I burn lots of energy in high-cardio routines
    for the purpose of *fat loss*. In my <personal> case, the fat comes off,
    and the muscle mass does not diminish.

    How are you measuring it?

    Quoted message said:

    Others may have different experiences and/or have been taught differently
    depending on the academic source of their knowledge.

    I have graphs. My LBM went up, and then it went down,
    while my weight loss was fairly constant at about a pound
    a week.

    --Blair
    "ymmv"

  5. Steve Freides said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Steve Freides <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I believe that weight lifting while losing weight is important in
    >> maintaining muscle mass because you are, in effect, telling your
    >> body that you still need the muscle you've got. The advice the OP
    >> received
    >> about avoiding doing "too much cardio" sounds correct to me. I do
    >> precious little of it now.
    >
    > I thought you were into cycling? Maybe I have you confused with
    > someone
    > else.

    I love cycling (and running), but my body likes weight lifting much
    better. Last summer, my riding consisted of lots of short jaunts
    around town with the occasional 20-miler thrown in every couple of
    weeks and nothing more than that. It will probably be the same
    this summer as well.

    FWIW, I've found my strength/endurance work with kettlebells
    provides a lot of carry-over to the bike and running for relatively
    short distances, e.g., things like a 20 mile bike ride which is a
    short jaunt for anyone who rides a lot. For longer distances, I
    need to put in the mileage on the bike, but for what I do lately, a
    regular diet of kettlebell swings and snatches keeps me ready to
    ride (or, for that matter, run and swim) without much in the way of
    regular sport-specific training - for example, my resting pulse
    remains in the low 40's and I do no regular cycling, no regular
    running, and my swimming consists of 400-600 yards once a week. I
    might get out and run a mile or two once every week or two but it's
    nothing more than that, maybe 10 minutes on a bicycle wind trainer
    every couple of weeks as well.

    To get back to the original point, I'm working on increasing my
    limit strength - kettlebell strength/endurance work does not get in
    the way of my strength gains but more traditional cardio did and
    would again if I did a lot of it, I'm sure. And the kettlebell
    work provides excellent grip training that has had a real carryover
    to my deadlift, and keeps my shoulders healthy (repetitive full ROM
    in a few directions) and my hamstrings flexible (the lack of which
    is a chronic problem for many runners and cyclists). For most
    people, if a competition at an endurance sport isn't their goal but
    lower body fat and improved strength and possibly additional muscle
    is, focusing on resistance training and doing regular cardio but
    not "too much" is a good thing. My personal experience has been
    that, the older I get, the more important strength training is to
    keep me in the kind of good health I want to be in. In my 20's,
    30's, and even most of my 40's, running and biking were enough.

    I'm certainly in sync with you on resistance training, but I would
    have
    thought that the downsides of enjoyable forms of endurnace work (ie,
    cycling, running, and swimming) could be counteracted by simply
    eating more
    food. In other words, keep at the resistance work and do the
    enjoyable
    cardio forms of exercise, but eat to offset them causing muscle loss.

    Is there some reason this isn't possible? Perhaps you don't like to
    eat?
    20-miles on a bike ride isn't quite enough for me. But, like you, I
    do have
    to put more effort in to make it easier, so maybe that's your issue:
    time
    to train up.

    I will leave the reasons _why_ a lot of cardio interferes with gains
    in limit strength to those who know more than me. I can ride for
    hours and hours and deadlift maybe just under 2x bodyweight without
    much difficulty, but getting much above that doesn't work if I'm
    doing a lot of cardio. Like I said, hopefully Elzi, Keith, or
    someone else will chime in here.

    Training up different muscle fibers?

    Quoted message said:


    As to giving up what you enjoy, I'm not doing that. I enjoy all these
    things, including riding the bike and lifting heavy weights. I'm
    riding as much as I want to, and I'm enjoying making progress at
    weights. One of the nice things about weight training is that I can
    do it at home and in a relatively short period of time - I've got
    school-aged kids and am busy managing several simultaneous careers
    (if you can call them that) - the days of my having hours to ride are
    likely gone until the kids are, knock on wood, grown and out of here.
    The kettlebell cardio is very time efficient and it's fun and
    challenging besides, so that's what I do for the most part.

    Okay. I can understand that. Thanks for the comments.

  6. Start running, today. Take it easy at first, walk if you need to do so.

    Start lifting weights if you so desire. Get a knowledgeable person to show
    you proper technique for safety reasons.

    Personally, I would not suggest making big changes to your diet. Maybe cut
    back on desserts or other sweets for now. There is some evidence and
    rationale for eating small meals throughout the day as long as you are not
    taking in more energy that you were before. Eat 5 meals of 400 kcals each
    or 3 meals of 667 kcals each and the former might be better (might be).

    I certainly think you can run a 9 miler in July; it might not be fast but
    you should be able to finish it feeling okay.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello All. I am looking for some training advice. I have three goals I
    wish to accomplish this year. They are:

    1. Lose about 20 pounds.
    2. Improve my appearance by gaining some muscle definition.
    3. Run my very first 9 mile race (Boilermaker in July in Utica, NY).

    I am a 35 year old male, 6.0 feet tall, about 203 pounds. My body fat
    is about 25.5. I have done extensive research on dieting. After looking
    at all the fad diets out there, I feel the Abs Diet from Men's Health
    magazine is the best. I've tried most of these diets and they all kind
    of work in the short term. However, the Abs diet is more geared towards
    someone who plans on doing weight training, and it seems like a better
    plan for the long term. My long term goals are to get down to 180
    pounds, and to generally live a healthier lifestyle. I would also love
    to run a full marathon one day. Most of the fad diets out there,
    (atkins, south beach, etc.), do not give me the energy I need to be
    able to lift weights and run. The Abs diet does. However, the one big
    problem I find with the Abs Diet is that it kind of discourages you
    from doing "too much" aerobic training. They claim by doing too much
    aerobic training, you are burning away a lot of the muscle you are
    trying to build. This is a problem because i am going to be doing a lot
    of aerobic training (treadmill/running) to prepare for the race in
    July.

    I guess my dilema is, I want to be able to run that race, but I also
    really want to improve my appearance by losing weight and adding
    muscle. I am basically looking for ANY advice anyone might have, to
    reach my goals. How much running/training do I need to do to be ready
    for a 9 mile run in July? Any diet suggestions? Small healthy meals
    throughout the day? How many calories should I consume a day? Will
    lifting weights be useless if i'm doing a lot of running? Are my goals
    even obtainable in this time frame (3-4 months)?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

    Doug

  7. "Devon Wellhung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    1. Lose about 20 pounds.

    Lipposuction.

    2. Improve my appearance by gaining some muscle definition.

    Plastic surgery.

    3. Run my very first 9 mile race (Boilermaker in July in Utica, NY).

    Drive your car, faster, easier, cheaper.


    Cheaper? Have you checked gas prices lately?

  8. Besides, we all know it's our pal Roger.

  9. Besides, we all know it's our pal Roger.

  10. It's good to see someone conversant in biochemistry posting in this
    newsgroup. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though if someone
    is on a hypocaloric though very high-protein diet, the high
    concentration of amino acids used in the synthesis of muscle protein
    could counteract the catabolic effect of the hypocaloric diet. I have
    been taking in 160-190 g protein a day (about half from whey protein),
    while keeping my caloric intake below 2000, my lean body mass is
    around 160 at 18% b.f., yet I have been able to make gains in lifting
    while cutting fat.

    JMW said:
    Stephen Mulholland said:


    Filthy Sanchez said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    why would your
    body be silly enough to burn muscle when it has food and fat to live off?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

    Does the body not "live off" muscle in preference to fat for quite a while,
    if there's no food about? Very simplisticly put, but you get my drift, I'm
    sure.

    I'll make a little less simplistic. There is constant protein
    turnover in muscle. If the protein breakdown exceeds the protein
    synthesis, you are losing muscle protein. On a hypocaloric diet, it
    is probable, though not absolutely certain, that protein breakdown
    will exceed protein synthesis, and the amino acids from the breakdown
    will be deaminated for use in energy metabolism.

    Different energy sources are constantly being used by your body.
    Which source predominates at any given moment is affected by your
    metabolic state.

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