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UK and Europe
Published
11 February 2008
Last activity
25 February 2008
Original author
Nuxx Bar
Posts
76
Discussion status
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  1. To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    I anticipate this thread being very revealing, and exposing the
    motorist-haters for what they really are. It is impossible to
    overstress just how important this is. It is vital that the lies stop
    once and for all. People are DYING because of the influence of
    dogmatists like these on policy.

    Thanks so much for your help. It means a lot, and I'm really excited
    about what we can achieve. Together we will make saving lives the top
    priority of road safety policy (at least those of us who actually want
    to, i.e. not Jim Harm-vest by his own explicit admission. Terrible
    isn't it? No wonder he uses X-No-Archive. But fear not, he has been
    quoted in an archived post, so there will be a permanent record of
    just what he said.)

    Bobby

  2. Nuxx Bar said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it. And I don't regard
    speed cameras as "anti motorist". I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    motorist" either. Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  3. Peter Clinch said:
    Nuxx Bar said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist).  If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it.  And I don't regard
    speed cameras as "anti motorist".  I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    motorist" either.  Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Most drivers support measures nuxx regards as "anti-motorist":

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1688711.stm

    More than 75% of drivers still support the use of speed cameras

  4. spindrift said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Nuxx Bar said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist).  If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    Quoted message said:

    I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it.  And I don't regard
    speed cameras as "anti motorist".  I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    motorist" either.  Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Quoted message said:

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Most  drivers support measures nuxx regards as "anti-motorist":

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1688711.stm

    More than 75% of drivers still support the use of speed cameras- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Just answer the question [censored] - list the anti-motoring measures
    you oppose

  5. spindrift said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Nuxx Bar said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist).  If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    Quoted message said:

    I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it.  And I don't regard
    speed cameras as "anti motorist".  I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    motorist" either.  Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Quoted message said:

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Most  drivers support measures nuxx regards as "anti-motorist":

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1688711.stm

    More than 75% of drivers still support the use of speed cameras- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    A six year old quote regarding a failed policy, very impressive

  6. Sir Jeremy said:
    spindrift said:

    On 11 Feb, 13:52, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nuxx Bar wrote:
    > To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    > love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    > measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist).  If
    > you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    > please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    > there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    > discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    > sulkily silent.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it.  And I don't regard
    speed cameras as "anti motorist".  I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    motorist" either.  Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics ITOfficer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Quoted message said:

    Most  drivers support measures nuxx regards as "anti-motorist":

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1688711.stm

    Quoted message said:

    More than 75% of drivers still support the use of speed cameras- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    Just answer the question [censored] - list the anti-motoring measures
    you oppose- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    I don't know what "anti-motorist"easures are and nuxxy disappeared
    when I asked him.

    If you mean this:

    http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/flvplayer.swf?file=http://media.biertijd.com/movies/200610/onderen.flv&autostart=true&fs=true

    Then I think it's absolutely hilarious!

    LOL!!!

  7. On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:46:53 -0800 (PST), Nuxx Bar
    <[email hidden]> said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    sulkily silent.

    Nice troll.

    It's already revealing, in that you have chosen to pretend (as so
    many do) that any link between speed and fatality is "discredited".
    Paul Smith's hilarious statistical sophistry does not disprove
    anything, and never did. The simple fact is (and yes, it is both
    simple and fact) that the faster you go in a given situation, the
    more chance there is of your crashing and the more danger that crash
    poses to yourself and others.

    Some (for which read Smith) have chosen to misinterpret data which
    reveals, predictably, that cars which have slowed down for a
    manoeuvre are at more risk than those which are not engaging in that
    manoeuvre at that place, as somehow proving that driving slower is
    more dangerous. Obviously every crash is unique and every data
    point subtly different, but the best figures we have from TRL, based
    on the largest data set, show that on a given class of road both
    incidence and severity of crashes increases with speed. But I'm
    sure this has been said and discounted before, as failing the
    cultural filter which basically prevents us from constantly
    challenging our own world-view.

    But do tell us, which peer-reviewed safety journals have carried
    SafeSpeed's peerless wisdom, and what was the reaction of the
    professional community? Maybe this has changed in the couple of
    years.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  8. In article <ad0d8387-a473-4423-bdb7-
    [email hidden]>, Nuxx Bar
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
    you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK,

    Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
    address them?

  9. Rob Morley said:

    Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
    address them?

    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  10. spindrift said:
    Sir Jeremy said:

    On 11 Feb, 14:05, spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On 11 Feb, 13:52, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Nuxx Bar wrote:
    > > To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
    > > love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
    > > measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist).  If
    > > you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
    > > please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
    > > there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
    > > discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
    > > sulkily silent.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I am a motorist, and I don't hate myself for it.  And I don't regard
    > speed cameras as "anti motorist".  I don't regard speed limits as "anti
    > motorist" either.  Any extent to which the UK is "anti motorist" is
    > *hugely* overcompensated for by the degree to which the place is overtly
    > pro-motorist, including amongst policy makers and implementers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Pete.
    > --
    > Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
    > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    > Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    > net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Most  drivers support measures nuxx regards as "anti-motorist":

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1688711.stm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    More than 75% of drivers still support the use of speed cameras- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    Just answer the question [censored] - list the anti-motoring measures
    you oppose- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    I don't know what "anti-motorist"easures are and nuxxy disappeared
    when I asked him.

    If you mean this:

    http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/flvplayer.swf?file=http://media.b...

    Then I think it's absolutely hilarious!

    LOL!!!- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    I like this one

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovx-EuCM-dA&feature=related

  11. Peter Clinch said:
    Rob Morley said:

    Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
    address them?

    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!

    And people say that I'm a troll.

  12. Nuxx Bar said:
    Quoted message said:

    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!

    And people say that I'm a troll.

    I think people assumed you meant anti-motorist measures that were
    actually in force, but of course there aren't any. If you mean all
    possible anti-motorist measures then I am happy to go on record and
    say that I am utterly opposed to arbitrary machine gunning of
    motorists. Any more?

    --
    Dave...

  13. dkahn400 said:
    Nuxx Bar said:
    Quoted message said:

    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to!  [censored]!

    Quoted message said:

    And people say that I'm a troll.

    I think people assumed you meant anti-motorist measures that were
    actually in force, but of course there aren't any. If you mean all
    possible anti-motorist measures then I am happy to go on record and
    say that I am utterly opposed to arbitrary machine gunning of
    motorists. Any more?

    --
    Dave...

    Tell us what's bothering you nuxxy, we're listening, we care.

    I to don't think we should hoy bricks at speeding drivers.

    Do we have to list every possible assault on motorists or will tell us
    what you mean?

    Nuxxy, Smith was basically anti- vulnerable road user. Check out his
    cycling section of the forum- it's one consisting mainly of "jokes"
    about dead cyclists from that website's most prolific poster's after
    Smith himself. That's not a spoof, those pages, they are 90% the
    witterings of the same freaks who sent emails to Future Staff and
    issued threats against people who criticised Smith. It's a dark
    glimpse at a mad world. One chap in Oxfordshire I think began a
    campaign to slow traffic through his village. Safespeed posters
    tracked down his home address, phone number and name and published
    them on the forum. What I mean is, not only did Smith refuse to allow
    his deranged scribbles to be studied by anyone outside his nodding-dog
    forum, he actually encouraged and facilitated the harrassment of
    people who thought he was misguided. Much as you are doing now, saying
    someone is mentally ill just because you disagree with them is hardly
    the British way old boy.

  14. Nuxx Bar said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Rob Morley said:

    Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
    address them?

    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!

    And people say that I'm a troll.

    I wonder why.

    As a motorist and cyclist, I don't see speed cameras, speed limits,
    Vehicle Excise Duty, compulsory licensing and obligatory insurance as
    anti-motorist.

    Cheers,
    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  15. Ekul Namsob said:
    Nuxx Bar said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    Rob Morley wrote:
    > Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
    > address them?
    They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
    in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!


    And people say that I'm a troll.

    I wonder why.

    As a motorist and cyclist, I don't see speed cameras, speed limits,
    Vehicle Excise Duty, compulsory licensing and obligatory insurance as
    anti-motorist.

    I'm glad you said (some of) that.

    I don't see vehicle registration and marks, compulsory licensing and
    obligatory insurance as anti-cyclist, just pro-everyone else
    (particularly pedestrians)

  16. On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:05:53 GMT,
    [email hidden] (Ekul Namsob) said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    As a motorist and cyclist, I don't see speed cameras, speed limits,
    Vehicle Excise Duty, compulsory licensing and obligatory insurance as
    anti-motorist.

    No, these things are actually *pro* motorist. The restrictions in
    force exist so that society can allow people to drive despite the
    self-evident danger and damage driving causes. If we had no laws to
    limit these risks, it would have to be banned. Ditto the cost
    recovery mechanisms. It's only recently that motoring has come
    anywhere close to paying its way, and there is a lot of backlog to
    make up in order to ensure we, as a society, can still afford to
    extend this luxury to people.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  17. JNugent said:

    I don't see vehicle registration and marks, compulsory licensing and
    obligatory insurance as anti-cyclist, just pro-everyone else
    (particularly pedestrians)

    Then you're too blind to have thought about the ultimate cost of
    actively discouraging cycling for no particular benefit.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  18. Peter Clinch said:

    JNugent wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't see vehicle registration and marks, compulsory licensing and
    obligatory insurance as anti-cyclist, just pro-everyone else
    (particularly pedestrians)

    Quoted message said:

    Then you're too blind to have thought about the ultimate cost of
    actively discouraging cycling for no particular benefit.

    What a clever debating technique you don't have.

    Nice context-snipping too.

  19. JNugent said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    JNugent wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't see vehicle registration and marks, compulsory licensing and
    obligatory insurance as anti-cyclist, just pro-everyone else
    (particularly pedestrians)

    Quoted message said:

    Then you're too blind to have thought about the ultimate cost of
    actively discouraging cycling for no particular benefit.

    What a clever debating technique you don't have.

    I should drop down to ad-hominem attacks like you, should I?

    Quoted message said:

    Nice context-snipping too.

    Actually, no context was snipped at all for anyone reading down the
    morning's new posts like I did. I was just saving some space.

    Really is time to put the likes of you, Firth, Brimstone etc. in the
    Bozo Bin... Bye!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  20. On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:23:28 -0800 (PST), Sir Jeremy
    <[email hidden]> said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovx-EuCM-dA&feature=related

    Stupid American commentator woman doesn't even know that helmets are
    not available in Burberry and do not work when worn back to front.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

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