Levi's Training

ric_stern/RST said:

I dunno whether landis was sprinting full on or not, but he may have only taken 3rd place and gotten the 8 seconds bonus on purpose -- this way it's potentially possible for Dessel to gain a few bonus seconds and retake the maillot jaune. This relieves the pressure on the Phonak team (who aren't the strongest) and gives AG2R some spotlight.

Alternatively, he may have been temporarily gassed as a result of leading much of the last couple of kilometers. Still, though, I thought it was interesting that somebody who can* reportedly generate 1350 W for 5 s (I believe that was the number) should get dusted in a sprint by two climber-types.

*Or, rather, could...I suspect that the timing of this measurement has a lot to do with it.

ric_stern/RST said:

I dunno whether landis was sprinting full on or not, but he may have only taken 3rd place and gotten the 8 seconds bonus on purpose -- this way it's potentially possible for Dessel to gain a few bonus seconds and retake the maillot jaune. This relieves the pressure on the Phonak team (who aren't the strongest) and gives AG2R some spotlight.

ric

Landis said after the race that he knew had no hopes of beating Menchov in the sprint. He said he wanted to get time on rivals and that's why he rode on the front for most of the last few k's. He also said he would not have ridden easier to avoid getting the yellow (along with the obligation to protect it). He expressed confidence in his team to defend it as neeeded and said he would like to keep it all the way to the end.

acoggan said:

Alternatively, he may have been temporarily gassed as a result of leading much of the last couple of kilometers. Still, though, I thought it was interesting that somebody who can* reportedly generate 1350 W for 5 s (I believe that was the number) should get dusted in a sprint by two climber-types.

*Or, rather, could...I suspect that the timing of this measurement has a lot to do with it.

the number i heard was 1200 W, but i may have misheard. (not that it really matters).

WarrenG said:

Landis said after the race that he knew had no hopes of beating Menchov in the sprint.

i don't get time to listen to the interviews 🙁

Quoted post said:

He said he wanted to get time on rivals and that's why he rode on the front for most of the last few k's. He also said he would not have ridden easier to avoid getting the yellow (along with the obligation to protect it). He expressed confidence in his team to defend it as neeeded and said he would like to keep it all the way to the end.

i hope so. he's one of my faves to win.

ric_stern/RST said:

i hope so. he's one of my faves to win.

Phil Ligget has said, "Never underestimate the heart of a man once he sees the finish line."

Might be Floyd's last race, ever.

acoggan said:

Still, though, I thought it was interesting that somebody who can* reportedly generate 1350 W for 5 s (I believe that was the number) should get dusted in a sprint by two climber-types.

They also said he was reluctant to sprint much for fear of damaging his hip, and there really wasn't much at stake in a sprint against those two.

WarrenG said:

You think Levi is fully-recovered already from being ill?

No, not at all. I was impressed that he made the final 3, but just thought he looked the weakest of those 3, for whatever reason.

WarrenG said:

Levi needed some of my sprint today. Maybe Levi should spend more time doing 20" sprints up hill! (Hopefully, this sharing of information will not offend Hamish.)

Looked like a tactical mistake to me, and that he got caught out by Menchov's jump. He probably shouldn't have been on Floyd's wheel if he were that set on taking the stage.

ric_stern/RST said:

the number i heard was 1200 W, but i may have misheard. (not that it really matters).

That's the number I heard as well--and I remember thinking "ok, so he's NOT a sprinter" since *I* can essentially do 1200 watts for 5 seconds (albeit not at the end of a six-hour bike ride). I would surmise Floyd hasn't practiced 10 second sprints in years!

That said, I agree with you that it doesn't matter. A win offered very little tactical advantage to Floyd and he admitted in the post-race interview that he had no thought of winning the stage when it came down to a sprint. He also didn't feel as though there was any reason to do all of the work and ride away from those guys. Frankly, I agree. He knew he had put time into Kloden and, frankly, getting the Yellow today only means that his team has to work that much harder during the next couple of days.

--Steve

frenchyge said:

Looked like a tactical mistake to me, and that he got caught out by Menchov's jump. He probably shouldn't have been on Floyd's wheel if he were that set on taking the stage.

Levi was in front of Menchov and Floyd heading to the last corner but Menchov jumped past Levi on the inside approach to the last turn. I doubt he gets much practice with that sort of thing. Or maybe Menchov yelled, "Inside!" like a Cat 5.

WarrenG said:

Levi was in front of Menchov and Floyd heading to the last corner but Menchov jumped past Levi on the inside approach to the last turn. I doubt he gets much practice with that sort of thing. Or maybe Menchov yelled, "Inside!" like a Cat 5.

Heh. I guess he should have done the 'out of the saddle - looking over shoulder thing' or one of those other tricks that you sprinters learn.

I wonder how Levi's 5sec W/kg number matches up with Menchov's. :p

acoggan said:

I'm not sure if Landis has quite the personality for such theatrics...remember how he was apparently satisfied to just shadow Danielson to the top of Mt. Bald? A wise tactical decision, no doubt, but based on that (and the comments of Lim about "being consistent", etc.) I wouldn't expect him throw in any scintillating attacks.

The other factor to consider is that Landis doesn't appear to have a really strong team at his disposal, as Armstrong did. Riding a bit defensively therefore may be necessary, to the point that perhaps he didn't even want to try to take the yellow jersey just yet.

FYI.. it's Brasstown Bald.. and it's very nasty

frenchyge said:

Heh. I guess he should have done the 'out of the saddle - looking over shoulder thing' or one of those other tricks that you sprinters learn.p

You mean hook him into the barriers?

Over the shoulder is okay. When Steven Alfred is out of the saddle and looking at me (my front wheel) from under his leg or under his arm, THAT's a sprinter thing. :-)

ALWAYS protect the inside of the last corner. Levi said he was surprised at Menchov's kick to get by on his inside.

Mansmind said:

FYI.. it's Brasstown Bald

Thanks...I knew Mt. Bald didn't seem right as I typed it, but Mt. Baldy seemed worse! 😄

ric_stern/RST said:

the number i heard was 1200 W, but i may have misheard. (not that it really matters).

I found the quote I had in mind...it was in the NYT article:

"In 2005, Landis could maximally produce 900 watts for five seconds. By this spring, he could push 1,250 watts, a 39 percent boost."

So, applying the the "Let's Make a Deal!" rule that the winner is the one who guesses closest w/o going over, you win. 😄

Anyway, while the exact value doesn't matter, I find the data rather intriguing, especially in light of comments that Landis trained less this off-season.

acoggan said:

I found the quote I had in mind...it was in the NYT article:

"In 2005, Landis could maximally produce 900 watts for five seconds. By this spring, he could push 1,250 watts, a 39 percent boost."

So, applying the the "Let's Make a Deal!" rule that the winner is the one who guesses closest w/o going over, you win. 😄

Anyway, while the exact value doesn't matter, I find the data rather intriguing, especially in light of comments that Landis trained less this off-season.

Paul Shewen said 1200 watts during yesterday's OLN broadcast, although he didn't say for how many seconds, just "in a sprint".

That his sprint power went up with "less" training this winter doesn't surprise me at all. It depends on what training was done. More rest and less endurance training for his fast fibers would probably help improve his sprint power too.

It is interesting to see the intervals Max comes up with for me at this time of year that reduce the endurance training of some fast fibers (to maintain or improve high peak power) while still working on improving threshold and supra-threshold ability.

It is probably common that in a 3-4 year plan the rider would do less volume, more intensity, and with maybe more rest during the last year of preparation for the best performance (so far) in a Grand Tour or series of events. Sounds like Floyd did similarly.

acoggan said:

I found the quote I had in mind...it was in the NYT article:

"In 2005, Landis could maximally produce 900 watts for five seconds. By this spring, he could push 1,250 watts, a 39 percent boost."

So, applying the the "Let's Make a Deal!" rule that the winner is the one who guesses closest w/o going over, you win. 😄

Anyway, while the exact value doesn't matter, I find the data rather intriguing, especially in light of comments that Landis trained less this off-season.

I read somewhere that he got the improvement by attacking the last 20 seconds in his hill climb training.. i.e. 20 second hill sprints.

Mansmind said:

I read somewhere that he got the improvement by attacking the last 20 seconds in his hill climb training.. i.e. 20 second hill sprints.

I can't imagine how that would help him or anyone else.

WarrenG said:

I can't imagine how that would help him or anyone else.

I can, but regardless... that is at least "reportedly" what he was/is doing. The idea was that he didn't have the "burst" to create a break quickly and/or close one quickly. He's more of a continual power rider (which from my observation is true).

By practicing these jumps/sprints he raised 5 sec? (I believe this was the reference) from 900 to 1250 watts.

"At home in Murrieta, California, Landis began to finish each climb with a prolonged breakneck sprint. He called it Steep Hill Interval Training—a pleasing acronym—and by winter the numbers began to come. He found he could push 1,250 watts for five seconds, as opposed to 900 the previous year—a 39 percent improvement. Which means that on a steep, Tour-type climb, New Floyd will ride 3.7 miles per hour faster than Old Floyd for those five seconds, enough to open a gap of eight meters."

I don't know where I got the 20 seconds.. but here is the excerpt. The article link is below.

outside.away.comtour de france 2006 floyd landis 1.htmlOpen ↗

John

WarrenG said:

I can't imagine how that would help him or anyone else.

Not that I want to argue, you know these things better than I do, but I was a bit surprised by your answer.

Why would including the sprint aspect at the end of some reps in a hill training session be useless for improving his max power over short durations ?