"lies" vs "errors"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

Quoted message said:

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any
such thing.

Your whole posting history is proof of how blinded you are
by your hatred of conventional medicine.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "Peter Moran"
[email hidden] Date: 5/16/2004 3:07 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id:

<40a7f415$0$20567$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.

au>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Many posters here claim that Jan tells "lies", and
google offers

hundreds

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if

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not thousands of references offered as proofs of her
deceptions and falsehoods. Well, folks, I'm here to
tell you that she is not nearly

the

Quoted message said:

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liar, cheat, deceiver that you think she is, and this
explanation

applies

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equally to many here - I use Jan as an example
because... because... well, she's just such a perfect
example.

To be a "lie", the liar must know at the moment of
utterance that the statement is false. However, history
has shown us that when a liar

repeats

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a

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falsehood enough times, it becomes indistinguishable
from truth - to

that

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liar. Eventually it becomes more of an error than a
lie, and is

honestly

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offered to inform rather than to deceive or mislead.
Though factually

wrong,

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and with its origins in deception, it evolves into a
passionate

statement

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of

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[truth as I know it!]. So what would you call that
statement? It's no

longer

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a lie... but an error, an honest mistake.

I don't wish to exalt the liars here by comparing them
to famous prevaricators of history, but history teaches
us that many of them

began

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with self-serving lies, then eventually perfected and
adopted their falsehoods as [truth as I know it!].
During that process, their

statements

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became sincere, their arguments took on the self-
righteous fervor of

the

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absolutely correct, their rebuttals were perfected....
and their constituencies voted for them. I suppose one
example will help make thi

s

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point. There was a moment somewhere between 1923 and
1945 when Corporal Adolf [censored] began believing his own
rhetoric, and from that time on he

was

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perhaps the most persuasive and convincing sociopath
alive.

So, based on the above, here's an interesting question:
what percentage

of

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intelligent and educated (naturopaths, homeopaths,
chiropractors, iridologists, yada yada) actually
*believes* the diagnostic and

therapeutic

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claptrap on which such quacks' incomes depend?

A most interesting question. I have often pondered it.
The problem is that it is not just quacks who can become
misled by by the crazy quilt

of

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influences that can determine perceived outcomes within
day-to-day

medical

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practice (spontaneous events, answers of politeness,
patient

subordination,

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true placebo effects, reversion to the mean, observer
biases etc ).

These are powerful enough to impress sincere and eminent
doctors. Three examples of this: glomectomy for asthma,
gastric freezing for duodenal ulcer and internal mammary
artery ligation for angina. These and many other
experimental mainstream procdures were claimed to have
80-90 per

cent

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success rates by enthusiatic pioneers, whereas subsequent
controlled

trials

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showed that sham procedures performed just as well. It
took no less

than

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eleven controlled trials using sham procedures to dispose
of all the

hype

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surrounding glomectomy. Chelation is I am sure a similar
case, where

the

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promoters are convinced they are seeing dramatic results,
largely because

of

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the erratic behaviour and placebo responsiveness of the
things they are treating. The ability to overlook or find
excuses for failures, as in

the

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recent Kadile chelation case, helps. .

So I am inclined to give most alt. practitioners the
benefit of the

doubt.

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"Therapeutic illusions" are prevalent and powerful. I am
sure you are right that other factors can be involved
such as habituation. A

tentative

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belief can become entrenched if you are motivated to
emphasise all supportive evidence and blind yourself
anything that opposes.

The real liars/frauds are probably more strongly
represented within MLM schemes and spammers. There are
some alt cancer therapists who I think

are

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quite deluded rather than liars.

Peter Moran

This is proof of how Peter judges, and thinks.what's more
most if no all

of the

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*gang* jumped in and lied for him.

msnbc.com809196.aspOpen ↗

Peter Moran wrote:

All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the
first caveman

said"I

Quoted message said:

wonder what this berry does?".

Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and
potentially lethal gene defects is a very legitimate and
logic alavenue of medical research. So

this is

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nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .

It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was
applied. It

would

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be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed
carefully by the researchers and the ethics committees to
which all clinical trials are submitted thesedays. We
cannot know how culpable the doctors are from

this

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rather emotive news item.

Peter Moran
==============================

Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the
Gelsinger's home

in

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Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the
experiment was safe.

Documents

. Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson
from other experiments.
. March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings
about the gene therapy experiment.

(SEE ANY COVER-UPS THERE, PETER??)

The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson's team
had never told him that anyone had ever raised questions
about safety

(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine
member, Peter

Moran.)

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AND PETER BOWDITCH!!

ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the
beginning. Federal investigators, pouring

through

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Penn's records, announced at the conference that they had
made a series of startling discoveries, raising questions
about whether the doctors had

covered

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up problems and broken basic test rules.

In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for
the experiment, several monkeys given viruses similar to
Jesse's got sick. And two of them died.

(SEE ANY COVER-UP THERE PETER??))

The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers
didn't get visibly

ill,

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if tests showed that any of them had a significant
reaction called "grade 3," the experiment was supposed
to be "halted" immediately. Records show there were
"grade 3" reactions in more than one patient. The first
time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with
the patient might

have

Quoted message said:

been the cause. The second time, they stopped, called and
got permission again,

citing

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another unusual condition. But when it happened a third
time, they didn't stop, didn't call. Then, a fourth time.
They didn't stop or call then either

(FOUR TIMES PETER!!!!!)

For their own safety, volunteers weren't supposed
to have a blood ammonia level higher than 50. But
people were coming in with higher levels

and

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without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70. When
Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits,
but records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just
days before the experiment, his reading was 114 - more
than double the original safety

limit.

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(That's way cool huh Peter???)

HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the
monkey deaths to the reactions in

other

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volunteers, even to Jesse's own ammonia levels, Why had
Dr. Wilson's team allowed the experiment to continue?

(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict
committee approved

Dr.

Quoted message said:

Wilson's arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university
itself owned a piece of his company and

stood to

Quoted message said:

profit, too.

(Hmmmmmmmmm).

In a statement, the university acknowledged that
some information "should have been shared with the
FDA sooner."

(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

There was no information given to Jesse or his family
about the monkey

deaths.

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There was no information given to Jesse or his family
about toxic results

in

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prior patients. There was no information that would allow
Jesse and his

family

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to make any kind of informed decision."

(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS

He told congress that other private companies in
the race for cures

had

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also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also
gotten adverse

reactions.

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But instead of sharing the information, government rules
allowed them to

stamp

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those reactions "confidential," classifying them as trade
secrets to protect their research investments. So, while
the government knew about them, other researchers like

Ds.

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Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never
allowed to see them.

(TRust the government!!!)

"I was outraged," says Paul. "I had a right to know. Jesse
had a right to know.

(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that
because Dr.

Wilson

Quoted message said:

filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations***

REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!

Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and
"repeatedly and deliberately violated regulations

(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate

violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

Quoted message said:

HOW DOES THAT GRAB YOU PETER BOWITCH?????

This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse
Gelsinger's death.

At

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the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

****is still on the faculty****

(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A
OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is
A OK.***

but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And,
in Congress, lawmakers are still debating legislation to
provide more protection for

medical

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volunteers.

******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the
doctors he and his

family

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thought they could trust.*********

====

Nuff said.

Jan

(That can be turned around and applied to you) Anth

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:orac-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

Quoted message said:

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any such
thing.

Your whole posting history is proof of how blinded you are
by your hatred of conventional medicine.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

(That can be turned around and applied to you) Anth

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:orac-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

Quoted message said:

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any such
thing.

Your whole posting history is proof of how blinded you are
by your hatred of conventional medicine.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/16/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

Quoted message said:

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any
such thing.

From: JDrew63929 ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: medical
profession View: Complete Thread (81 articles) Original
Format Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 2001-06-13
18:16:50 PST

<snip for brevity>

I believe that origanizated conventional medicine is is
evil based.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/16/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

Quoted message said:

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any
such thing.

From: JDrew63929 ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: medical
profession View: Complete Thread (81 articles) Original
Format Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 2001-06-13
18:16:50 PST

<snip for brevity>

I believe that origanizated conventional medicine is is
evil based.

"Vitamins are Chemicals" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: [email hidden]
(Jan) Date: 5/16/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
id: <[email hidden]>

>Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

>*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
>however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
>medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any such
thing.

Quoted message said:

From: JDrew63929 ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: medical
profession View: Complete Thread (81 articles) Original
Format Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 2001-06-
13 18:16:50 PST

<snip for brevity>

I believe that origanizated conventional medicine is is
evil based.

Organized medicine is the devils work????

"Vitamins are Chemicals" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: [email hidden]
(Jan) Date: 5/16/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
id: <[email hidden]>

>Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

>*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is,
>however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
>medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any such
thing.

Quoted message said:

From: JDrew63929 ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: medical
profession View: Complete Thread (81 articles) Original
Format Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 2001-06-
13 18:16:50 PST

<snip for brevity>

I believe that origanizated conventional medicine is is
evil based.

Organized medicine is the devils work????

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "Coleah"
[email hidden] Date: 5/16/04 9:28 PM Eastern
Daylight Time Message-id:
<UyUpc.12753$qA.1571397@attbi_s51>

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine is the devils work????

Quoted message said:

It is, at least according to Revolations.

The prophesy was " ...whole nations will be deceived by
your medicines".

The

Quoted message said:

"your" means Satin. Unfortunately, this is no longer a
prophesy., We are now living that prophesy.

The germ theory of disease is false. All medicines ( drugs
) are poisons. We cannot poison the sick into getting
well. We cannot vaccinate and prevent any disease.

The list could go on.

Look at modern ( Western medicne ) as a religion. The
hospitals are their temples. The doctors are the high
priests. The nurses are the

priestesses.

Quoted message said:

The drugs are their sacraments. The immunizations the
rights of puberty.

The

Quoted message said:

surgeries are the blood sacrifices. And to what God might
we be honoring

by

Quoted message said:

this deception? The sign on the door tells it all...the
sign of the snake...the signature

of

Quoted message said:

Satin.

DrC PhD

======================

Oh....Dear.....God.

When I responded to Jan's quote, "Organized medicine is the
devils work????" I didn't realize there was an organized
group of health alternative people ("alties"😉 with such a
detailed outline of their functioning thought about where
they come from. No wonder Jan see's evil, liars and Satan
everywhere that 'normal' people are.

The statement (above) "We cannot vaccinate and prevent any
disease." was especially frightening. Tell that to my sister
who contracted Polio before the vaccine was developed.

Vaccinations are out, but drinking urine is in........

Oh....Dear....God.

"Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:%q7qc.67496$536.10982454@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040517122421.01198.00001473@mb-
m14.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "Coleah"
[email hidden] Date: 5/16/04 9:28 PM Eastern
Daylight Time Message-id:
<UyUpc.12753$qA.1571397@attbi_s51>

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine is the devils work????

Quoted message said:

It is, at least according to Revolations.

The prophesy was " ...whole nations will be deceived by
your medicines".

The

Quoted message said:

"your" means Satin. Unfortunately, this is no longer a
prophesy., We are now living that prophesy.

The germ theory of disease is false. All medicines (
drugs ) are poisons. We cannot poison the sick into
getting well. We cannot vaccinate and prevent any
disease.

The list could go on.

Look at modern ( Western medicne ) as a religion. The
hospitals are

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

temples. The doctors are the high priests. The nurses
are the

priestesses.

Quoted message said:

The drugs are their sacraments. The immunizations the
rights of

puberty.

Quoted message said:

The

Quoted message said:

surgeries are the blood sacrifices. And to what God
might we be

honoring

Quoted message said:

by

Quoted message said:

this deception? The sign on the door tells it all...the
sign of the snake...the

signature

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

Satin.

DrC PhD

======================

Oh....Dear.....God.

When I responded to Jan's quote, "Organized medicine is
the devils work????" I didn't realize there was an
organized group of health alternative people ("alties"😉
with such a detailed outline of their functioning

thought

Quoted message said:

about where they come from. No wonder Jan see's evil,
liars and Satan

everywhere

Quoted message said:

that 'normal' people are.

The statement (above) "We cannot vaccinate and prevent any
disease." was especially frightening. Tell that to my
sister who contracted Polio

before

Quoted message said:

the vaccine was developed.

Vaccinations are out, but drinking urine is in........

Oh....Dear....God.

The truth is stranger than fiction. No one can make these
things up.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

(That can be turned around and applied to you)

Wrong. I don't hate "alternative medicine." Indeed, I
occasionally even recommend one or two "alt" treatments to
my patients.

Quoted message said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:orac-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <20040516171742.08439.00001378@mb-

m10.aol.com said:

>Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors"

vs making things up.

Everyone of the *gang* does it, starting with Orac.

>*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She
>is, however, so blinded by her hatred of conventional
>medicine*

Orac made that up as he can't post any proof of any
such thing.

Your whole posting history is proof of how blinded you
are by your hatred of conventional medicine.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

Made complete sense to me and I only read it once.

"Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:apcqc.70789$iF6.5946477@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040517184052.07672.00001547@mb-
m07.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-
May 17, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t 05-17-
[email hidden] Date: 5/17/04 2:40 PM Eastern
Daylight Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

>
> The statement (above) "We cannot vaccinate and
> prevent any disease."

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> especially frightening. Tell that to my sister who
> contracted Polio
before
> the vaccine was developed.

And just how many have contracted aseptic meningitis (
exactly the same symptomology as polio ) after the CDC
changed the rules of diagnosis to

get rid

Quoted message said:

of polio since they now had a vaccine for all you dumb
clucks who

worship

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

the shine of the guys in the white coats?

You really are very gullible.

DrC PhD

Your run-on sentence flipped, flopped and twisted to the
point of not

making

Quoted message said:

sense.

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "Coleah"
[email hidden] Date: 5/16/04 9:28 PM Eastern Daylight
Time Message-id: <UyUpc.12753$qA.1571397@attbi_s51>

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine is the devils work????

It is, at least according to Revolations.

The prophesy was " ...whole nations will be deceived by
your medicines". The "your" means Satin.

Why pick on a harmless fabric?

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, this is no longer a prophesy., We are now
living that prophesy.

The germ theory of disease is false. All medicines ( drugs
) are poisons. We cannot poison the sick into getting well.
We cannot vaccinate and prevent any disease.

The list could go on.

Yes, it could, since every one of your statements is false.
We could add things like:

The moon is made of green cheese. Space aliens are landing
on the White House lawn. Chuck is not crazy.

Quoted message said:

Look at modern ( Western medicne ) as a religion. The
hospitals are their temples. The doctors are the high
priests. The nurses are the priestesses. The drugs are
their sacraments. The immunizations the rights of puberty.
The surgeries are the blood sacrifices. And to what God
might we be honoring by this deception?

Projection on Chuck's part -- he's a religious nut, so he
decides everyone else must be one too.

Quoted message said:

The sign on the door tells it all...the sign of the
snake...the signature of Satin.

There he goes, attacking fabrics again.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: "lies" vs "errors" From: "Coleah"
[email hidden] Date: 5/16/04 9:28 PM Eastern
Daylight Time Message-id:
<UyUpc.12753$qA.1571397@attbi_s51>

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine is the devils work????

It is, at least according to Revolations.

The prophesy was " ...whole nations will be deceived by
your medicines".

The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"your" means Satin.

Quoted message said:

Why pick on a harmless fabric?

I wondered ..... a real "PhD" who would spelled so,
"creatively" when talking about "Revolations" and "Satin".

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 02:59:31 GMT, [email hidden]

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

If she had read it, we'd all be talking about
arrhythmias and cardiomyopathy (Elavil), tumorigenic
potential and sudden unexplained death (Neurontin), and
how her EVIL MD is trying to poison her.

My MD is not evil. I would not be taking drugs if I had a
choice,

Jan does not have a choice?? Who is *forcing* Jan to take
these medications?? If she wants to she can choose to stop
taking them. No one is putting a gun to her head. Jan
*chooses* to take these medications because they make her
feel better. But Jan ridicules children who take Ritalin
even though it makes them feel better. She is such a
hypocrite.

Quoted message said:

as a matter of fact, I don't believe I would have had a
weakended immune sytstem

which led

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the problem of the mercury amalgams leaking and
causing both mercury poisoning and PN had it NOT been for
the fact that I was on many drugs

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years for my headache. These drugs are WHAT wiped out my
immune system.

Then you are fair game to most anything.

So why on earth is Jan taking medications which are just
going to cover up her real problem and give her side
effects? Has not Jan learned that the medications are just
going to cause her problems?? She must be addicted to
these medications if she cannot stop them??

Some day Jan will blame Elavil and Neurontin for wiping
out her immune system or causing some other health
problem. Then she will blame her doctors for not warning
her about the side effects of Elavil and Neurontin. Some
things are so predicable.

Aloha,

Rich

======================

Elavil Uses Elavil is prescribed for the relief of symptoms
of mental depression. It is a member of the group of drugs
called tricyclic antidepressants. Some doctors also
prescribe Elavil to treat bulimia (an eating disorder), to
control chronic pain, to prevent migraine headaches, and to
treat a pathological weeping and laughing syndrome
associated with multiple sclerosis.

Neurontin Uses This medicine is used to manage pain in the
area affected by herpes zoster after the disease has been
treated. It is also used as part of overall therapy for
the treatment of partial seizures in patients over 12
years of age with epilepsy and as part of overall therapy
for the treatment of partial seizures in patients 3 to 12
years of age.

Says Orac who is out to demonise alt med. Sooner or later
the truth is going to come out and people like you are going
to take a big hit. Anth

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:orac-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Anth"

Quoted message said:

(That can be turned around and applied to you)

Wrong. I don't hate "alternative medicine." Indeed, I
occasionally even recommend one or two "alt" treatments to
my patients.

Says Rich who thinks niacin causes hepatoxicity and the
flush reaction with niacin is a sign of toxicity. Anth

<Rich.@.> wrote in message news:40ab7e0e.89957359@news-
server.hawaii.rr.com...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 02:59:31 GMT, [email hidden]

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

If she had read it, we'd all be talking about
arrhythmias and cardiomyopathy (Elavil), tumorigenic
potential and sudden unexplained death (Neurontin), and
how her EVIL MD is trying to poison her.

My MD is not evil. I would not be taking drugs if I had a
choice,

Jan does not have a choice?? Who is *forcing* Jan to take
these medications?? If she wants to she can choose to stop
taking them. No one is putting a gun to her head. Jan
*chooses* to take these medications because they make her
feel better. But Jan ridicules children who take Ritalin
even though it makes them feel better. She is such a
hypocrite.

Quoted message said:

as a matter of fact, I don't believe I would have had a
weakended immune sytstem

which led

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the problem of the mercury amalgams leaking and
causing both mercury poisoning and PN had it NOT been for
the fact that I was on many drugs

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years for my headache. These drugs are WHAT wiped out my
immune system.

Then you are fair game to most anything.

So why on earth is Jan taking medications which are just
going to cover up her real problem and give her side
effects? Has not Jan learned that the medications are just
going to cause her problems?? She must be addicted to
these medications if she cannot stop them??

Some day Jan will blame Elavil and Neurontin for wiping
out her immune system or causing some other health
problem. Then she will blame her doctors for not warning
her about the side effects of Elavil and Neurontin. Some
things are so predicable.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

(DRCEEPHD) said:

It is, at least according to Revolations.

Is that like RPM ?

Quoted message said:

The prophesy was " ...whole nations will be deceived by
your medicines". The "your" means Satin.

What do sheets have to do with it ?
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
[email hidden]

Orac said:

(Of course, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by
"organized medicine."

<cutting to the chase>.

It is apparent that Jan invokes "organized medicine" or
"evil organized medicine" whenever someone says something
that is endorsed by conventional medicine and Jan disagrees
with it. You see giving Ritalin to any child in any case
would invoke charges of evil organized medicine because Jan
is against it. Jan will also invoke organized medicine when
someone takes a prescription medication that Jan deems to be
only covering up the problem and not dealing with the root
of the problem.

Of course when Jan Drew takes Elavil and Neurontin for her
peripheral neuropathy that is fine even though neither is
dealing with the root of the problem and both are just
covering up her symptoms and taking away her pain. Jan can't
explain why on earth she is taking medication that is just
covering up her problem, causing side effects, and leaving
her open to problems in the future. After all Jan blames
pharmaceuticals for causing her health problems in the first
place. Now she voluntarily takes more medications that do
nothing but cover up her pain. You see it is OK for Jan Drew
to take meds that help her feel better. When others do it
she often ridicules them for taking something that covers up
the problem and does not deal with the root of the problem.
Hypocrisy at its finest.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Your pit bull-like defense of Hulda Clark against any
criticism is a prime example.

Defense?? Jan *actively* promotes this fraud by posting
cites to her quack remedies like the zapper and cleanses.

Quoted message said:

So, yes, I stand by my observation. I don't really care if
it pisses you off or not. Your hatred of conventional
medicine and therapies has blinded you to even the most
obvious quacks among "alternative" practitioners. Quacks
like Hulda Clark.

Jan Drew is a shill, plain and simple.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

Anth said:

Says Rich who thinks niacin causes hepatoxicity and the
flush reaction with niacin is a sign of toxicity. Anth

Thanx for your important and relevant contribution to this
thread Anth.

It appears as if Anth is adopting the tactics of Jan Drew;
instead of discussing the topic, divert attention by making
a personal attack. Speaking of personal attacks, Jan Drew
will soon be along to do her thing. Just watch.

google.comurlOpen ↗
m.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi%3Fcmd%3DRetrieve%26db%3DPubMed%-
26list_uids%3D8284714%26dopt%3DAbstract&e=7620

crackpots.orgpurif3.htmOpen ↗

pdrhealth.comnutsupdruOpen ↗
gs/nia_0184.shtml

Watch how Anth completely rejects the above links which
document the toxic effects of Niacin including flushing
(mild toxicity) and hepatotoxicity (more serious toxicity).
Anyone interested in the toxic effects of Niacin can do a
search with "niacin" and "hepatotoxicity".

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message news:40ab7e0e.89957359@news-
server.hawaii.rr.com...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 02:59:31 GMT, [email hidden]

(Jan) said:

>If she had read it, we'd all be talking about
>arrhythmias and cardiomyopathy (Elavil), tumorigenic
>potential and sudden unexplained death (Neurontin), and
>how her EVIL MD is trying to poison her.

My MD is not evil. I would not be taking drugs if I had
a choice,

Jan does not have a choice?? Who is *forcing* Jan to take
these medications?? If she wants to she can choose to
stop taking them. No one is putting a gun to her head.
Jan *chooses* to take these medications because they make
her feel better. But Jan ridicules children who take
Ritalin even though it makes them feel better. She is
such a hypocrite.

Quoted message said:

as a matter of fact, I don't believe I would have had a
weakended immune sytstem

which led

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the problem of the mercury amalgams leaking and
causing both mercury poisoning and PN had it NOT been
for the fact that I was on many drugs

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years for my headache. These drugs are WHAT wiped out my
immune system.

Then you are fair game to most anything.

So why on earth is Jan taking medications which are just
going to cover up her real problem and give her side
effects? Has not Jan learned that the medications are
just going to cause her problems?? She must be addicted
to these medications if she cannot stop them??

Some day Jan will blame Elavil and Neurontin for wiping
out her immune system or causing some other health
problem. Then she will blame her doctors for not warning
her about the side effects of Elavil and Neurontin. Some
things are so predicable.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance