Levi?

Quoted message said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=live/tour067:

"Christian Henn, directeur sportif at Gerolsteiner, confirms that
Leipheimer has not had a mechanical problem. He doesn't know why
Leipheimer's performance is so low today.

"16:50 CEST
Leipheimer has lost 5.01 minutes in the finish. He stops pedalling
even before the line, and seems extremely disappointed. This is
clearly not his day..."

--
Tony Rall

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

If you're going to ask that question, you have also to ask the
question 'what happened to Discovery?' They have several noted time
triallists, yet their best man today was Paolo Savoldelli at 19, 2
minutes 12 seconds off the pace. Even more noticeable, Hincapie came in
24th, 2 minutes 42 off the pace. Contrast TMo, who had six riders faster
than Savoldelli, Gerolsteiner and CSC both with two. To put that in
perspective, TMo started with only seven riders, so only one of TMo's
riders was slower than the fastest Discovery rider.

I predicted that Discovery would do nothing notable this Tour, and it
looks like the raw prediction was right (modulo Hincapie's day in
yellow). But my reason was diametrically wrong. I hypothesised that they
had too many chiefs and not enough indians, and the chiefs wouldn't work
for one another. But on today's result it looks like they all indians
and haven't any chiefs.

Now, of course, time trial is not José Azevedo's discipline. He may do
well when they hit the mountains. But the Giro proved Savoldelli can't
climb alongside, for example, Sastre and Simeoni.

It's as if Discovery are not getting magic sprinkles on their morning
cornflakes. And as if TMo either never did or still are.

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

I'd say that it depends on the quality of the helpers to a degree. Obviously more
is better but a few good ones can be quite effective. I don't recall Sastre being in
the position of team leader very much so that could have a negative effect but I
imagine Riis will do his job as DS and make it work. Sastre is a very good climber
though, so that bodes well for him.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

For those so compelled, keep your "he sucks" answers to yourself. I'm
looking for info, not starting a Levi-bashing thread.

Fred

The only mentioned words I've seen thus far from Leipheimer is the following
from Velonews:

"It was the worst time trial of my life," said Leipheimer after a
performance that clearly showed a lack of rhythm, speed and strength.

Simon Brooke said:

Now, of course, time trial is not José Azevedo's discipline. He may do
well when they hit the mountains. But the Giro proved Savoldelli can't
climb alongside, for example, Sastre and Simeoni.

Dumbass -

It was Basso and Simoni.

The year before Savoldelli was capable, but this year he had the
allergy problems.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

I'd say that it depends on the quality of the helpers to a degree. Obviously more
is better but a few good ones can be quite effective. I don't recall Sastre being in
the position of team leader very much so that could have a negative effect but I
imagine Riis will do his job as DS and make it work. Sastre is a very good climber
though, so that bodes well for him.

Dumbass -

He has Sastre confused w/ Basso. Sastre finished an hour and a half
down in the Giro this year (working for Basso).

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

If you're going to ask that question, you have also to ask the
question 'what happened to Discovery?' They have several noted time
triallists, yet their best man today was Paolo Savoldelli at 19, 2
minutes 12 seconds off the pace. Even more noticeable, Hincapie came in
24th, 2 minutes 42 off the pace. Contrast TMo, who had six riders faster
than Savoldelli, Gerolsteiner and CSC both with two. To put that in
perspective, TMo started with only seven riders, so only one of TMo's
riders was slower than the fastest Discovery rider.

I predicted that Discovery would do nothing notable this Tour, and it
looks like the raw prediction was right (modulo Hincapie's day in
yellow). But my reason was diametrically wrong. I hypothesised that they
had too many chiefs and not enough indians, and the chiefs wouldn't work
for one another. But on today's result it looks like they all indians
and haven't any chiefs.

Now, of course, time trial is not José Azevedo's discipline. He may do
well when they hit the mountains. But the Giro proved Savoldelli can't
climb alongside, for example, Sastre and Simeoni.

It's as if Discovery are not getting magic sprinkles on their morning
cornflakes. And as if TMo either never did or still are.

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

Actually, I DON"T have to ask that question. I was not looking for
info on what you obviously feel was the self-destruction of the
Discovery Team. I was merely looking for info on Levi, as he not only
rode a bad TT, he rode an atrocious TT. Considering that he's
generally pretty good at it, I was curious if he was sick or something.

But, hey... thanks for trying to turn the thread to your favorite
topic.

Fred

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

If you're going to ask that question, you have also to ask the
question 'what happened to Discovery?' They have several noted time
triallists, yet their best man today was Paolo Savoldelli at 19, 2
minutes 12 seconds off the pace. Even more noticeable, Hincapie came in
24th, 2 minutes 42 off the pace. Contrast TMo, who had six riders faster
than Savoldelli, Gerolsteiner and CSC both with two. To put that in
perspective, TMo started with only seven riders, so only one of TMo's
riders was slower than the fastest Discovery rider.

I predicted that Discovery would do nothing notable this Tour, and it
looks like the raw prediction was right (modulo Hincapie's day in
yellow). But my reason was diametrically wrong. I hypothesised that they
had too many chiefs and not enough indians, and the chiefs wouldn't work
for one another. But on today's result it looks like they all indians
and haven't any chiefs.

Now, of course, time trial is not José Azevedo's discipline. He may do
well when they hit the mountains. But the Giro proved Savoldelli can't
climb alongside, for example, Sastre and Simeoni.

It's as if Discovery are not getting magic sprinkles on their morning
cornflakes. And as if TMo either never did or still are.

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

Maybe they're afraid to top up after the rain in Spain. Stay tuned. We'll
know more on Thursday.

in message <[email hidden]>,

Kurgan Gringioni (') said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre
did all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from
the Giro he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the
mountains with only five supporters?

I'd say that it depends on the quality of the helpers to a degree.
Obviously more
is better but a few good ones can be quite effective. I don't recall
Sastre being in the position of team leader very much so that could
have a negative effect but I imagine Riis will do his job as DS and
make it work. Sastre is a very good climber though, so that bodes well
for him.

He has Sastre confused w/ Basso. Sastre finished an hour and a half
down in the Giro this year (working for Basso).

I don't have, and I don't imagine Bjarne does either. Sastre (and
Piepoli, but he's not riding in this Tour) were able to stay with Basso
on the climbs in the Giro. No-one else could. Sastre finished down the
rankings, because his job was to domestique and not to be lead rider.
But a mountain super-domestique needs to be at the same level as a
climber as his leader. Sastre was; and he's good enough contre la montre
that he's not going to lose chunks of time in the remaining one. As CSC
leader, he's good enough to get to Paris in yellow; and he has a wily
enough DS. What bothers me is that the team no longer has strength in
depth.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03

I'll bet a $100 the last person Levi will blame is his coach. It was
interesting to watch Carmichael squirm and distance himself as fast as
he could from any responsibility for Lance's 'poor' TT showing in '03.
I say interesting because he couldn't have predicted it, nor should he
have been blamed, but man did he try to talk about all sorts of reasons
other than himself.

My guess is that Levi had a supremely bad day on a terrible day to have
a bad day. He may have dug a little too deep in the DL and might even
be on the downward slump of form. I predict he'll come back a little,
maybe with a couple top 10's in Mtn stages, but only if he's not
relegated to domestique.

CH

Quoted message said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

For those so compelled, keep your "he sucks" answers to yourself. I'm
looking for info, not starting a Levi-bashing thread.

Fred

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

If you're going to ask that question, you have also to ask the
question 'what happened to Discovery?' They have several noted time
triallists, yet their best man today was Paolo Savoldelli at 19, 2
minutes 12 seconds off the pace. Even more noticeable, Hincapie came in
24th, 2 minutes 42 off the pace. Contrast TMo, who had six riders faster
than Savoldelli, Gerolsteiner and CSC both with two. To put that in
perspective, TMo started with only seven riders, so only one of TMo's
riders was slower than the fastest Discovery rider.

I predicted that Discovery would do nothing notable this Tour, and it
looks like the raw prediction was right (modulo Hincapie's day in
yellow). But my reason was diametrically wrong. I hypothesised that they
had too many chiefs and not enough indians, and the chiefs wouldn't work
for one another. But on today's result it looks like they all indians
and haven't any chiefs.

Now, of course, time trial is not José Azevedo's discipline. He may do
well when they hit the mountains. But the Giro proved Savoldelli can't
climb alongside, for example, Sastre and Simeoni.

It's as if Discovery are not getting magic sprinkles on their morning
cornflakes. And as if TMo either never did or still are.

But if today was bad for Discovery, it was worse for CSC. Basso out
through Operacion Puerto, Stuart O'Grady not in any position to
contribute, and now Bobby Julich DNF with an injured hand. Sastre did
all right - he finished ahead of Savoldelli, and we know from the Giro
he can outclimb Savoldelli - but can he manage in the mountains with
only five supporters?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

I think what has happened to all the teams is the slow pace of the 1st
week; they haven't pushed themselves as in previous years and their
systems are winding down from the tour build up- it could be seriously
hard if not impossible to reverse that. I reckon someone knowledgable
about peaking would be able to better comment.

In the tour of California, after winning the prologue (which was steep
climbing), Levi did a disappointing TT a few days later in San Jose (flat,
with a small hill). He blamed it on the fact that it was windy and he was
too small to have any power in the wind... that didn't give me much hope
that he'd do a good TT in the Tour.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

For those so compelled, keep your "he sucks" answers to yourself. I'm
looking for info, not starting a Levi-bashing thread.

Fred

Ii posit the "Spotted [censored] Gambit". Levi's goal is the climber's
jersey. Floyd et al will let him go now. He'll be in dots Wednesday night.

in 512482 20060708 220343 'Kurgan Gringioni said:

He has Sastre confused w/ Basso. Sastre finished an hour and a half
down in the Giro this year (working for Basso).

Right, all Sastre's effort was directed at helping Basso (at which he was very successful)
rather than improving his GC position. It will be quite different if he's working for himself.

On 7/8/06 3:08 PM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

Actually, I DON"T have to ask that question. I was not looking for
info on what you obviously feel was the self-destruction of the
Discovery Team. I was merely looking for info on Levi, as he not only
rode a bad TT, he rode an atrocious TT. Considering that he's
generally pretty good at it, I was curious if he was sick or something.

In his interview with Frankie Andreu this morning, he indicated that he
didn't want to make excuses, but that it just didn't work out. Indicated
that he hasn't been feeling great, and is just concentrating on feeling
better, and hopes he can do something in the mountains.

B. Lafferty said:

Maybe they're afraid to top up after the rain in Spain. Stay tuned. We'll
know more on Thursday.

Obviously this demands consideration. Puerto has obviously rather
shaken up the hierarchy, even among those who have not been identified. Clearly
one can't accuse any individual, but with such shocking results in the time trial,
both at the top and the middle, the chemical element is the most obvious factor.

T-Mobile had six in the top sixteen.... amazing.

Dan Connelly said:

Obviously this demands consideration. Puerto has obviously rather
shaken up the hierarchy, even among those who have not been identified. Clearly
one can't accuse any individual, but with such shocking results in the time trial,
both at the top and the middle, the chemical element is the most obvious factor.

T-Mobile had six in the top sixteen.... amazing.

So you're saying the rest of T-Mobile are clean. Or they're better at not
leaving any blood soaked tracks ?

Dan Connelly said:

B. Lafferty said:

Maybe they're afraid to top up after the rain in Spain. Stay tuned.
We'll know more on Thursday.

Obviously this demands consideration. Puerto has obviously rather
shaken up the hierarchy, even among those who have not been identified.
Clearly
one can't accuse any individual, but with such shocking results in the
time trial,
both at the top and the middle, the chemical element is the most obvious
factor.

T-Mobile had six in the top sixteen.... amazing.

What seems to differentiate T-Mobile from many of the other sponsors is
that they are quite involved with the team, far more than just handing
over the logos to print on the jerseys and sending over the money.
TMO/Telekom have a long history with cycling, there are regular rides
for employees and sometimes someone from the team comes to join.

With their very hard anti-doping stance they are the least probable IMO
to be content with plausible deniability when it comes to the training
regimen of the team's riders. They fired Pevenage today, btw.

Maybe the often criticized difference in the riders' form when they
join/leave TMO from/to another team has other reasons? Maybe the team
training in TMO is not worse than in other teams just more "clean"?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I have to ask: has anyone heard anything
legit to explain Leipheimer's performance today? Has his team released
any interviews or has there been any explanations offered?

For those so compelled, keep your "he sucks" answers to yourself. I'm
looking for info, not starting a Levi-bashing thread.

Fred

Here's an inteview with Levi and Christian Penn. It appears he's
not feeling 100 percent right now.

http://tinyurl.com/n8uaz