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In article <b9e776e3-e663-4854-b7c5-8b0c8c42f644
@d68g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Show some respect for the recently departed please

Why is he any more deserving of respect now than he was before he died?

Rob Morley said:

In article <b9e776e3-e663-4854-b7c5-8b0c8c42f644
@d68g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Sir Jeremy
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Show some respect for the recently departed please

Why is he any more deserving of respect now than he was before he died?

Smith's life work was to misrepresent and lie about proper, accredited
and peer-reviewed road safety researchers' findings.

Smith lied about Linda Mountain's research and claimed credit for the
work she did, Professor Mountain complained that Smith was misquoting
her work. You can check this for yourself by contacting the University
of Liverpool.

Smith also misrepresentes Jonksch's work and Jonksch demanded Smith
remove all references to him on his famous "12mph" page.

Smith was a fraud, a charlatan and a coward, he visited the Cycling
Plus pages and admitted he had written the perversion of justice
pages, then denied he wrote them, then claimed someone else must have
written them on his computer. He then fled the forum after refusing to
answer any more questions.

Smith rarely, if ever, ventured out of his nodding dog forum populated
by people pretending to be policemen.

Smith was asked a number of times on his site who the "independent
experts" were who, he claimed, had verified his work. Smith deleted
the questions and banned the posters.

Smith encouraged the harrassment and villification of anyone who dared
disagree with him, he would publish peoples' home addresses and phone
numbers on his forum so that the nastier elements of his coterie would
try to intimidate critics into silence. The man was terrified of
exposure.

I think that a site that encourages law-breaking by offering
loopholes, that is obsessed with speed cameras whilst dressed up in a
transparent cloth labelled 'Road Safety'; has some extraordinary
extrapolations from limited data, that practices self-referral on a
par with an Oozlum Bird gets all that it deserves.

The saddest thing about Paul Smith's 'work' is that that was it. SS =
Paul Smith's work. There is no-one else. It was just him. Take a look
at the Press Releases. There's been one since he died. About him
dying. There used to be more than one a day. That's about 40 PR
opportunities lost. Surely there is one more person in the 'campaign'
that can write a press release? Surely amongst the 20 or so prolific
posters that actually make up the hardcore of the forum there is one
person that knows the SS campaign, that can write a PR?

Actually, Paul's legacy is being [censored] up against the wall by his
acolytes. They should shut down almost all the sections of the Forum
and concentrate on getting his message out there in the media. They
should overcome the objections to the campaign that have been repeated
here and other places many times. I appreciate that it is easier to
slap stickers saying "Final warning" on perceived trolls than actually
do anything.

Smith:

Encouraged a load of drivers who are looking for justification to
speed and so unnecessarily drive more dangerously than if they
didn't.

Created a place for these people to go to to tell each other that
their dangerous behaviour is ok.

Escalated their aggression against other road users and the
authorities.

Pretended to run a legitimate campaign, which you don't have to go far
into at all to see the real agenda.

Ignored the road safety aspects that don't fit his agenda.

Tried to close down the C+ forum.

Go on -look at the safespeeding forum. It's funny.

try this one-

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/vi...844&highlight=

And look a t the safespeeding forum.

The single most prolific poster.

This person/genetically challenged family group accounts for over
6,000 posts of the SS forum. This is them admitting trolling the
Cycling Plus forum:

Quoate begins:

Kriss posted as NTC - my wife and she is a vet - honest. "tame" - er
yeah - er- right - er - um .....
I am Mike - and I was the Frenzied Feline and only registered as FF to
bail her out of trouble...
We did not post anything as this pair afte last January when we were
finally locked up in the dungeons here.
We did not know these guys waded in after us - did not think anyone
would to be honest....

Brandy - Yikes - where do I start?
We were not sure ourselves for some time - guy we suspected was
working at times some of these posts were registered onto the site.
Seems he roped in some of his chums So we had Swiss Andreas (lawyer)
and his pal also called Andreas (German originally from Dresden also a
lawyer and now working abroad again) and a UK lawyer chum called
Andrew. Honestly knew nothing for a while and of course they started
to compete with each other out smart-alec each other - made it worse
really. (Oh dear... you'll all go ballistic....mercy please)

LLS? Billy-Bob - Pal of yet another of the Swiss - English and an
accountant - lives in a very pretty Lancashire hill village, He really
is that tall by the way.
Sport Mad - Billy-Bob's cycling chum - Willi - Swiss and an
accountant. He nearly did come a cropper at a pinch point and got into
a tizz at a large roundabout on his bike.
Head Boy - Siegfried - eldest of the Swiss males. Lawyer - lives in
Berlin. Owns two properties over here where he lets out to holiday
makers - one in Horncliffe and one in Horndean . Some may recall that
Geography is not his strong point
So er - now you know. We have no idea who CC is - not one of this
bunch to my knowledge.

End quote.

This is snipped from a very long thread of rambling nonsense which was
written in an attempt to justify their electronic attacks on C+ staff
and their attempt to close down the C+ forum.

This person/genetically challenged family group accounts for over
6,000 posts of the SS forum. Rather than banning dissenters, the SS
management would do well to block loons from posting. A casually
interested dip into the SS forum would provide enough rambling smiley
infested posts to put most normal people off.

Your response nuxxy?

Third time of asking, do you support smith's tactic of threatening and
abusing anyone who dared expose him as a fraud?

Nuxx Bar said:

To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
sulkily silent.

Speaking as someone who drives 250 miles in the average week and only cycles
about 100, I'm not aware of any anti-motorist measures in the United
Kingdom. There are many pro-motorist measures, not least of which is that
motorists are frequently allowed to get away - literally - with murder.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund

Nuxx Bar said:

On Feb 11, 9:05 pm, [email hidden] (Ekul

Namsob) said:

Nuxx Bar said:

On Feb 11, 4:07 pm, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we
> > can address them?

Quoted message said:

> They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed
> and
> in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!

Quoted message said:

And people say that I'm a troll.

I wonder why.

Oh do shut up. You're the troll. You're the one who won't answer
questions. And when you are going to admit that all drivers speed?

Quoted message said:

As a motorist and cyclist, I don't see speed cameras, speed limits,
Vehicle Excise Duty, compulsory licensing and obligatory insurance as
anti-motorist.

Do you ever speed? Yes or no? I don't care whether it's
"unintentional" or "momentary" or "creeping over the limit" or any of
the other usual trollisms, because cameras don't care about that
either. Speeding is speeding, even when you (aka Mr Holier-Than-
Though) are doing it. Do you ever speed, yes or no? Answer the
question please, unless doing so would make you look stupid and
hypocritical of course, in which case just ignore it.

Yes, I speed occasionally, because I'm not as good a driver as I would like
to be. And as a consequence I've been fined three times in the past forty
years. I'm not complaining - I broke the law and deserved what I got.
What's anti-motorist about fining criminals?

Quoted message said:

And I don't have a problem with any of what you listed except for
speed cameras (although speed limits should be sensible, which they
increasingly are not).

No, they're way to high. Twenty's plenty in town, and thirty's enough on
rural B roads.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

JNugent said:

Ekul Namsob said:

Nuxx Bar said:

On Feb 11, 4:07 pm, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
>> Why don't you list what you think are anti-motorist measures so we can
>> address them?
> They won't let us drive wherever and whenever we like at any speed and
> in any manner we like in any vehicle we might want to! [censored]!
And people say that I'm a troll.

I wonder why.

As a motorist and cyclist, I don't see speed cameras, speed limits,
Vehicle Excise Duty, compulsory licensing and obligatory insurance as
anti-motorist.

I'm glad you said (some of) that.

I don't see vehicle registration and marks, compulsory licensing and
obligatory insurance as anti-cyclist, just pro-everyone else
(particularly pedestrians)

So how much do you think it would cost to insure and license cyclists, how
much of that would be administrative overhead, and who would benefit (and
in what way?)

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; part time troll.

In article said:

Nuxx Bar said:

To Spindrift and others who have a problem with Safe Speed and/or a
love affair with speed cameras: Please list here all anti-motorist
measures which you oppose (and which are not also anti-cyclist). If
you can't come up with any because you're anti-motorist yourself,
please confirm this by insulting me, making out (hilariously) that
there aren't any anti-motorist measures in the UK, repeating tired
discredited simplistic nonsense like "speed kills", or remaining
sulkily silent.

Speaking as someone who drives 250 miles in the average week and only cycles
about 100, I'm not aware of any anti-motorist measures in the United
Kingdom. There are many pro-motorist measures, not least of which is that
motorists are frequently allowed to get away - literally - with murder.

As a motorist my life would be much easier if significant numbers of the
other motorists on the road were removed. So lax enforcement is actually
an anti-motorist measure, so long as I'm not one of the motorists who
should be taken off the roads but isn't. Apart from that, god alone knows
what Nuxx Bar is on about. Following his example, I'll take any disagreement
or silence from him as (further) evidence that he's a raving loon.

you know? said:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:31:53 -0800 (PST), Sir Jeremy
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Show some respect for the recently departed please

Well, reading around this a bit, it seems that the ludicrous fawning
over Smith by his speedophile admirers while he was alive has been
replaced by something akin to canonisation now he's dead, but the
simple fact remains that just about everything he wrote was complete
bollocks from beginning to end. He worked back from the conclusions
every time, and that's why no reputable publication would take his
idiotic assertions to peer review.

Since we said all this to him while he was alive, to the point that
he withdrew from here to his own forums where he could ban anyone
who posted facts to rebut his drivel, we would be hypocritical in
the extreme if we failed to point out that drivel is what it always
was

I also find it rather amusing that you lot seem to believe that
Smith somehow invented regression to the mean - it's extensively
discussed in "Death on the streets: cars and the mythology of road
safety" which was published in 1993, and it was already well
established back then.

If you don't want to see people chipping bits off your plaster
saint, you'd better keep to the SS forums where they can continue to
expunge inconvenient facts that conflict with Smith's decidedly
[censored]-about-face world-view.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Perhaps I'll start attacking your late father and see how you like
that.

Sir Jeremy said:

On 14 Feb, 23:46, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you don't want to see people chipping bits off your plaster
saint, you'd better keep to the SS forums where they can continue to
expunge inconvenient facts that conflict with Smith's decidedly
[censored]-about-face world-view.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I'll start attacking your late father and see how you like
that.

It would depend on what grounds. If his late father oft spouted
nonsense and was widely criticised during his life for spouting nonsense
then criticising him for /having/ spouted nonsense in his life, however
upsetting it may be, might be justified.

If, OTOH, you were just attacking him to get back at his son for
pointing out that Smith was pushing dubious figures (as he was,
according to many, and I concur) then it just shows you to be a rather
sad individual.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Sir Jeremy said:

you know? said:

If you don't want to see people chipping bits off your plaster
saint, you'd better keep to the SS forums where they can continue to
expunge inconvenient facts that conflict with Smith's decidedly
[censored]-about-face world-view.

Perhaps I'll start attacking your late father and see how you like
that.

It would depend on what grounds.  If his late father oft spouted
nonsense and was widely criticised during his life for spouting nonsense
then criticising him for /having/ spouted nonsense in his life, however
upsetting it may be, might be justified.

If, OTOH, you were just attacking him to get back at his son for
pointing out that Smith was pushing dubious figures (as he was,
according to many, and I concur) then it just shows you to be a rather
sad individual.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden]    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On the grounds that only "rather sad individuals" make personal
attacks on people who can't defend themselves

"Sir Jeremy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the grounds that only "rather sad individuals" make personal
attacks on people who can't defend themselves

Hmm. I'm sure you can think of many examples which demonstrate the idiocy of
that statement.

Let's see - Robert Maxwell. He's dead now, so should I mention his robbing
of pension funds etc?

clive

Nuxx Bar said:

Are you a liar or just blind?

I have been known to tell the odd lie but I'm not doing so in this
case. And I confess to a degree of presbyopia which is normal for my
age'.

Quoted message said:

Are you seriously contending that there are *no* anti-motorist measures
whatsoever in the UK?

Yes, at least since 1896 when the 'Red Flag Act' was repealed.

Quoted message said:

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

To you or to a rational person?

Quoted message said:

Do you realise just how obvious it is that you're talking rubbish?

No, but I think you are.

--
Dave...

Nuxx Bar said:

I will also humour the lying
motorist-hating trolls by listing the plethora of anti-motorist
measures that we have today, even though they know perfectly well what
they are already. Once I've listed them once, at least they can no
longer pretend not to know what they are.

Has this list been posted yet? If so, my mail client has lost it. I
would appreciate someone reposting it.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"There is a wicked pretense that one has been informed. But no
such thing has truly occurred! A mere slogan, an empty litany.
No arguments are heard, no evidence is weighed. It isn't news at
all, only a source of amusement for idlers." (Gibson-Sterling,
The Difference Engine)

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:14:53 -0000,

Clive George said:

"Sir Jeremy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the grounds that only "rather sad individuals" make personal
attacks on people who can't defend themselves

Hmm. I'm sure you can think of many examples which demonstrate the idiocy of
that statement.

Let's see - Robert Maxwell. He's dead now, so should I mention his robbing
of pension funds etc?

Why stop there? Maybe we should only say nice things about that Mr
[censored]. Oops I think I may have just Godwinned this thread.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Don Whybrow said:

Nuxx Bar said:

I will also humour the lying
motorist-hating trolls by listing the plethora of anti-motorist
measures that we have today, even though they know perfectly well what
they are already. Once I've listed them once, at least they can no
longer pretend not to know what they are.

Has this list been posted yet? If so, my mail client has lost it. I
would appreciate someone reposting it.

It's not arrived here. Frankly, I've been on tenterhooks all day, eager
to learn. I really hope Master Bar won't disappoint me. It could ruin my
weekend.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

"Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:14:53 -0000,

Clive George said:

"Sir Jeremy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the grounds that only "rather sad individuals" make personal
attacks on people who can't defend themselves

Hmm. I'm sure you can think of many examples which demonstrate the idiocy
of
that statement.

Let's see - Robert Maxwell. He's dead now, so should I mention his
robbing
of pension funds etc?

Why stop there? Maybe we should only say nice things about that Mr
[censored]. Oops I think I may have just Godwinned this thread.

I was being careful :-)

cheers,
clive

x-no-archive:Andy Leighton said:

Oops I think I may have just Godwinned this thread.

Quoted message said:

Que?

"Ekul Namsob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don Whybrow said:

Nuxx Bar said:

I will also humour the lying
motorist-hating trolls by listing the plethora of anti-motorist
measures that we have today, even though they know perfectly well what
they are already. Once I've listed them once, at least they can no
longer pretend not to know what they are.

Has this list been posted yet? If so, my mail client has lost it. I
would appreciate someone reposting it.

It's not arrived here. Frankly, I've been on tenterhooks all day, eager
to learn. I really hope Master Bar won't disappoint me. It could ruin my
weekend.

I'm not sure which is more eagerly awaited here - the list promised in this
thread, or JNugent's promised answer to me in another.

cheers,
clive

Jim Harvest said:

x-no-archive:Andy Leighton said:

Oops I think I may have just Godwinned this thread.

Quoted message said:

Que?

en.wikipedia.orgGodwin's lawOpen ↗

(no relation)

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:52:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Jeremy
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I'll start attacking your late father and see how you like
that.

I'm not aware that he trolled Usenet, made a career out of lying, or
facilitated the harassment of those who disagreed with him. Do feel
free to provide any evidence you have of his doing so, though.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:36:08 -0000, Andy Leighton
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Oops I think I may have just Godwinned this thread.

Since I now have Mike Godwin's email address, perhaps I can check
that for you :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound